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United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

United CFO Rainey Implies Certain Elites were "Over Entitled".

Old Jun 16, 2012, 8:26 pm
  #1486  
 
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Originally Posted by sxf24
I never said the feedback from this community should be ignored.

I don't think a reasonable person would expect any company to use an anonymous subset of self-described "best customers" who are focused on finding loopholes in the company's programs and policies as its primary source of feedback.
Any customer feedback is good feedback if you are customer centric.

As for this site being anonymous, welcome to the internet and the world of social media. Maybe the State of New Jersey will lead the way in getting that changed. Until then though......I am one of United's best customers.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 8:44 pm
  #1487  
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Originally Posted by sxf24

I don't think a reasonable person would expect any company to use an anonymous subset of self-described "best customers" who are focused on finding loopholes in the company's programs and policies as its primary source of feedback.
I agree wholeheartedly with the other replies to your post. I'll keep my reply to this: It is both more respectful and far more productive to confine your points to the matters about which we have legitimate disagreements, rather than impugning the attitudes, motives and actions of your fellow members of the FT community.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 9:04 pm
  #1488  
 
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Originally Posted by Thunderroad
I agree wholeheartedly with the other replies to your post. I'll keep my reply to this: It is both more respectful and far more productive to confine your points to the matters about which we have legitimate disagreements, rather than impugning the attitudes, motives and actions of your fellow members of the FT community.
The fact is UA (or any smart airline) for that matter has far more information on who are really their best customers then what anyone claims on sites like these. It's easy for them to track these days and both UA and CO have had programs in place for years now to tack it. The most profitable customers are often not those who travel the most. It's all about what you spend.

A big part of what sites like FT have been about is how to get status and top teir status ( and the benfits) for the fewest dollars spent. We all act in self best interest so it's a valid use of FT, but clearly it's not what the airlines have in mind with programs. Airlines have wised up to this fact and are acting accordingly and postings that point out loop holes have helped them close these loop holes.

Last edited by grahampros; Jun 16, 2012 at 11:08 pm
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 10:52 pm
  #1489  
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Originally Posted by goodeats21
I disagree that the majority of this community is focused on finding loopholes....maybe limited to those in the "trick it" thread or something.

This member of the community is on here trying to figure out how to make my seat assignments actually stick, why boarding times seem to be at the whim of the GA, and all other manner of inconsistencies in the new world order of UA.
Perhaps loophole is a bit strong. That said, there's nothing wrong with trying (but not expecting) to maximize your benefits for the least possible cost. I just think a lot of the value this community used to provide to other members and to airlines has been lost as the demands and rhetoric become more extreme.
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Old Jun 16, 2012, 11:16 pm
  #1490  
 
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Originally Posted by goodeats21
I recently received a very nice email from the Marriott elite program. They noticed I had not been staying at Marriott properties as often and asked what they could improve to win back my business. This included a very well written, personal follow up email from their staff.

Not once in the communication did they indicate I was "over entitled" for expecting benefits for my loyalty.
True, but I bet you were not at the Bank of America/Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, so most likely they didn't communicate to you that you were over entitled, and I also suspect that you have not received any direct communicaton from UA that said the same.

I'm betting most communication from UA to you has said something quite the opposite, maybe even referring to you as a valued or loyal customer.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:11 am
  #1491  
 
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Originally Posted by sxf24
Since this is a community dedicated to maximizing the benefits of the travel experience and because I don't work for UA, focusing on #1 seems to be appropriate for the situation.

That said, I can't really see UA taking the feedback in this community seriously when considering reasonable improvements to gain customer business.
I have seen the same constant line from you for the last year, and either you are a contrarian by nature or ARE connected directly or indirectly with the CO management. The "denials" of any connection combined with the refusal to ever provide any deals on where your supposed flying experience comes from causes me to think though protest too much...

Originally Posted by ibuyyoufly
I'm shocked. Rainey is that you? That part of your post is enough for any sensible decision maker in the travel business to be "ALL EARS". Whether they do or not, and I believe they do to some degree, is another question.

If they didn't listen to some share of their loyal customers, and this site does provide immediate and free feedback, they might as well shut down the Marketing, Advertising and Customer Loyalty Dept's, Focus Groups, etc, etc, etc.
Well they have lots of sources, UA had Communispace, CO used FT and had DOs. Both paid attention and made adjustments in response to customer feedback. Good (or even mediocre) companies do this.

Originally Posted by UA-NYC
Yeah that doesn't make any sense at all, listening to a sizeable pool of your most profitable, frequent, and loyal customers, many of whom via business or family have a multiplier effect when it comes to booking and influence

I think this is the key thing wrong with sxf24's claim. Folks here are not odd balls (well maybe some of us are) instead we are the "though leaders" We are the folks who others consult, and who take the time to EXPRESS our views. Much like the guy/gal who knows fashion or electronics is the one setting the trends, folks who pay attention to travel have an outsized influence over others buying decisions. SMART businesses spend a bloody fortune trying to reach and influence these "though leaders." Its marketing 101.

Originally Posted by sxf24
Today, much of the feedback on this forum is contradictory, petty, or counter-productive. An airline can certainly get a sense of what a small subset of customers think, but there are much more productive and effective ways to determine what your best customers want.

This community is populated by a small subset of anonymous customers.
Well if the financial metrics this year were good, then you would be right!

I'm sure you saw that United has great PRASM, and great yield! Under the wise leader UA has regained the lead, leapfrogged AA, UA, DL (and SW) in yield and PRASM and the grown curve on these is ever upwards. They are widening the lead! So exciting!

Since we all see that UA has nothing to be concerned about, they can simply forget all the ill informed complaints. Its clear that high yield traffic loves the changes and is flocking to UA which is at a competitive advantage, so no need to see what might be improved.

Originally Posted by sxf24
I never said the feedback from this community should be ignored.

I don't think a reasonable person would expect any company to use an anonymous subset of self-described "best customers" who are focused on finding loopholes in the company's programs and policies as its primary source of feedback.
I'm nor sure about the "loopholes" part, more like information on how the system operates. regardless, if the information here is CONSISTENT with other sources, then yes, it ought to be looked at.

But since we all know UA is doing SO, SO, SO well in its financial metrics, they can go on taking your sage advise and just ignoring the whining! Better yet, they ought to give the fearless leader jeff more money, clearly you would agree that $13.4M is nowhere near enough!
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:23 am
  #1492  
 
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Originally Posted by fastair
True, but I bet you were not at the Bank of America/Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, so most likely they didn't communicate to you that you were over entitled, and I also suspect that you have not received any direct communicaton from UA that said the same.

I'm betting most communication from UA to you has said something quite the opposite, maybe even referring to you as a valued or loyal customer.
No doubt it was a screw up the new green CFO used the term in public and i'm sure Jeff has let him have it for the screw up. But that said, i doubt he was actually wrong.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:29 am
  #1493  
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Red face

Originally Posted by sxf24
I never said the feedback from this community should be ignored.

I don't think a reasonable person would expect any company to use an anonymous subset of self-described "best customers" who are focused on finding loopholes in the company's programs and policies as its primary source of feedback.
What is your "dog" in this fight? Do you work for UA?
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:34 am
  #1494  
 
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Originally Posted by fastair
True, but I bet you were not at the Bank of America/Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, so most likely they didn't communicate to you that you were over entitled, and I also suspect that you have not received any direct communicaton from UA that said the same.

I'm betting most communication from UA to you has said something quite the opposite, maybe even referring to you as a valued or loyal customer.
My experience is quite different. And I know others who have received the same communication (via phone conversation or face to face meeting) from United. I'm referring to PassPlus secure customers (or I should say former customers). United explained the changes and most questions about the changes were answered by, "Let's be honest, who else are you going to fly?"
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 12:34 am
  #1495  
 
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Originally Posted by chemist661
What is your "dog" in this fight? Do you work for UA?
He may or may not work for UA..which i doubt he does. I don't either but i see the logic here and share it. Folks around here dont know as nearly as much as they think they do on who's really providing the value to the airline.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 1:20 am
  #1496  
 
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Originally Posted by sxf24
I never said the feedback from this community should be ignored.

I don't think a reasonable person would expect any company to use an anonymous subset of self-described "best customers" who are focused on finding loopholes in the company's programs and policies as its primary source of feedback.
You sound like a mileage runner trying to maximize your benefit at minimum cost. Most of the rest of us are business travellers trying to predictably get to our destination so we can conduct business and get back to our families. Nothing wrong with you being a mileage runner but don't think for a second we all play your game.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 1:40 am
  #1497  
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Originally Posted by Beerman92
My experience is quite different. And I know others who have received the same communication (via phone conversation or face to face meeting) from United. I'm referring to PassPlus secure customers (or I should say former customers). United explained the changes and most questions about the changes were answered by, "Let's be honest, who else are you going to fly?"
Precisely. Same here. My answer, by the way, was "American." And I am, happily.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 1:54 am
  #1498  
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Originally Posted by grahampros
No doubt it was a screw up the new green CFO used the term in public and i'm sure Jeff has let him have it for the screw up. But that said, i doubt he was actually wrong.
Under your proposed scenario the subsequent mea culpa would have filtered down to us mere 'over entitled' mortals.

Since my scenario didn't happen I'm fairly sure yours didn't either.

Rather, in several places, including by UAInsider, we were told that his meaning was purely about *S. Period. This is a PR attempt at cover, not a mea culpa.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 7:20 am
  #1499  
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Originally Posted by fastair
True, but I bet you were not at the Bank of America/Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, so most likely they didn't communicate to you that you were over entitled, and I also suspect that you have not received any direct communicaton from UA that said the same.

I'm betting most communication from UA to you has said something quite the opposite, maybe even referring to you as a valued or loyal customer.
The last personal communication of substance I had from UA was when I requested an extension of a 2011 earned SWU by 4 days....you know, as we were told we would be able to do. Quite a fight for that one. Didn't leave me with the impression of being valued.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...l#post18168179

In both word and deed, UA is not communicating a strong value proposition for maintaining my status with them. I am stuck with UA this year...too many miles already committed.
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Old Jun 17, 2012, 9:13 am
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Originally Posted by HitAndRun
You sound like a mileage runner trying to maximize your benefit at minimum cost. Most of the rest of us are business travellers trying to predictably get to our destination so we can conduct business and get back to our families. Nothing wrong with you being a mileage runner but don't think for a second we all play your game.
I thinking your confusing tolerance with advocacy. I don't do mileage runs and believe that in an ideal world customers should be entitled to benefits commiserate with their economic contribution. That means some elites get more than they have in the past, while others get less. Nevertheless, the airlines built a program based on frequency and they have to live with it for the time being.
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