colpuck

So, it's untrue then it's maybe true.

The internet allows me to research employers, health care, ect. Now, I can entertain multiple offers, post opinions of employers on the internet.

I think you need to re-evaluate.

the_happiness_store

No I don't.

We already know many people don't quit due to health insurance and pre existing conditions. That reduces mobility.

You are just plain wrong.

raehl311

This is a good point.

But the solution is not unions. The solution is universal healthcare and one federal income tax that replaces the myriad of income, capital gains, dividends, social security and medicare taxes.

Then every citizen pays the same taxes and has the same (base) healthcare, no matter which job they take, no matter how many jobs companies ship overseas, no matter how they get their income. Labor resources would be allocated according to the economic value of the labor instead of opting out of the retirement and healthcare system. (And make no mistake, every job a company replaces with automation or outsourcing to foreign countries is essentially a tax dodge.)

The problem is few people really have health insurance in this country. What we have is a discount purchase plan. Some jobs offer discount medical services purchase plans, which are good as long as you're employed. But if you get sick enough that you can't work, you lose your job, lose your discount medical services purchase plan, and then get to drive yourself into bankruptcy paying for your own medical care until you finally are poor enough to qualify for medicaid/social security disability.

If you're LUCKY, someone else has the job where you get your insurance so as long as they stay with the same employer, or move to another employer with a group plan, you still get your insurance covered. Self-employment is right out.

But still, these are not problems solved by unions, especially in sectors where the job can be moved out of the US.

And in fact, our insistence on funding things like social security and medicare through taxes on WAGES only is a strong economic force driving jobs out of this country.


I wouldn't go so far as to say ALPA doesn't serve the interest of pilots though; they seem to be doing a good job of serving the interests of pilots who still have mainline jobs.

There'd be more mainline pilot jobs if the wage was closer to the market rate however.

colpuck

Wrong again.

HIPPA prevents pre-existing conditions from being excluded provided no more than 63 days have elapsed between carriers.

in 2014 there will not be any pre-existing exclusions allowed period.

Brian

Health care really isn't the core structural imbalance in the relationship between pilots and management.

Airlines are oligopolies... there are a limited number of places where professional pilots can ply their trade. The top four airlines, in fact, control something like 70% of US market share. That's fine... but as such, normal free market imperatives that lead to an informed exchange of value (i.e. an open marketplace) are absent, since it is very easy for a small number of competitors to march in lock step on, say, wages, without ever communicating with each other.

It's reasonable for pilots, in this case, to use their ability to act in concert as a balancing point for the structure of their industry. In fact, it is the only way they can effectively represent their own interests.

Again, no one is forcing anyone to do anything. Pilots can do something else; airlines can go nonunion. In each case, there are very specific financial incentives that keep them together in their current format.

These systems are complex and nonintuitive in many ways; assuming you can "fix" them with changes that impose further restrictions on each is likely to lead to more problems, not fewer. And, in the short run, one side or another usually has a better position.

But it's a pendulum, and left to market forces it rights itself in reasonable time.

aluminumdriver

And off the cliff you go again.

AD

colpuck

Yes, just say no. You sure showed me...

ualp

Flying Population's interests? - Sorry, not ALPA's job.

colpuck

Like I said they are not interested in safety. Safety which does interest the flying population. Or the ALPA doesn't think the public is interested in safety?

Which is it?

ualp

Yes, he did! ...
For you to disregard ALPA's record in the safety arena only highlites your ignorance of the subject matter.

An NO, I'm not gonna list 'em for you.
How about doing some research on your own rather than just popping off without knowing the facts.

LIKE YOU SAID "Flying Population's Interests".
Based on FT posts that would be: crappy seat, meal, boarding, gate agents, checked bags, denied boarding, how much compensation can I get, etc., etc.

Where did you hide the word SAFETY?

Dude! You are all over the place.
Focus...or give it a break.

colpuck

Yes the flying population is interested in safety. No one is going to get on an unsafe airline. I do believe the entire laundry list of items you wrote have nothing to do with the pilots or ALPA.

So you're denying the flying public is interested in safety?

How about the UA ALPA flight over the flight engineer position on the 767. The union basically forced boeing and United to make expensive and ultimately useless redesigns. There is that silly press release about the lack of gates on the 787. Never mind that no other carrier in the world uses those.

Would you like me to continue?

ualp

Nope. Never said that.

Now, after discounting ALPA's Safety role, you want to start talking about safety.
I thought you were bashing unions, pay, and who knows whatelse.
Again, you're ALL OVER the place.

Seriously, you need to take a breather.
Look at your post count.
I'd buy you the first round if I was there, 'cause, you really need to chill.
However, I'm gonna bet you won't.

colpuck

So you're saying that the ALPA isn't interested in safety. Well I already knew that. Tell me more about deadheading pilots and access to buy-on-board food. I know that concerns you.

FlyinHawaiian

I'm not seeing any productive conversation at this point; I think it best to impose a cooling-off period for this thread. If and when it's re-opened, civility and full compliance with FlyerTalk's Rules and Guidelines will be required.

FlyinHawaiian, Co-Moderator
United MileagePlus Forum