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Another Global First omen....AA pulling First

Another Global First omen....AA pulling First

Old May 9, 12, 6:57 pm
  #1  
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Another Global First omen....AA pulling First

AA announced today all of its 772s will become 2 class with retrofits starting in 2014. All biz seats will have aisle access on both 763a and 777s further diluting the F value proposition.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/american-airlines-refresh-international-widebody-155200548.html

10 773s that are being delivered this year and next will still be 3 class. Not clear if that's a function of lead times or a very small number of markets they think supports it. Prob just LHR JFK where these are first dedicated and one or two other routes.

Waiting for an announcement on their 762s and the transcons...

Feels like AA did the homework and found a shrinking market.

Feels more likely now UA lets Global First bleed out as birds retire or proactively reconfig as seat delivery windows open.
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Old May 9, 12, 7:16 pm
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Add to this the LH announcement of F going away and I think the writing is on the wall. I could care less, as long as we can still book F with *A miles on other carries like NH, TG and SQ.
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Old May 9, 12, 7:19 pm
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Old May 9, 12, 7:22 pm
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Originally Posted by nevansm View Post
Add to this the LH announcement of F going away and I think the writing is on the wall. I could care less, as long as we can still book F with *A miles on other carries like NH, TG and SQ.
Well going away on 30% of their fleet. They're keeping it on 70%.

Sounds like some of the 744s will see biz class upstairs instead of the new first.

Though the first place to see new 748s with first class will be 3 UA hubs (IAD, LAX, ORD).
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Old May 9, 12, 7:23 pm
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Originally Posted by nevansm View Post
Add to this the LH announcement of F going away and I think the writing is on the wall. I could care less, as long as we can still book F with *A miles on other carries like NH, TG and SQ.
We can't book SQ F w miles. I fly the SFO-ICN route w SQ regularly and I have been the ONLY passenger in F around 50% of the time. SQ MGMNT has told me they have a VERY strict policy of NO op ups, no upgrades and don't even allow award redemption into the F cabin on the 77W and 380. They feel it dilutes the value and would rather have the flight go with F-0 and Y/C oversold leaving pax on the ground. This business model seems to work for them
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Old May 9, 12, 7:40 pm
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Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr View Post
SQ MGMNT has told me they have a VERY strict policy of NO op ups, no upgrades and don't even allow award redemption into the F cabin on the 77W and 380. They feel it dilutes the value and would rather have the flight go with F-0 and Y/C oversold leaving pax on the ground.

At least THEY value something....
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Old May 9, 12, 7:46 pm
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So will we eventually see BizFirst or whatever it should be called going at F award rates?

Personally, I think a 3-class International plane makes sense, but it should be Biz, Premium Economy (not to be confused with E+) and Economy. Maybe this is the start of heading in that direction.
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Old May 9, 12, 8:03 pm
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Originally Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky View Post
So will we eventually see BizFirst or whatever it should be called going at F award rates?

Personally, I think a 3-class International plane makes sense, but it should be Biz, Premium Economy (not to be confused with E+) and Economy. Maybe this is the start of heading in that direction.
Funny thing is, PanAm's 3 class config in the 1980s had 55-60 inch pitch for First class (compare to 60 inch for pmCO BF seats), 38 inch pitch for Clipper class (what is now called Business class, compare this to 38 inch pitch on most premium economy products), and 32 inch for the rest.

People seem to forget that pitch in the premium cabins has expanded dramatically in the last 30 years when talking about ye olde golden era.

Now, the catering was obviously much better back then, but then they certainly charged you for the privilege of it.
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Old May 9, 12, 8:13 pm
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Originally Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky View Post
So will we eventually see BizFirst or whatever it should be called going at F award rates?

Personally, I think a 3-class International plane makes sense, but it should be Biz, Premium Economy (not to be confused with E+) and Economy. Maybe this is the start of heading in that direction.
Unfortunately TG seems to be completely phasing out Premium E with the retirement of the A345s and no indication that it will return in any of their new aircraft. Their going with three class but F, C and Y. Too bad, as I loved the Premium E on the 345s and they used to offer one way buy ups from LAX at $199.

I do really hope the non-stop LAX-BKK service (and maybe even NYC-BKK) will return with delivery of the 787s TG has ordered though.
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Old May 9, 12, 8:15 pm
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meh. as long as it's lie flat with aisle access. i'm usually sleeping anyway. i flew on UA C from SFO-NRT once. i remember taking off because i thought it was cool going backwards. and then the next thing i new i woke up because the plane landed. i'm pretty sure F would have been a complete waste of money for me. i'm on a plane so i can get somewhere, not because i wanted to go shopping for PJ's. as such C is usually good enough for me. i sleep like a rock so i don't think having my own door would help.
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Old May 9, 12, 8:18 pm
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This thread title is entirely misleading.
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Old May 9, 12, 8:19 pm
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Originally Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky View Post
Personally, I think a 3-class International plane makes sense, but it should be Biz, Premium Economy (not to be confused with E+) and Economy. Maybe this is the start of heading in that direction.
^ This is the model for the future in all but rare instances that will warrant F on premium carriers.
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Old May 9, 12, 8:22 pm
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Originally Posted by Mike Jacoubowsky View Post
Personally, I think a 3-class International plane makes sense, but it should be Biz, Premium Economy (not to be confused with E+) and Economy. Maybe this is the start of heading in that direction.
TK C on the 777 is a great example of this - their Premium Economy is like PS C
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Old May 9, 12, 8:29 pm
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It will be interesting to see which routes wind up with F/C/Y at AA going forward. 10 77Ws won't cover much flying, especially with some South American trips in the rotation (as is planned).

At least UA will be three class across a large portion of the longhaul fleet for the foreseeable future.
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Old May 9, 12, 8:46 pm
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Originally Posted by UNITED959 View Post
This thread title is entirely misleading.
Yep.
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