UA versus AA...Observations and things to consider before leaving/joining
Aug 1, 2012, 9:17 pm
#481
Join Date: May 2001
Location: TPA 50%/BKK 30%/HKG 20%
Programs: UA 1K MM - AF G – TK G – AZ Ex – Hilton D – Marriott G – IHG P
Posts: 1,990
I just found this out from another thread.
AA doesn't fly to BKK on its own metal so SWUs won't get you upgraded beyond NRT.
Maybe most of you are aware of this, but I was not, so I am reposting it here in case someone else didn't know.
AA doesn't fly to BKK on its own metal so SWUs won't get you upgraded beyond NRT.
Maybe most of you are aware of this, but I was not, so I am reposting it here in case someone else didn't know.
Aug 1, 2012, 10:12 pm
#482
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton GLD, Marriott Plat, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 2,872
Yes, sadly, $mi$ek is right when he talks about "route network" in his videos. That said, if I can tough out a transcon in coach on UA, I will probably be able to tough out a similar flight in Asia on JL, especially if it means I saved $500 on not playing SWU roulette.
Aug 2, 2012, 7:58 am
#483
Join Date: May 2001
Location: TPA 50%/BKK 30%/HKG 20%
Programs: UA 1K MM - AF G – TK G – AZ Ex – Hilton D – Marriott G – IHG P
Posts: 1,990
Yes, sadly, $mi$ek is right when he talks about "route network" in his videos. That said, if I can tough out a transcon in coach on UA, I will probably be able to tough out a similar flight in Asia on JL, especially if it means I saved $500 on not playing SWU roulette.
I haven't been in Y for years on a domestic UA flight. 1K ex-TPA always gets upgraded. Usually there is no one in F until the 96 hour window hits. So TPA-EWR/IAD/IAH/ORD-NRT-BKK I am 100% on all segments on SWUs. (That said, my BKK-NRT segment later this month isn't looking good with only 4 C seats left...
)Bottom line is... I think I will stick with UA and not consider this again unless AA gets a BKK flight. (And US isn't going to help much with that.)
Right now the TPA-BKK W fare differential in October is $250.
Last edited by TomA; Aug 2, 2012 at 8:03 am
Aug 6, 2012, 4:35 pm
#484
In Memoriam, FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Benicia CA
Programs: Alaska MVP Gold 75K, AA 3.8MM, UA 1.1MM, enjoying the retired life
Posts: 31,849
Nice checking in here coming home from the Olympics yesterday as many of the AA flights were zeroed out and I expected horrendous lines inside the terminal. I was third in line with my party of five and was out of there in about 5 minutes.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Aug 6, 2012 at 5:20 pm Reason: merge
Aug 13, 2012, 12:42 pm
#485
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NCL
Programs: UA 1MM/*G. DL Gold for one more year.
Posts: 5,305
Partner credits
All BA flights have posted like clockwork so far. I had one flight with soon-to-be ex-partner GOL that didn't. Made an online retrocredit request (yes, they still do those). No dice within 30 days, so I sent an e-mail message. Got a response by return:
OK, it's even more gushing and over the top than the keenest 1K line operators of yore. But you know what? After six months of being ignored completely or "Buzz off, Sincerely, Mileage Plus", it's really refreshing!
First, allow me to thank you for being one of our valued Executive
Platinum® members. At AAdvantage® Customer Service, we are always glad
to hear from you.
I have posted the missing GOL segment you requested. Please allow up to
24 hours before viewing this adjustment online when you login to your
AAdvantage account.
I'm glad I could assist you in this matter. Have a tremendous week ahead
of you!
Platinum® members. At AAdvantage® Customer Service, we are always glad
to hear from you.
I have posted the missing GOL segment you requested. Please allow up to
24 hours before viewing this adjustment online when you login to your
AAdvantage account.
I'm glad I could assist you in this matter. Have a tremendous week ahead
of you!
Aug 13, 2012, 12:55 pm
#486
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: UA PP, AA, DL, BA, CX, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 2,002
AA has 2 forms of qualification, either via miles or elite qualifying points. In order to get EXP you need to have either 100000 miles or 100000 points.
A mile is a mile in an airline seat (bis miles) and a points value depends on the type of fare bought.
The table for the fare is on the web site for e.g. American (can be different for partners).
http://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/ea...s/american.jsp
Now simple example to see what the problem is if you can e.g. fly business overseas but economy domestic.
Lets say you fly 50k miles in Business class and 30k miles domestic in heavily discounted economy.
United Airlines : 50k *1.5 + 30 k = 105k and you are 1K
AA : Method 1 (miles) 50k + 30k = 80k and you are short for EXP
Method 2 (points) 50k*1.5 + 30k*0.5 = 90k and you are short again
A mile is a mile in an airline seat (bis miles) and a points value depends on the type of fare bought.
The table for the fare is on the web site for e.g. American (can be different for partners).
http://www.aa.com/i18n/AAdvantage/ea...s/american.jsp
Now simple example to see what the problem is if you can e.g. fly business overseas but economy domestic.
Lets say you fly 50k miles in Business class and 30k miles domestic in heavily discounted economy.
United Airlines : 50k *1.5 + 30 k = 105k and you are 1K
AA : Method 1 (miles) 50k + 30k = 80k and you are short for EXP
Method 2 (points) 50k*1.5 + 30k*0.5 = 90k and you are short again
Also bad for AA is that truly high spenders do not get priority upgrades over regular 100,000 folks - they're all in EXP. The guy who does 10+ trips annually in international paid C has the same upgrade priority as the guy next to him making EXP with 4 cents per mile mileage runs.
Let's put some numbers to these figures.
It's somewhat generally accepted that GS' need $50K/year of full-fare tickets to maintain status. Some spend more, obviously. But let's say that each 1K/GS in the mix is worth $50K/year for number's sake, since we also have to account for the revenue from the 10K non-1K/GS flyers who've moved.
5,000 x 60% x $50,000 = $150,000,000.
I wasn't too clear on if the 5,000 number was already whittled down in the 60% figure or not. If not:
5,000 x $50,000 = $250,000,000
Even if the total annual revenue from those who took the status match is half that, I'd still say handing out the free SWUs, cost of processing the matches plus follow-ups, lounge passes, GoGo certs, etc. was well worth it for AA. That's a lot of dough they would have otherwise left on the table. The minimum this status match effort has to be worth to AA is probably $100M/yr.
It's somewhat generally accepted that GS' need $50K/year of full-fare tickets to maintain status. Some spend more, obviously. But let's say that each 1K/GS in the mix is worth $50K/year for number's sake, since we also have to account for the revenue from the 10K non-1K/GS flyers who've moved.
5,000 x 60% x $50,000 = $150,000,000.
I wasn't too clear on if the 5,000 number was already whittled down in the 60% figure or not. If not:
5,000 x $50,000 = $250,000,000
Even if the total annual revenue from those who took the status match is half that, I'd still say handing out the free SWUs, cost of processing the matches plus follow-ups, lounge passes, GoGo certs, etc. was well worth it for AA. That's a lot of dough they would have otherwise left on the table. The minimum this status match effort has to be worth to AA is probably $100M/yr.
A pax can theoretically wave surf between the 4 legacies with minimum effort. The airlines would incur the cost of elites with the benefit to prior revenue, and thus forced to dilute their elite programs even further.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Aug 13, 2012 at 1:52 pm Reason: merge
Aug 13, 2012, 1:27 pm
#487
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California, GVA, SIN, LHR, BRU, CDG
Programs: UA LT GS 4.12MM (4.08MM BIS), AA EXP 1.86MM ,DL DM 1.1MM, HH LT Diamond, SPG Platinum
Posts: 1,182
All BA flights have posted like clockwork so far. I had one flight with soon-to-be ex-partner GOL that didn't. Made an online retrocredit request (yes, they still do those). No dice within 30 days, so I sent an e-mail message. Got a response by return:
OK, it's even more gushing and over the top than the keenest 1K line operators of yore. But you know what? After six months of being ignored completely or "Buzz off, Sincerely, Mileage Plus", it's really refreshing!
OK, it's even more gushing and over the top than the keenest 1K line operators of yore. But you know what? After six months of being ignored completely or "Buzz off, Sincerely, Mileage Plus", it's really refreshing!
MP customer service used to be among the best in the business...sadly no more, not even close! Sad, Sad, Sad!
Aug 13, 2012, 1:40 pm
#488
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
That's a big can of worms that AA has just opened. I'd envision all the major airlines eventually trying to do free matches for each other's elites (not just top tier), and waving any challenge requirement.
A pax can theoretically wave surf between the 4 legacies with minimum effort. The airlines would incur the cost of elites with the benefit to prior revenue, and thus forced to dilute their elite programs even further.
A pax can theoretically wave surf between the 4 legacies with minimum effort. The airlines would incur the cost of elites with the benefit to prior revenue, and thus forced to dilute their elite programs even further.
As for diluting an FF program, UA is doing a fine job of this already.
Aug 13, 2012, 1:46 pm
#489
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NCL
Programs: UA 1MM/*G. DL Gold for one more year.
Posts: 5,305
That's a big can of worms that AA has just opened. I'd envision all the major airlines eventually trying to do free matches for each other's elites (not just top tier), and waving any challenge requirement.
A pax can theoretically wave surf between the 4 legacies with minimum effort. The airlines would incur the cost of elites with the benefit to prior revenue, and thus forced to dilute their elite programs even further.
A pax can theoretically wave surf between the 4 legacies with minimum effort. The airlines would incur the cost of elites with the benefit to prior revenue, and thus forced to dilute their elite programs even further.
Aug 13, 2012, 1:50 pm
#490
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Denver • DEN-APA
Programs: AF Platinum, EK Gold, AA EXP, UA 1K, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 21,602
Aug 13, 2012, 2:43 pm
#491
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: UA PP, AA, DL, BA, CX, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 2,002
I certainly don't imagine UA doing this, except possibly for GS-level spenders. UA management seems pretty indifferent to other elites, and is not exactly bending over backwards to avoid displeasing GS members these days.
As for diluting an FF program, UA is doing a fine job of this already.
As for diluting an FF program, UA is doing a fine job of this already.
Aug 13, 2012, 2:50 pm
#492
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, UA1K/2MM, Marriott Platinum Premier Lifetime
Posts: 357
Aug 13, 2012, 2:55 pm
#493
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: LAX/BOS/HKG/AMS/SFO...hmm, I need a life.
Programs: United1K, AA ExPlAAt, DL MM/Gold, Hilton Diamond, Avis First
Posts: 13,316
But with only four legacy carriers surviving (for the moment), each FF only has three chances in a lifetime to match. Moreover, I would wager a bet that many, possibly the majority of FFers have no clue that this possibility exists. I certainly didn't until I discovered Flyertalk, and got a match from CO to UA 1P (when the sainted Gordon introduced 50% EQMs on all flights not booked directly with the airline). I had quite a few very good years with UA, but fat lot of good it's done me in the longer term.
BTW, you can, for example, match to AS and leverage the DL system through their partnership. Lots of creative ways to keep em competitive.
Aug 13, 2012, 4:08 pm
#494
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SPI
Programs: AA Gold, UA LT Plat, Mar LTT
Posts: 18,147
It is this mindset which drives everything from SHARES, to customer service, to GAs/Fas, to IRROPS.
If someone here hasn't figured that out yet, may a Higher Power be their guide.
Dave
Aug 13, 2012, 5:06 pm
#495
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: ORD
Programs: AA EXP, UA1K/2MM, Marriott Platinum Premier Lifetime
Posts: 357
Of course they're not bending over. The CO folks running the show are familiar with pax who DONT HAVE A CHOICE.
It is this mindset which drives everything from SHARES, to customer service, to GAs/Fas, to IRROPS.
If someone here hasn't figured that out yet, may a Higher Power be their guide.
Dave
It is this mindset which drives everything from SHARES, to customer service, to GAs/Fas, to IRROPS.
If someone here hasn't figured that out yet, may a Higher Power be their guide.
Dave