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United & Hawaiian Airlines: Interlining bags, bag fees & other connecting experiences

Old Oct 19, 2017, 10:51 am
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Last edit by: WineCountryUA
UA and Hawaiian Air (HA) will interline bags.

When checking-in with HA, no UA elite / credit card bag waivers will be recognized. Bag allowance will be based on ticket rules.

HA's policy on inter-island / Neighbor Island flights is no free bags in economy.
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United & Hawaiian Airlines: Interlining bags, bag fees & other connecting experiences

Old Jun 12, 2012, 6:41 am
  #16  
 
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We are flying from OGG-HNL-DEN-DSM in early July. I have an award ticket for the UA segments (HNL-DSM). I had to purchase a ticket from HA to get from OGG-HNL--I did try to get UA to sell me the ticket so I could get them on a linked PNR, but they were unable to ticket the HA OGG-HNL segment. When calling UA, the GS agents tell me that there is no way they can link the flights into one PNR. Right now I see the following note on the Hawaiian Air Website

"Beginning June 1, 2012, Hawaiian will not through check bags to other airline flights unless the other airline segments are on the same ticket."

Does anyone have any experience yet working through this rule? Any chance the HA agents on Maui will check our bags through to DSM (I will certainly ask at the airport)? Any brilliant workarounds?
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Old Jun 12, 2012, 7:46 am
  #17  
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http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...uggage-ua.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawai...g-flights.html
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 2:24 pm
  #18  
 
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Beware Hawaiian/United Baggage Charges

I'm posting this in the United thread because it's a popular destination with United elites. Maybe this has happened to you.

In early Oct 2012, we flew DEN-LIH then LIH-HNL-DEN. United was the originating carrier. LIH-HNL was a UA codeshare flight operated by Hawaiian. When checking in at the LIH Hawaiian desk, I was required to pay $25 baggage fees despite showing the Hawaiian counter agent a copy of my United itinerary with the line that read "LIH to DEN 1st bag $0.00, 2nd bag $0.00".

After paying Hawaiian's 'ransom', I called the 1K desk and was told that Hawaiian had violated a January 24 DOT law that stipulates that the originating carrier's baggage policy prevails. A little research on the web located rule 399.87. It layman's terms it says "For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a US Point, US and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire journey." [Note, separate PNR's void the protection this rule affords, however my itinerary was a single PNR].

In subsequent sharing of my dislike of Hawaiian with other travelers, I've run across two who have had similar experience. So it would seem that this may be a common practice [?scam?] by Hawaiian. So what can one do if your too are forced to pay the 'ransom'. Consider *****

***** filing a complaint with DOT. Hawaiian's practice may be illegal. Enough complaints may get some DOT action ... maybe even a fine. Here's the complaint website:
http://www.dot.gov/individuals/air-c...t-comment-form

**** calling customer service at Hawaiian 808-246-8526. In the end you probably won't get any satisfaction. However, if you can manage a call at a time where you are able to do something else in parallel [such as out for an exercise walk], then you can spend enough of an Hawaiian Agent's time that they are actually out your $25.

***** dispute the charge with your credit card company. Provide your UA documentation showing free baggage and your Hawaiian receipts, plus claim that Hawaiian acted in violation of rule 399.87 . I'm not sure yet whether I will prevail in this action. However, this too will consume Hawaiian's time.

***** asking United to refund the $25. There is some fine print that suggests that United is ultimately responsible to their originating passenger. But I'm not planning that step until action possibilities from the previous 3 steps have been exhausted. It makes no sense to me to penalize United for potentially illegal actions of another carrier.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 2:56 pm
  #19  
 
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search is your friend. a quick search of hawaiian and baggage showed this thread about 3/4 of the way down.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ning-bags.html
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 2:59 pm
  #20  
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There is also this thread in the HA forum
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawai...ive-6-1-a.html
Includes some discussion of DOT rules and complaints.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 3:17 pm
  #21  
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The code share when checking in to a Hawaiian Airlines flight means nothing relative to baggage. You are subject to Hawaiian's baggage charge. This is nothing new. It is not a scam and it is not illegal. Even though code shares are common, one is usually subject to the baggage rules of the operating carrier you are checking in with.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 3:28 pm
  #22  
 
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Yes, HA did it wrong, according to the IATA's own U.S. rule and HA's own interpretation of those rules.

See http://www.hawaiianairlines.com/help...1922#codeshare where HA says that they follow the rule that the fees of the marketing carrier of the first segment apply throughout a journey. In your case, the marketing carrier of the first segment of your journey was UA.

If you've already (1) filed a DOT complaint concisely explaining the problem and (2) contested the charge with your credit card company, you've done about as much as you can. For a really good time, of course, you could (3) sue Hawaiian in small claims court, although you have to put a very low value on your time to make this work.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 3:31 pm
  #23  
 
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Consider a TOD upgrade

For those who'd like to get more for their money from HA, I'd recommend taking their TOD upgrade to First Class through OLCI or at the airport kiosk.

Then, you'll at least gain a bit of faux luxury for your money. If you're checking two bags, the upgrade cost difference is negligible.
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Old Oct 7, 2012, 9:07 pm
  #24  
 
 
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Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
The code share when checking in to a Hawaiian Airlines flight means nothing relative to baggage. You are subject to Hawaiian's baggage charge. This is nothing new. It is not a scam and it is not illegal. Even though code shares are common, one is usually subject to the baggage rules of the operating carrier you are checking in with.
You are citing outdated rules.

Those rules changed in January, though enforcement was delayed to give the airlines some time to adapt.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/hawai...ive-6-1-a.html

-David
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 9:03 pm
  #25  
 
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Hawaiian responded and denied my refund request for baggage fees charged LIH to HNL when the e-ticket I had from UA clearly showed $0. The issue is more clearly described above in post #18. Their email is reproduced below in italics:

We received your call to our advocate line and complaint filed with the Department of Transportation (DOT) as of October 5. Thank you for your patience in awaiting our reply, while we investigated your case.

We regret any misinformation you were provided about your checked baggage fees. However, airline carriers are not obligated to honor frequent flier status of another carrier's mileage program. The Hawaiian Airlines contract of carriage specifically state that the first checked baggage fee from Hawaii to the mainland is $25. The related information about the baggage ruling your cited are enclosed below. We have shared your case with our team managers to avoid future issues between Hawaiian Airlines and United Airlines passengers. Based on the above, Hawaiian Airlines does not believe we violated the statute listed and are unable to honor your request for a refund.


In their response, they cited supporting evidence that contradicts the position they took. They included the following statements in their email:

It is up to the carriers to coordinate among themselves to determine whether, based on the passenger's eligibility for reduced or waived baggage fees for one or more segments of an itinerary, the reduced or waived baggage fees apply to the entire itinerary. The carriers are jointly responsible for sharing information regarding the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to those itineraries and coordinating among themselves to ensure that passengers are provided accurate information about the baggage allowances and fees that will apply to their itinerary and ensuring that passengers are not charged additional or higher baggage fees than those that were disclosed at the time of sale. For example, a carrier could change its frequent flyer rules to make clear that the free baggage allowance only applies when all of the flights on a passenger's itinerary are operated by that carrier with no code-share or interlining.

The Hawaiian flight was a UA code share and bags were interlined. Hawaiian shared a second excerpt in their defense:

For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S.
point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary. In the case of code-share flights that form part of an itinerary whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees of the marketing carrier throughout the itinerary to the extent that they differ
from those of any operating carrier.


That's the 399.87 ruling. The marketing carrier was United. The way I read this, United should then set the baggage fees. What am I missing??
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Old Oct 12, 2012, 9:54 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Jonce
.... The marketing carrier was United. The way I read this, United should then set the baggage fees. What am I missing??
UA states
Note: Baggage allowances for codeshare partners or another airline may be different. If your flight originates with one of our codeshare partners or another airline you will need to check with that carrier for baggage policies.​
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 5:38 am
  #27  
 
 
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Originally Posted by Jonce
That's the 399.87 ruling. The marketing carrier was United. The way I read this, United should then set the baggage fees. What am I missing??
Nothing, you should respond citing their own text from their own web page:

https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/hel...Statement.aspx

For reservations connecting with other airlines, the baggage fees and rules of the first carrier applies throughout the itinerary. For example, if you are traveling round trip from Honolulu, Hawaii to Austin, Texas, and connecting from Hawaiian Airlines to United Airlines, Hawaiian Airlines baggage fees and rules would apply both ways.
In your case, United was the first carrier and also the significant carrier on your journey and United's baggage fees were zero for you.

Are you going to get anywhere? Probably not, they will keep finding a reason to deny giving you a refund, because it's a huge source of income for them and they get nothing for transporting visitors bags on the way to the islands if you fly another carrier to Hawaii and just fly the last inter-island leg on Hawaiian as part of your itinerary. You can try small claims court I suppose.

You might also file a comment or complaint with the DOT. IMO, their new rules have not really helped anybody and they certainly aren't being enforced. In many cases, they have done more harm since some airlines have restricted interlining since the new rules have taken affect.

-David
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 11:39 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by LIH Prem
Nothing, you should respond citing their own text from their own web page:

https://www.hawaiianairlines.com/hel...Statement.aspx



In your case, United was the first carrier and also the significant carrier on your journey and United's baggage fees were zero for you.

Are you going to get anywhere? Probably not, they will keep finding a reason to deny giving you a refund, because it's a huge source of income for them and they get nothing for transporting visitors bags on the way to the islands if you fly another carrier to Hawaii and just fly the last inter-island leg on Hawaiian as part of your itinerary. You can try small claims court I suppose.

You might also file a comment or complaint with the DOT. IMO, their new rules have not really helped anybody and they certainly aren't being enforced. In many cases, they have done more harm since some airlines have restricted interlining since the new rules have taken affect.

-David
United was indeed the first carrier, but the Ponce's trip is composed of two origins and two destinations. Mainland to Hawaii (United is first carrier) and then Hawaii to mainland (Hawaiian is first carrier). I think that's the confusion - people are misconstruing the "first carrier" as applying to both journeys. From the mainland, UA baggage charges are applicable. From Hawaii, Hawaiian's are (that's how i read it). UA even says this may be expected on their baggage page. I've been connecting thought LAX/SFO last eight months or so, but on the 22nd I'm connecting outbound through HNL. It'll be interesting to see what happens, but I'm expecting to pay for a bag.

The code-sharing is the problem. United needs to be explicit at booking about baggage charges that may be incurred by operating code-share partners at check in - in this case Hawaiian in Lihue. If anything, the OP needs to seek compensation from UA, but that'll get nowhere because UA baggage policies outside of the ticketing process clearly state the potential for charges being assesses by operating partners. UA just needs to be explicit at ticketing.

Ponce has absolutely no claim against Hawaiian.

In any case, Hawaiian and United are certainly screwing with the image the State wants to project. No favors to tourism when tourists are hit at back end of a vacation with unexpected baggage charges from a Hawaii-based airline.

Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Oct 13, 2012 at 4:29 pm
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 1:17 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by mherdeg
Yes, HA did it wrong, according to the IATA's own U.S. rule and HA's own interpretation of those rules.

See http://www.hawaiianairlines.com/help...1922#codeshare where HA says that they follow the rule that the fees of the marketing carrier of the first segment apply throughout a journey. In your case, the marketing carrier of the first segment of your journey was UA.

If you've already (1) filed a DOT complaint concisely explaining the problem and (2) contested the charge with your credit card company, you've done about as much as you can. For a really good time, of course, you could (3) sue Hawaiian in small claims court, although you have to put a very low value on your time to make this work.
The OPs PNR is composed of 2 journeys (ie 2 check-ins at which time baggage is checked in). United was initial carrier of first journey and Hawaiian was initial carrier of 2nd journey. This is not that complicated. You're barking up trees.

Last edited by IAH-OIL-TRASH; Oct 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm
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Old Oct 13, 2012, 4:18 pm
  #30  
 
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Our Experience: Proper connections no charge; offline connections: Charge

We did FIVE trips to Hawaii this year:

First:
UA: LAX-LIH THEN 4 days later, LIH-OGG on HA, THEN 3 days later OGG-LAX
These were all on a single UA E-Ticket.
No bags charges on UA segments, HA *DID* charge bags

Second:
UA: LAX-HNL then immediate connection HA: HNL-OGG return UA:OGG-LAX
Bags Charged for HNL-OGG

Third:
UA: LAX-OGG then return HA: OGG-HNL, 2 days later UA: HNL-LAX
Bags Charged for OGG-HNL

Forth:
UA: LAX-OGG then HA:OGG-HNL immediate connection to UA:HNL-LAX
Bags Charged for OGG-HNL; HOWEVER we did an HA instant upgrade at check in and paid for that - which then gave us 2 FREE BAGS

Fifth:
UA: LAX-HNL then immediate connection HA: HNL-LIH return UA:LIH-LAX
NO Bags charged


I can assume if you have bags tagged from the originating carrier and do AN actual connection and bags interlined you will NEVER see a charge if you have gratis baggage with that carrier.

If you are having bags go to first destination only where you manually re-check bags OR if its a few days later then the secondary carrier has EVERY right to charge for bags. You ARE not connecting from the first to secondary carrier - you are doing a stop, then doing another flight solely on that secondary carrier (or connecting after your secondary carrier flight to another carrier) - that secondary carrier has EVERY right to enforce it's baggage policy. Arguing here isn't going to do much, arguing to DOT isn't either.

However; if you ARE going UA->HA and UA *HAS* tagged your bags all the way through to the HA connecting flight ; THAT is where DOT steps in to say HA cannot charge you for bags.
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