Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Nov 10, 2013, 11:03 pm
#2281
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Glob, MR Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 443
I want to book something like this:
ORD-FRA-NRT (destination for 4 days)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover for 4 months)
CDG-JFK
Is this a valid routing even though the stopover is a lot longer than destination?
ORD-FRA-NRT (destination for 4 days)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover for 4 months)
CDG-JFK
Is this a valid routing even though the stopover is a lot longer than destination?
Nov 10, 2013, 11:40 pm
#2282
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
There is no restriction on the length of the stopover vs the destination and plenty of people have itins with the SO being longer than the destination.
Nov 10, 2013, 11:42 pm
#2283
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,844
Nov 10, 2013, 11:50 pm
#2284
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Glob, MR Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 443
ORD-NRT (destination for 4 days)
NRT-BKK-CDG-MUC (stopover for 5 months)
MUC-YYZ-LAX
Nov 10, 2013, 11:53 pm
#2285
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: SAN
Programs: Delta Gold. Hilton Diamond. Hyatt Explorist.
Posts: 1,674
I think you are limited to four segments in each direction. Your trip from NRT to LAX has five.
Nov 11, 2013, 12:05 am
#2286
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Glob, MR Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 443
Nov 11, 2013, 12:21 am
#2287
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
I'd be willing to bet, everything else being the same, that a 4 day stop in BKK rather than NRT would ticket.
The reason is that there is routing resistance in transiting S Asia on a US-N Asia trip that is already incorporating a Europe transit.
US->Eur->N Asia/Japan->S Asia is kosher
US->Eur->S Asia->N Asia/Japan is not kosher
Nov 11, 2013, 12:55 am
#2288
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,450
Based on recent reports, you are going to have a problem ticketing any itinerary that involves transiting NRT, BKK, and Europe from North America. Pick two of those three regions (N Asia, SE Asia, Europe) and you should be okay, but all three will be a challenge.
Nov 11, 2013, 2:02 am
#2289
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,922
This wasn't my trip, but for a family of four--that made the routing even more challenging along with a requirement for lie-flat seats on the transatlantic flights. Thank God for LH's new route with O space.
I booked YYZ-MUC//ASM-IST-IAH online and added everything else over the phone. I was shocked when it priced, particularly with six segments on the outbound (unless the computer calculated EDI as the point of turnaround).
Had to fight one agent for the routing when I called back to ticket it ("even if the computer prices it doesn't mean its valid"), but eventually got it to work.
Tip: If you are a 1K and the agent answers the phone "United Premier Line" hang up--it's an ex-Con. Legacy UA folks almost always answer "1K desk" (even though there isn't one anymore).
Nov 11, 2013, 6:01 am
#2290
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: back to Europe
Programs: FB Plat for Life & Marriott lifetime Platinum
Posts: 236
Nov 11, 2013, 6:47 am
#2291
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
Like Ive said a handful of times: For whatever reason this routing is allowed but going to N Asia through S Asia isn't.
*Good bye remainder of miles.
** And we flew US-Eur-Japan-S.Asia 3 weeks ago.
Nov 11, 2013, 10:25 am
#2292
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: WAS
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott Titanium, Nexus, GE
Posts: 2,123
Are they generally more difficult with awards? On my recent redemption that required some phone intervention, I could not realize the speed with which it was accomplished. I had a re-issued ticket in my e-mail before I even hung up!
Nov 11, 2013, 10:35 am
#2293
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,922
When you get a good ex-Con, it is no problem and can actually be quicker, but I find them to be so argumentative much of the time (not just sometimes). Of course it is the routings I book--but, still...like trying to do something like swapping out a MileagePlus number--you'll get IAH folks who will argue for 10 minutes that it is not possible rather than just doing it, which takes only 30 seconds if you have a good agent.
Nov 11, 2013, 2:09 pm
#2294
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,396
When you get a good ex-Con, it is no problem and can actually be quicker, but I find them to be so argumentative much of the time (not just sometimes). Of course it is the routings I book--but, still...like trying to do something like swapping out a MileagePlus number--you'll get IAH folks who will argue for 10 minutes that it is not possible rather than just doing it, which takes only 30 seconds if you have a good agent.
Nov 11, 2013, 3:19 pm
#2295
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: UA platinum, Club Carlson Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 111
Doubts about open jaws in different regions
Is it possible to depart from Europe to South Asia and return to North Africa?, i know that i can if i do 2 one ways, but is it possible to do if i want to have an stopover in Singapur ?
My booking will look something like this.
BCN-FRA-ICN-HKG (destination)
MNL-SIN (stopover) -BKK-FRA-ALG (open jaw)
My booking will look something like this.
BCN-FRA-ICN-HKG (destination)
MNL-SIN (stopover) -BKK-FRA-ALG (open jaw)