Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
#2431
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
Programs: Many
Posts: 6,798
Is this a valid open jaw award routing?
*mods, please add to the master thread, couldn't find it.
Option #1
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover) OPEN JAW BKK-SYD(Destination)-BKK-NRT-JFK
I am 99% certain #1 is legal, but what about #2
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover), OPEN JAW #1 BKK-SYD(Destination) OPEN JAW #2 AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-JFK.
Option #1
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover) OPEN JAW BKK-SYD(Destination)-BKK-NRT-JFK
I am 99% certain #1 is legal, but what about #2
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover), OPEN JAW #1 BKK-SYD(Destination) OPEN JAW #2 AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-JFK.
Last edited by GetSetJetSet; Nov 25, 2013 at 9:25 pm
#2432
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,923
*mods, please add to the master thread, couldn't find it.
Option #1
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover) OPEN JAW BKK-SYD(Destination)-BKK-NRT-JFK
I am 99% certain #1 is legal, but what about #2
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover), OPEN JAW #1 BKK-SYD(Destination) OPEN JAW #2 AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-JFK.
Option #1
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover) OPEN JAW BKK-SYD(Destination)-BKK-NRT-JFK
I am 99% certain #1 is legal, but what about #2
JFK-SFO-PEK-TPE-MNL(stopover), OPEN JAW #1 BKK-SYD(Destination) OPEN JAW #2 AKL-SYD-BKK-NRT-JFK.
#2433
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: EAU
Programs: UA 1K, CO Plat, NW Plat, Marriott Premiere Plat, SPG Plat, Priority Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 4,712
I'm virtually sure #1 isn't legal. You can only open jaw at origin and destination, and I'm virtually sure that when you double-back (BKK-SYD-BKK) you've created a destination.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
#2434
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,923
I'm virtually sure #1 isn't legal. You can only open jaw at origin and destination, and I'm virtually sure that when you double-back (BKK-SYD-BKK) you've created a destination.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
Last edited by MatthewLAX; Nov 25, 2013 at 10:28 pm Reason: spelling
#2435
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
Programs: Many
Posts: 6,798
I'm virtually sure #1 isn't legal. You can only open jaw at origin and destination, and I'm virtually sure that when you double-back (BKK-SYD-BKK) you've created a destination.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
#2436
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,450
I'm virtually sure #1 isn't legal. You can only open jaw at origin and destination, and I'm virtually sure that when you double-back (BKK-SYD-BKK) you've created a destination.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
#2 is definitely not legal. The only way you can open jaw twice is once at origin and once at destination (which is essentially 2 one-way awards with the bonus of being able to put in a stopover.)
Edit: Upon further research, I'm not so sure.... maybe you can open jaw at the stopover, but I haven't had any luck actually doing that.
#2437
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Dayton, OH
Programs: United MP Silver, Club Carlson Gold, SW CP, Hilton Gold, Marriott Silver, Choice Priv Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 41
Ohio-Vietnam/BKK/-MSP 65k + $150
I just booked a great award ticket over New Years. It wasn't easy.
12/28CMH-YYZ-CDG-BKK-SGN
Stopover: SGN-BKK
1/12 OpenJaw: BKK-CDG-YYZ-ORD-MSP
I booked all the oneways via United.com (lots of time here checking daily) and put them on hold using the Paypal trick. Four total.
Called in. Was told it couldn't be booked because it was too many legs. Said he couldn't combine 4 confirmation numbers. I said I've pieced together my flights before like this. Guy volunteered to check what he could do.
Came back once, saying it was too many legs. I said, OK, no problem, then he said, let me check again. I figured maybe I just get to BKK and buy my own leg to Vietnam.
5-7 minutes later he comes back and got the appropriate overrides to make it happen.
...
Pretty happy with this one!
Dude was in Manila, and very friendly. I always told him thanks for anything he could do, and asked questions like, "did you check this." Of course I came in with itineraries with low-level flights. Wonderful guy, and not in a hurry at all to book the ticket. Love the Manila call center!
Happy travels!
I just booked a great award ticket over New Years. It wasn't easy.
12/28CMH-YYZ-CDG-BKK-SGN
Stopover: SGN-BKK
1/12 OpenJaw: BKK-CDG-YYZ-ORD-MSP
I booked all the oneways via United.com (lots of time here checking daily) and put them on hold using the Paypal trick. Four total.
Called in. Was told it couldn't be booked because it was too many legs. Said he couldn't combine 4 confirmation numbers. I said I've pieced together my flights before like this. Guy volunteered to check what he could do.
Came back once, saying it was too many legs. I said, OK, no problem, then he said, let me check again. I figured maybe I just get to BKK and buy my own leg to Vietnam.
5-7 minutes later he comes back and got the appropriate overrides to make it happen.
...
Pretty happy with this one!
Dude was in Manila, and very friendly. I always told him thanks for anything he could do, and asked questions like, "did you check this." Of course I came in with itineraries with low-level flights. Wonderful guy, and not in a hurry at all to book the ticket. Love the Manila call center!
Happy travels!
And HUACA hasn't worked either. It seems agents and supervisors have been directed to deny requests (maybe to hold out until the devaluation?) coming up with any "rule" they can think of. No less than 7 agents have said that an open jaw and stopover should book as two separate trips. Even ones that priced correctly! - "oh, that's weird. That shouldn't have priced. I'll have to report that."
It took me 5 days and about 15 hours on the phone to book this, and only because the computer finally priced it:
Caribbean - North America - Caribbean (out biz, return econ) 47.5k miles
SDQ-JFK-SFO-YVR (dest) (OJ)
PDX-CLT-CMH (stop)
CMH-EWR-SDQ
On a separate note, I had a problem with one of the legs, and I tried taking it to social media instead - - a United twitter agent said, "this should have never booked in the first place. The open jaw and stopover should have made this book as 2 separate awards" EVEN THE TWITTER AGENTS!
#2438
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: En Route
Programs: Many
Posts: 6,798
I want to believe it is that United agents are simply so stupid and poorly trained that they don't know the rules of the program they work for, but part of me thinks there are directives from the top ordering them to play dumb and try to frustrate us into not using our miles until they become worthless. Yet another reason I am burning all my UA miles and walking away from this joke of an airline.
#2439
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,396
On a separate note, I had a problem with one of the legs, and I tried taking it to social media instead - - a United twitter agent said, "this should have never booked in the first place. The open jaw and stopover should have made this book as 2 separate awards" EVEN THE TWITTER AGENTS!
I couldn't believe it. So, you think this routing is illegal - so that makes it ok to overcharge fees that should have never been charged. And you rationalize that by saying the agent "worked really hard" even though I always call in with all the segments and the agents just confirm them and book the ticket.
Of course, I just HUCA - and the next agent looked at it and refunded me immediately.
#2440
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 29,760
Could the experts offer their opinions on the following?
1) MIA-PEK stopover BKK-CDG or FRA or where TG has F service to Europe, stopover in Europe, then Europe to MIA. I would like to have an OJ in Asia, such as between PEK and PVR, to fly PVG-BKK-CDG/FRA.
In this case, which is the stopover and which is the destination?
I believe CA flies from either JFK or IAH to PEK. Haven't checked if TG flies between PEK/PVG and BKK.
Is this routing legal, or having an OJ in the Asia portion would cause trouble? I keep seeing itineraries booked crossing 2 oceans, i.e. to/from Europe via Asia. Yet there are also itineraries being shot down by the "crossing 2 oceans turns it to RTW" rule.
Exactly what would trigger this?
2) So I would search availability by city pair on the potential routing(s) and then use the info to choose the flights when putting the itinerary together using multi-city function.
3) When I start booking it, can Multi-city function handles the stopover and OJ?
4) I read about one has booked every city pair as a one-way then call UA to piece them together - unless I somehow can use the PayPal trick or whatever to put these itineraries on hold instead of ticketing, I cannot see this is a viable approach.
More like if I book a complete itinerary, then call to modify it to one includes the OJ if needed. Is that right?
Many thanks for your help.
1) MIA-PEK stopover BKK-CDG or FRA or where TG has F service to Europe, stopover in Europe, then Europe to MIA. I would like to have an OJ in Asia, such as between PEK and PVR, to fly PVG-BKK-CDG/FRA.
In this case, which is the stopover and which is the destination?
I believe CA flies from either JFK or IAH to PEK. Haven't checked if TG flies between PEK/PVG and BKK.
Is this routing legal, or having an OJ in the Asia portion would cause trouble? I keep seeing itineraries booked crossing 2 oceans, i.e. to/from Europe via Asia. Yet there are also itineraries being shot down by the "crossing 2 oceans turns it to RTW" rule.
Exactly what would trigger this?
2) So I would search availability by city pair on the potential routing(s) and then use the info to choose the flights when putting the itinerary together using multi-city function.
3) When I start booking it, can Multi-city function handles the stopover and OJ?
4) I read about one has booked every city pair as a one-way then call UA to piece them together - unless I somehow can use the PayPal trick or whatever to put these itineraries on hold instead of ticketing, I cannot see this is a viable approach.
More like if I book a complete itinerary, then call to modify it to one includes the OJ if needed. Is that right?
Many thanks for your help.
Last edited by Happy; Dec 1, 2013 at 3:27 pm
#2441
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 40
I am trying to book a trip next July to South Korea/China and the UAE or Malaysia/Singapore and the UAE. I am leaning more towards to Malaysia/Singapore because the mile increase will be larger there. Here is a sample itinerary I am trying to book online:
MCI-SFO-TPE-KUL
SIN-DXB
DXB-VIE-ORD-MCI
The main problem I am having is there seems to be lack of domestic availability getting back to MCI, no matter what I look. Online the best I can seem to book is:
MCI-SFO-TPE-KUL
SIN-DXB
DXB-VIE-ORD
The above itinerary does price out correctly and would let me book it. I was thinking about booking it, and then immediately calling and requesting a change to last leg and try to get to MCI. I am mainly worried about the 4 segment rule. Looking at award availability it seems that there is no saver seats for any direct flight from ORD to MCI. There is some availability going from ORD-DEN-MCI, but then the leg will become DXB-VIE-ORD-DEN-MCI which I am not sure is legal. Will UA let me book this? I am not seeing any availability on the direct DXB-IAD flight either. I have tried searching through direct flights
Should I wait before booking this? I am a little surprised that there is no availability getting back to MCI. Has UA just not released the seats yet? I'm worried waiting to book for too long, that the long haul flights will end up taken. Worst case scenario I could just buy a cheap one way ORD-MCI ticket.
Anyone have any other ideas of trying to make this itinerary work? I can go the other way around (ie MCI-DXB-SIN/KUL-MCI) if that makes it easier. I am just not finding anything.
MCI-SFO-TPE-KUL
SIN-DXB
DXB-VIE-ORD-MCI
The main problem I am having is there seems to be lack of domestic availability getting back to MCI, no matter what I look. Online the best I can seem to book is:
MCI-SFO-TPE-KUL
SIN-DXB
DXB-VIE-ORD
The above itinerary does price out correctly and would let me book it. I was thinking about booking it, and then immediately calling and requesting a change to last leg and try to get to MCI. I am mainly worried about the 4 segment rule. Looking at award availability it seems that there is no saver seats for any direct flight from ORD to MCI. There is some availability going from ORD-DEN-MCI, but then the leg will become DXB-VIE-ORD-DEN-MCI which I am not sure is legal. Will UA let me book this? I am not seeing any availability on the direct DXB-IAD flight either. I have tried searching through direct flights
Should I wait before booking this? I am a little surprised that there is no availability getting back to MCI. Has UA just not released the seats yet? I'm worried waiting to book for too long, that the long haul flights will end up taken. Worst case scenario I could just buy a cheap one way ORD-MCI ticket.
Anyone have any other ideas of trying to make this itinerary work? I can go the other way around (ie MCI-DXB-SIN/KUL-MCI) if that makes it easier. I am just not finding anything.
#2442
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SFO
Posts: 6
Have we got any information for what stopover rules will be after Feb 1, 2014?
Here is the only official thing I could find from United:
"A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the continental U.S., Alaska and Canada. For travel booked on or after February 1, 2014, a stopover is permitted only on certain roundtrip itineraries. Additional mileage may be required." Source
I can't find anything else on their website or the points blogosphere that explains how United determines which roundtrips are eligible for a stopover.
Here is the only official thing I could find from United:
"A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the continental U.S., Alaska and Canada. For travel booked on or after February 1, 2014, a stopover is permitted only on certain roundtrip itineraries. Additional mileage may be required." Source
I can't find anything else on their website or the points blogosphere that explains how United determines which roundtrips are eligible for a stopover.
#2443
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 26
With regards to the "free one-way" rules, does this apply too for flights originating outside the U.S? I'm hoping to book ATH-JTR, JTR-ATH (stopover), ATH-IST.
I tried it on united.com, but it's not searching any Aegean flights, so I'm guessing I would have to call to book this.
I tried it on united.com, but it's not searching any Aegean flights, so I'm guessing I would have to call to book this.
#2444
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 37
With regards to the "free one-way" rules, does this apply too for flights originating outside the U.S? I'm hoping to book ATH-JTR, JTR-ATH (stopover), ATH-IST.
I tried it on united.com, but it's not searching any Aegean flights, so I'm guessing I would have to call to book this.
I tried it on united.com, but it's not searching any Aegean flights, so I'm guessing I would have to call to book this.
Have we got any information for what stopover rules will be after Feb 1, 2014?
Here is the only official thing I could find from United:
"A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the continental U.S., Alaska and Canada. For travel booked on or after February 1, 2014, a stopover is permitted only on certain roundtrip itineraries. Additional mileage may be required." Source
I can't find anything else on their website or the points blogosphere that explains how United determines which roundtrips are eligible for a stopover.
Here is the only official thing I could find from United:
"A stopover is permitted on roundtrip award travel only. One stopover is permitted, unless otherwise noted. Additional mileage may be required for Saver Awards within the continental U.S., Alaska and Canada. For travel booked on or after February 1, 2014, a stopover is permitted only on certain roundtrip itineraries. Additional mileage may be required." Source
I can't find anything else on their website or the points blogosphere that explains how United determines which roundtrips are eligible for a stopover.
#2445
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,373
Is there consensus on whether an open jaw at the destination counts as one of the 4 (or 5) segments? I see posts interpreting this both ways. Also, if it does count as a segment, I wonder whether there's flexibility about whether it counts toward the inbound or the outbound?