Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
#2266
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: UA S
Posts: 1,335
Does anyone know how UK APD is calculated for an OJ? I'm looking to do SFO-BKK,BKK-LHR (OJ) AMS-SFO in J. Since I'm not actually flying out of the UK it seems like nothing should be charged, but it seems like people have had experiences both ways.
#2267
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ORD,TPE (芝加哥,台北)
Programs: UA MileagePlus (1P)
Posts: 384
AFAIK the APD is only applied on the UK departing flights. That's why you are not charged. I believe there were some bloggers actually suggested this way by flying into UK but not out of UK to avoid APD.
#2268
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Glob, MR Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 443
I'm trying to book this routing:
ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)
The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:
ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)
The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:
ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
#2269
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: AS 75k, OW Emerald, Hyatt Globalist, HHonors Gold, National EE
Posts: 303
I'm trying to book this routing:
ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)
The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:
ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)
The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:
ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
SFO-IAH-IST(stopover)-FRA-BKK-SGN(dest)
SGN-SIN-CGK-ICN-JFK
It just took a few calls. Try simplifying a bit first, then calling and changing. Or do what I've done -- switch the order of the destination and open jaw. Make the outbound through Europe your stopover (if you can), then fly to NRT and back. That'll be closer to what I got booked with little issue.
#2270
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Glob, MR Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 443
Call again, but the problem might be more that NRT and BKK might be bad open jaw pairs. Others may disagree. That said, I've seen crazier routings booked. It might take a few as they'll say that you are crossing two oceans, non-direct routing, etc., but it'll work. I'm booked the opposite of that right now:
SFO-IAH-IST(stopover)-FRA-BKK-SGN(dest)
SGN-SIN-CGK-ICN-JFK
It just took a few calls. Try simplifying a bit first, then calling and changing. Or do what I've done -- switch the order of the destination and open jaw. Make the outbound through Europe your stopover (if you can), then fly to NRT and back. That'll be closer to what I got booked with little issue.
SFO-IAH-IST(stopover)-FRA-BKK-SGN(dest)
SGN-SIN-CGK-ICN-JFK
It just took a few calls. Try simplifying a bit first, then calling and changing. Or do what I've done -- switch the order of the destination and open jaw. Make the outbound through Europe your stopover (if you can), then fly to NRT and back. That'll be closer to what I got booked with little issue.
#2271
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 37
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Having said that, I am trying to book BKK-NAN (destination)-BKK (stopover)-NRT.
For BKK-NAN, I managed to get 5 segments in. However, the agent said I was allowed only 5 segments total for the NAN-BKK (stopover)-NRT legs.
Could anyone confirm this is correct? I had planned 5 segments from NAN-BKK and another 5 for BKK-NRT. Does it work this way?
Thanks.
#2272
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM, Ex-TX/ CA
Programs: Ex CO/ UA Gold, Hotels.. TBD
Posts: 734
Good question. It definitely is a stopover for sure if you're there more than 24 hours. As to whether it counts as to one of your 2 open jaws, I think the answer is no; however, I would not be surprised if this requires the HUACA strategy.
The only other point I made, which is something I've seen made recently is that any time you have an open jaw in the middle of your itinerary that forces the same open jaw to also be a stopover. So to put it succinctly:
--All open jaws not at the origin or destination are stopovers
--Not all stopovers are open jaws
The only other point I made, which is something I've seen made recently is that any time you have an open jaw in the middle of your itinerary that forces the same open jaw to also be a stopover. So to put it succinctly:
--All open jaws not at the origin or destination are stopovers
--Not all stopovers are open jaws
PS: What is this APD business, how big of a charge is it? Why do people avoid it?
And what are the strategies to avoid it?
#2273
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
Just spoke with an agent from Manilla and he was telling me that an internal e-mail issued last year allows round trip and multi-stop award tickets only 5 segments (4 stops) per direction.
Having said that, I am trying to book BKK-NAN (destination)-BKK (stopover)-NRT.
For BKK-NAN, I managed to get 5 segments in. However, the agent said I was allowed only 5 segments total for the NAN-BKK (stopover)-NRT legs.
Could anyone confirm this is correct? I had planned 5 segments from NAN-BKK and another 5 for BKK-NRT. Does it work this way?
Thanks.
Having said that, I am trying to book BKK-NAN (destination)-BKK (stopover)-NRT.
For BKK-NAN, I managed to get 5 segments in. However, the agent said I was allowed only 5 segments total for the NAN-BKK (stopover)-NRT legs.
Could anyone confirm this is correct? I had planned 5 segments from NAN-BKK and another 5 for BKK-NRT. Does it work this way?
Thanks.
#2274
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: UA1K MM, JL JMB SAPPHIRE, Marriott Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,267
I'm not totally sure you're allowed to do this. If you can it will price at best as two one-ways: North America -> Europe plus Europe -> South America. This might be one case where a stopover in the same region as the origin in between two destinations in separate regions might break the rules.
#2275
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,923
Just booked TPA-CLT-YYZ-MUC-FRA-EDI/-IST//ASM-IST-IAH-CLT-TPA...
and SHARES priced it without issue.
and SHARES priced it without issue.
#2277
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
I'm trying to book the following:
Santa Ana-EWR (< 24 hours)
JFK-FRA-NGO (destination)
NGO-PEK-FRA (stopover)
FRA-JFK (< 24 hours)
EWR-San Diego
Would this be a legal routing?
I'd like to use my ~65K miles before the devaluation.
I couldn't find any seats for this Xmas other than the routing above.....
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Santa Ana-EWR (< 24 hours)
JFK-FRA-NGO (destination)
NGO-PEK-FRA (stopover)
FRA-JFK (< 24 hours)
EWR-San Diego
Would this be a legal routing?
I'd like to use my ~65K miles before the devaluation.
I couldn't find any seats for this Xmas other than the routing above.....
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
#2278
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,923
I'm trying to book the following:
Santa Ana-EWR (< 24 hours)
JFK-FRA-NGO (destination)
NGO-PEK-FRA (stopover)
FRA-JFK (< 24 hours)
EWR-San Diego
Would this be a legal routing?
I'd like to use my ~65K miles before the devaluation.
I couldn't find any seats for this Xmas other than the routing above.....
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Santa Ana-EWR (< 24 hours)
JFK-FRA-NGO (destination)
NGO-PEK-FRA (stopover)
FRA-JFK (< 24 hours)
EWR-San Diego
Would this be a legal routing?
I'd like to use my ~65K miles before the devaluation.
I couldn't find any seats for this Xmas other than the routing above.....
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
#2279
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Jose Cuervo Gold, Bud Light Platinum, Schwab 401K, VW Bug 2MM
Posts: 1,100
I'm trying to book this routing:
ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)
The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:
ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)
The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:
ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
LAX-ICN-TPE (dest/OJ), NRT-BKK-CDG, CDG-YUL-LAX
took five calls
not true that you cant go through europe back to. For some reason when I gave them two open jaws it really confused the agent. Perhaps try with one open jaw, get it booked, and call back and add the second open jaw
#2280
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,167