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Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)

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Old Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
FlyerTalk Forums Expert How-Tos and Guides
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)

Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.

Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.

Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).

Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.

Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No

Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this

Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.

Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.

Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.

Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.

Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.

Other notes:
  • The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
  • For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
  • Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.

Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.

Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/

Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":

CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA

This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
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Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)

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Old Nov 8, 2013, 10:47 am
  #2266  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: SFO
Programs: UA S
Posts: 1,335
Does anyone know how UK APD is calculated for an OJ? I'm looking to do SFO-BKK,BKK-LHR (OJ) AMS-SFO in J. Since I'm not actually flying out of the UK it seems like nothing should be charged, but it seems like people have had experiences both ways.
whakojacko is offline  
Old Nov 8, 2013, 11:14 am
  #2267  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: ORD,TPE (芝加哥,台北)
Programs: UA MileagePlus (1P)
Posts: 384
Originally Posted by whakojacko
Does anyone know how UK APD is calculated for an OJ? I'm looking to do SFO-BKK,BKK-LHR (OJ) AMS-SFO in J. Since I'm not actually flying out of the UK it seems like nothing should be charged, but it seems like people have had experiences both ways.
AFAIK the APD is only applied on the UK departing flights. That's why you are not charged. I believe there were some bloggers actually suggested this way by flying into UK but not out of UK to avoid APD.
cchuang1980 is offline  
Old Nov 8, 2013, 3:02 pm
  #2268  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Glob, MR Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 443
I'm trying to book this routing:

ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)

The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:

ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
andreiz is offline  
Old Nov 8, 2013, 4:08 pm
  #2269  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: AS 75k, OW Emerald, Hyatt Globalist, HHonors Gold, National EE
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by andreiz
I'm trying to book this routing:

ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)

The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:

ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
Call again, but the problem might be more that NRT and BKK might be bad open jaw pairs. Others may disagree. That said, I've seen crazier routings booked. It might take a few as they'll say that you are crossing two oceans, non-direct routing, etc., but it'll work. I'm booked the opposite of that right now:

SFO-IAH-IST(stopover)-FRA-BKK-SGN(dest)
SGN-SIN-CGK-ICN-JFK

It just took a few calls. Try simplifying a bit first, then calling and changing. Or do what I've done -- switch the order of the destination and open jaw. Make the outbound through Europe your stopover (if you can), then fly to NRT and back. That'll be closer to what I got booked with little issue.
enki is offline  
Old Nov 8, 2013, 4:21 pm
  #2270  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SEA
Programs: BA Gold, Hyatt Glob, MR Plat, HH Diamond, IHG Amb
Posts: 443
Originally Posted by enki
Call again, but the problem might be more that NRT and BKK might be bad open jaw pairs. Others may disagree. That said, I've seen crazier routings booked. It might take a few as they'll say that you are crossing two oceans, non-direct routing, etc., but it'll work. I'm booked the opposite of that right now:

SFO-IAH-IST(stopover)-FRA-BKK-SGN(dest)
SGN-SIN-CGK-ICN-JFK

It just took a few calls. Try simplifying a bit first, then calling and changing. Or do what I've done -- switch the order of the destination and open jaw. Make the outbound through Europe your stopover (if you can), then fly to NRT and back. That'll be closer to what I got booked with little issue.
Yeah, I've had a few calls in already. Can the problem be that my stopover in CDG is 5 months long compared to only a few days at destination (NRT)?
andreiz is offline  
Old Nov 8, 2013, 9:46 pm
  #2271  
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 37
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Just spoke with an agent from Manilla and he was telling me that an internal e-mail issued last year allows round trip and multi-stop award tickets only 5 segments (4 stops) per direction.

Having said that, I am trying to book BKK-NAN (destination)-BKK (stopover)-NRT.

For BKK-NAN, I managed to get 5 segments in. However, the agent said I was allowed only 5 segments total for the NAN-BKK (stopover)-NRT legs.

Could anyone confirm this is correct? I had planned 5 segments from NAN-BKK and another 5 for BKK-NRT. Does it work this way?

Thanks.
JA8589 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 4:40 am
  #2272  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BOM, Ex-TX/ CA
Programs: Ex CO/ UA Gold, Hotels.. TBD
Posts: 734
Originally Posted by astroflyer
Good question. It definitely is a stopover for sure if you're there more than 24 hours. As to whether it counts as to one of your 2 open jaws, I think the answer is no; however, I would not be surprised if this requires the HUACA strategy.

The only other point I made, which is something I've seen made recently is that any time you have an open jaw in the middle of your itinerary that forces the same open jaw to also be a stopover. So to put it succinctly:
--All open jaws not at the origin or destination are stopovers
--Not all stopovers are open jaws
Well put But then, who determines what is DESTINATION and HOW? For a multi city return routing, I can barely figure out which is which. What are the parameters for that?

PS: What is this APD business, how big of a charge is it? Why do people avoid it?
And what are the strategies to avoid it?
Originally Posted by whakojacko
Does anyone know how UK APD is calculated for an OJ? I'm looking to do SFO-BKK,BKK-LHR (OJ) AMS-SFO in J. Since I'm not actually flying out of the UK it seems like nothing should be charged, but it seems like people have had experiences both ways.
Originally Posted by cchuang1980
AFAIK the APD is only applied on the UK departing flights. That's why you are not charged. I believe there were some bloggers actually suggested this way by flying into UK but not out of UK to avoid APD.
xmlsoa is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 4:59 am
  #2273  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
Originally Posted by JA8589
Just spoke with an agent from Manilla and he was telling me that an internal e-mail issued last year allows round trip and multi-stop award tickets only 5 segments (4 stops) per direction.

Having said that, I am trying to book BKK-NAN (destination)-BKK (stopover)-NRT.

For BKK-NAN, I managed to get 5 segments in. However, the agent said I was allowed only 5 segments total for the NAN-BKK (stopover)-NRT legs.

Could anyone confirm this is correct? I had planned 5 segments from NAN-BKK and another 5 for BKK-NRT. Does it work this way?

Thanks.
I admire your moxie but 5 segments each direction on a r/t is what we're limited to these days.... except when agents claim it's 4 segments.
dsquared37 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 3:07 pm
  #2274  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: YYZ
Programs: UA1K MM, JL JMB SAPPHIRE, Marriott Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,267
Originally Posted by astroflyer
I'm not totally sure you're allowed to do this. If you can it will price at best as two one-ways: North America -> Europe plus Europe -> South America. This might be one case where a stopover in the same region as the origin in between two destinations in separate regions might break the rules.
It costs me 147500 miles, yyz-europe-yyz in F, yyz-scl in I.
gokeeper is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 4:36 pm
  #2275  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,923
Just booked TPA-CLT-YYZ-MUC-FRA-EDI/-IST//ASM-IST-IAH-CLT-TPA...

and SHARES priced it without issue.
MatthewLAX is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 4:49 pm
  #2276  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,396
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Just booked TPA-CLT-YYZ-MUC-FRA-EDI/-IST//ASM-IST-IAH-CLT-TPA...

and SHARES priced it without issue.
Shocked!

Sounds like a great trip! Enjoy!

I'll be on YYZ-MUC (LHF) and IST-IAH (TKBusiness) in September (on the way to LHR and CPT) - so maybe we'll cross paths.
CFFrost is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 5:46 pm
  #2277  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
I'm trying to book the following:
Santa Ana-EWR (< 24 hours)
JFK-FRA-NGO (destination)
NGO-PEK-FRA (stopover)
FRA-JFK (< 24 hours)
EWR-San Diego
Would this be a legal routing?

I'd like to use my ~65K miles before the devaluation.
I couldn't find any seats for this Xmas other than the routing above.....
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
ICIC2005 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 7:48 pm
  #2278  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Los Angeles / Basel
Programs: UA 1K MM, AA EXP, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 26,923
Originally Posted by ICIC2005
I'm trying to book the following:
Santa Ana-EWR (< 24 hours)
JFK-FRA-NGO (destination)
NGO-PEK-FRA (stopover)
FRA-JFK (< 24 hours)
EWR-San Diego
Would this be a legal routing?

I'd like to use my ~65K miles before the devaluation.
I couldn't find any seats for this Xmas other than the routing above.....
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Yes, it should price since you are not going through S. Asia. You'll have to call in to complete the reservation but should be able to have the phone fee waived. SHARES is actually not that bad at pricing despite co-terminal points (including JFK / EWR)
MatthewLAX is offline  
Old Nov 9, 2013, 10:06 pm
  #2279  
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: Jose Cuervo Gold, Bud Light Platinum, Schwab 401K, VW Bug 2MM
Posts: 1,100
Originally Posted by andreiz
I'm trying to book this routing:

ORD-NRT (destination)
NRT-BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-LAX (open jaw)

The agent said this would require two tickets because I can't go from NRT back to US via Europe (not the most direct routing). Is there anything I can do to fix the routing? I considered this:

ORD-NRT (destination + open jaw)
BKK-CDG (stopover + open jaw)
MUC-YYZ-ORD
I was able to book a similar itinerary
LAX-ICN-TPE (dest/OJ), NRT-BKK-CDG, CDG-YUL-LAX

took five calls
not true that you cant go through europe back to. For some reason when I gave them two open jaws it really confused the agent. Perhaps try with one open jaw, get it booked, and call back and add the second open jaw
exmike is offline  
Old Nov 10, 2013, 1:54 am
  #2280  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,167
Originally Posted by MatthewLAX
Just booked TPA-CLT-YYZ-MUC-FRA-EDI/-IST//ASM-IST-IAH-CLT-TPA...

and SHARES priced it without issue.


Did you book this segment by segment, or did the site suggest such a crazy routing?

Worthy of a how-to blog post!
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