Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Jun 12, 2013, 7:38 am
#1486
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
I called on 10 June, 2103 to ticket this RT MP award (US-INDIA-US) award itinerary. Agent quoted me fare/taxes, and I proceeded to give credit card info. Credit card was charged and my MP account confirmed that this was purchased.
"Thank you for choosing United Airlines. Your purchase is confirmed. You will be promptly notified once the internal processing of your reservation has been finalized so that you can request additional receipts, export to Microsoft Outlook, refund or change your flight, view/change seats, check-in, or email or print your itinerary."
As of yet it does not show that it was ticketed and no email confirmation of purchase. Can I presume that this was in fact purchased? Should I call or be concerned at this point?
"Thank you for choosing United Airlines. Your purchase is confirmed. You will be promptly notified once the internal processing of your reservation has been finalized so that you can request additional receipts, export to Microsoft Outlook, refund or change your flight, view/change seats, check-in, or email or print your itinerary."
As of yet it does not show that it was ticketed and no email confirmation of purchase. Can I presume that this was in fact purchased? Should I call or be concerned at this point?
Jun 12, 2013, 8:28 am
#1487
Join Date: Nov 2004
Programs: UA 1K (Million Miler). AA Gold (lifetime 1 Million). TK Elite Gold
Posts: 894
Can MP now state that there is a problem with the itinerary having quoted me a full itinerary with taxes? Can I hold them to what they quoted?
Jun 12, 2013, 8:30 am
#1488
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
Thanks for the prompt reply. If there is a problem with the ticketing as to taxes, can I hold UA MP to what was quoted me and to what they debited my CC for?
Can MP now state that there is a problem with the itinerary having quoted me a full itinerary with taxes? Can I hold them to what they quoted?
Can MP now state that there is a problem with the itinerary having quoted me a full itinerary with taxes? Can I hold them to what they quoted?
Others have much more experience with this, so I'll let them add more details.
Jun 12, 2013, 11:27 am
#1489
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
HNL to LHR via SFO connection (stopover)
FCO to NRT (destination - OJ used)
NRT to HNL
UA Award chart shows RT between Hawaii and Japan in business saver at 65k miles. Do you think the above itinerary will qualify at that mileage level? How would it impact the total miles required if the last leg is changed to NRT to SFO instead? Would it be 92,500 miles (0.5 * 65000 + 0.5 * 120000 = 92,500)? Thanks.
Jun 12, 2013, 11:32 am
#1490
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Programs: UA Miles+, AAdvantage, Skymiles
Posts: 217
I know AA allows stopovers on one way awards, but does UA?
If not, that's ok.....I currently have 65,000 UA miles...enough for (my 6th!) roundtrip to BKK.....are there any routes that anyone knows of on United or its Partners which stopover in Hawaii (preferably originating in nyc)?
Side Note - my last trip to BKK in December, I used 32,500 for JFK - BKK then got a $299 flight BKK - JFK on Aerosvit! Sad they went out of business
....im not about glamor, but all about budget! Sometimes airlines have really great deals BKK - JFK, but not JFK - BKK....haven't seen any since aerosvit though...anyone know of any airlines currently with these occasional super deals? Lots of questions in 1 - just figured there is no need to post twice! Thanks.
If not, that's ok.....I currently have 65,000 UA miles...enough for (my 6th!) roundtrip to BKK.....are there any routes that anyone knows of on United or its Partners which stopover in Hawaii (preferably originating in nyc)?
Side Note - my last trip to BKK in December, I used 32,500 for JFK - BKK then got a $299 flight BKK - JFK on Aerosvit! Sad they went out of business
....im not about glamor, but all about budget! Sometimes airlines have really great deals BKK - JFK, but not JFK - BKK....haven't seen any since aerosvit though...anyone know of any airlines currently with these occasional super deals? Lots of questions in 1 - just figured there is no need to post twice! Thanks.
Jun 12, 2013, 11:59 am
#1491
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
Just to push the envelope a bit further, if I changed the itinerary to start from Honolulu (HNL), would the following be allowed?
HNL to LHR via SFO connection (stopover)
FCO to NRT (destination - OJ used)
NRT to HNL
UA Award chart shows RT between Hawaii and Japan in business saver at 65k miles. Do you think the above itinerary will qualify at that mileage level? How would it impact the total miles required if the last leg is changed to NRT to SFO instead? Would it be 92,500 miles (0.5 * 65000 + 0.5 * 120000 = 92,500)? Thanks.
HNL to LHR via SFO connection (stopover)
FCO to NRT (destination - OJ used)
NRT to HNL
UA Award chart shows RT between Hawaii and Japan in business saver at 65k miles. Do you think the above itinerary will qualify at that mileage level? How would it impact the total miles required if the last leg is changed to NRT to SFO instead? Would it be 92,500 miles (0.5 * 65000 + 0.5 * 120000 = 92,500)? Thanks.
On the mileage front, I don't think you can simply decide which counts as your destination and which as your stopover. I would suspect that the HNL-LHR//FCO-NRT-HNL would price out as the higher of the two zones you're stopping in, so as a Hawaii to Europe RT (115k). If you instead did HNL-LHR//FCO-NRT-SFO I suspect it would price out as Hawaii-Europe (57.5k) plus Europe-N. America (50k), so 107.5k total.
Jun 12, 2013, 12:54 pm
#1492
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
HNL-SFO(stop)-LHR(stop and open jaw)//FCO-NRT(stop/destination/whatever)-HNL
You get two stops (one at the destination and one as your stopover, which might also be an open jaw). If you eliminated the stopover in SFO (i.e., left for LHR within 24 hours of arriving from HNL), it would theoretically be a round trip award with a stopover and an open jaw (occurring at the same point). How it would price, I won't guess.
Jun 12, 2013, 1:05 pm
#1493
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
My reading of your itinerary has three stops:
HNL-SFO(stop)-LHR(stop and open jaw)//FCO-NRT(stop/destination/whatever)-HNL
You get two stops (one at the destination and one as your stopover, which might also be an open jaw). If you eliminated the stopover in SFO (i.e., left for LHR within 24 hours of arriving from HNL), it would theoretically be a round trip award with a stopover and an open jaw (occurring at the same point). How it would price, I won't guess.
HNL-SFO(stop)-LHR(stop and open jaw)//FCO-NRT(stop/destination/whatever)-HNL
You get two stops (one at the destination and one as your stopover, which might also be an open jaw). If you eliminated the stopover in SFO (i.e., left for LHR within 24 hours of arriving from HNL), it would theoretically be a round trip award with a stopover and an open jaw (occurring at the same point). How it would price, I won't guess.
Jun 12, 2013, 1:19 pm
#1494
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3
Thanks to alex_b and mtkeller. I never thought about the possibility that UA would price it at the higher of the two zones. You guys are really good.
HNL to LHR via SFO was just a connection, not a stopover, so I think I'm good there. I guess I'll need to call UA to figure out how they price the itinerary.
HNL to LHR via SFO was just a connection, not a stopover, so I think I'm good there. I guess I'll need to call UA to figure out how they price the itinerary.
Jun 12, 2013, 2:09 pm
#1495
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SUX
Programs: BA Silver; HHonors Gold; SPG Gold; Points but dirt with everyone else
Posts: 8,050
Thanks to alex_b and mtkeller. I never thought about the possibility that UA would price it at the higher of the two zones. You guys are really good.
HNL to LHR via SFO was just a connection, not a stopover, so I think I'm good there. I guess I'll need to call UA to figure out how they price the itinerary.
HNL to LHR via SFO was just a connection, not a stopover, so I think I'm good there. I guess I'll need to call UA to figure out how they price the itinerary.
Jun 13, 2013, 8:48 am
#1496
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 53
Need help please award routing question
ok so i been reading/skimming about the rules and last year people was posting about MPM and this year people saying that there is no MPM. is this true?
if this is true then I would be able to book a flight from HNL-IAH-MCO(stop)-SFO-KIX//KIX-HNL right?
this leads to my next question, if that is possible there is no saver award space from HNL-IAH-MCO, but there is MCO-SFO-KIX. so would I be able to still get business class for HNL.....KIX for 32.5k in all business or would it be HNl-IAH-MCO economy then MCO-SFO-KIX business for 32.5k or would it be 80k standard award for the whole thing?
if this is true then I would be able to book a flight from HNL-IAH-MCO(stop)-SFO-KIX//KIX-HNL right?
this leads to my next question, if that is possible there is no saver award space from HNL-IAH-MCO, but there is MCO-SFO-KIX. so would I be able to still get business class for HNL.....KIX for 32.5k in all business or would it be HNl-IAH-MCO economy then MCO-SFO-KIX business for 32.5k or would it be 80k standard award for the whole thing?
Jun 13, 2013, 9:01 am
#1497
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
Yes to the routing.
Without seeing what UA.com is giving you, I can't say quite what your price will be. It all depends on specific availability per leg.
Without seeing what UA.com is giving you, I can't say quite what your price will be. It all depends on specific availability per leg.
Jun 13, 2013, 9:55 am
#1498
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
this leads to my next question, if that is possible there is no saver award space from HNL-IAH-MCO, but there is MCO-SFO-KIX. so would I be able to still get business class for HNL.....KIX for 32.5k in all business or would it be HNl-IAH-MCO economy then MCO-SFO-KIX business for 32.5k or would it be 80k standard award for the whole thing?
You may redeem miles for travel in United Global FirstSM, United First®, United Business® or United BusinessFirst , even if the space is not available. In these cases, United Economy in the same award type must be confirmed, and the front cabin will be waitlisted. For example, a Saver United First award must be confirmed in Saver United Economy to be eligible for waitlisting. If the courtesy waitlist does not clear, it will expire 24 hours before itinerary departure, and you will automatically be added to the airport upgrade standby list upon check-in. In these cases, you will be confirmed on a space-available basis by a United airport representative at the gate once the flight has closed for check-in. For United BusinessFirst and United Business travel awards, the difference in miles will be refunded when the United BusinessFirst or United Business class segment of the trip could not be confirmed. Waitlist requests may only be made over the phone with your local United Reservations office.
Jun 13, 2013, 10:57 am
#1499
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1
Booking a flight with stopover and layover?
Hi. This is my first time posting. I'm looking to book a trip to Asia for next year and would like to maximize my united miles. I was able to book on the united website a flight from NYC to Beijing, Beijing to Tokyo (stopover), and Tokyo to NYC for 65K miles. I would like to add a short layover in the trip, maybe Seoul for a day, but the website won't allow it. Is it possible to book a reward flight with stopover and layover?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Jun 13, 2013, 12:17 pm
#1500
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,834
Welcome to FT!, sammyNYC
On an UA MP RT (round-trip) award, you are allowed in addition to the destination, one stopover (>24 hours) (and two open-jaws -- probably not relevant in this situation).
This can be done online using the multiple destination option. Adding it to an existing reservation should be possible but the online system can sometimes give up in more complex situation and you may need to call. Additionally there a certain limitations -- such as backtracking, ... that may become an issue. The very small fine print of award travel is very detailed and we would need to have more info about the exact routing before being certain.
Give UA a call and see what they say.
... I was able to book on the united website a flight from NYC to Beijing, Beijing to Tokyo (stopover), and Tokyo to NYC for 65K miles. I would like to add a short layover in the trip, maybe Seoul for a day, but the website won't allow it. Is it possible to book a reward flight with stopover and layover? ....
This can be done online using the multiple destination option. Adding it to an existing reservation should be possible but the online system can sometimes give up in more complex situation and you may need to call. Additionally there a certain limitations -- such as backtracking, ... that may become an issue. The very small fine print of award travel is very detailed and we would need to have more info about the exact routing before being certain.
Give UA a call and see what they say.