Dear United: Welcome to competition (DL's new hub at LGA)
Dec 17, 2011, 8:05 am
#31
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: UA *G 1MM LT United Club & Global Entry
Posts: 2,756
Agreed - but *A flyers could be losing something too. US flights earn EQM's and RDM's for UACO elites; so reduced LGA flights might mean less overall *A earning opportunities for basic point to point travel, and constructing potential mileage runs.
SunLover
Dec 17, 2011, 9:49 am
#32
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,784
This is a terrific development. N.Y. is big enough for two hub carriers competing head-to-head, at the same time EWR and LGA serve altogether different markets that don't compete with each other. This is not a contradiction. A person in northern or central N.J. or Rockland County would not find LGA convenient, just as one from CT, Westchester, and L.I. would find EWR highly unpalatable. But there will be tremendous competition for the Manhattan traffic. I still remember those nasty DL versus CO subway ads when they were ST partners.
Overall, EWR is an efficient hub, but it is Newark. LGA is more convenient from Manhattan (I hate the Lincoln/Holland Tunnels, and the Amtrak-AirTrain setup is not as convenient as LIRR/E/A-AirTrain to JFK). But DL will essentially be operating a two-airport hub, which is a tremendous disadvantage. In time, routes and frequencies will be adjusted, but I see both airlines at their respective airports for the long run.
Overall, EWR is an efficient hub, but it is Newark. LGA is more convenient from Manhattan (I hate the Lincoln/Holland Tunnels, and the Amtrak-AirTrain setup is not as convenient as LIRR/E/A-AirTrain to JFK). But DL will essentially be operating a two-airport hub, which is a tremendous disadvantage. In time, routes and frequencies will be adjusted, but I see both airlines at their respective airports for the long run.
Honestly, all NYC airports are awful, but EWR sucks the least, hence why I was a CO elite.
Dec 17, 2011, 10:28 am
#33
Join Date: Feb 2006
Programs: UA, Starwood, Priority Club, Hertz, Starbucks Gold Card
Posts: 3,952
You were by the Tappan Zee, which makes quite a difference. You could see Rockland from there. No other place in Westchester could beat your old place in terms of accessibility to Newark. 
I'll add that the availability of nonstop destinations also adds to the perception of convenience. LGA will never be able to match EWR because of the Perimeter Rule (no further west than SLC, PHX?). That's why the LGA-JFK duo is such a disadvantage, because one would have to mind themselves which airport to go to. But there is an ingrained culture among some New Yorkers that EWR is not a New York airport. This probably started with Mayor Fiorello La Guardia who once famously refused to get off the plane in EWR, saying that his ticket said "New York." I guess that's why they ended up naming the airport after him.
I'll add that the availability of nonstop destinations also adds to the perception of convenience. LGA will never be able to match EWR because of the Perimeter Rule (no further west than SLC, PHX?). That's why the LGA-JFK duo is such a disadvantage, because one would have to mind themselves which airport to go to. But there is an ingrained culture among some New Yorkers that EWR is not a New York airport. This probably started with Mayor Fiorello La Guardia who once famously refused to get off the plane in EWR, saying that his ticket said "New York." I guess that's why they ended up naming the airport after him.
Dec 17, 2011, 10:36 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,967
DL already spanks UA on product and quality. DL's RJs have tons of first class, glassware and mugs in F. An FA on Republic told me they serve hot meals on the delta ERJ-170s?
In any case, DL's aircraft are far superior choices while CO is stuffing people into turbo-props, Single Class RJs for 1,200 miles and 737s in the Pacific. UA is losing to DL already and as UA races to the bottom with bad coffee, gauze blankets and surly octogenarians tossing slop at you, UA will retreat even futher.
In any case, DL's aircraft are far superior choices while CO is stuffing people into turbo-props, Single Class RJs for 1,200 miles and 737s in the Pacific. UA is losing to DL already and as UA races to the bottom with bad coffee, gauze blankets and surly octogenarians tossing slop at you, UA will retreat even futher.
Still, with the horrible redemption on SkyMiles and no Y+ (at least yet), UA still works better for me.
Dec 17, 2011, 12:40 pm
#35
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia,PA
Programs: United 1K,Marriott Platinum Premier,IHC Platinum Ambassador,Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,898
DL is Not a Low Cost Carrier..So dont expect to see alot of cheap fares other than matching those already flown by LCC out of LGA..I see this move as more of a threat to AA/B6..Im sticking with UA..^
Dec 17, 2011, 3:15 pm
#36
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: UA Premier Platinum 1.4MM, Hertz PC, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 115
While CO has been busy yanking the tray linens off UA, removing pillows and covertly hiding blankets to save a penny or two, DL has retained blankets and pillows on each seat, added back tray linens to their service, and revamped their meals with a modern appearance with new china, funky new glassware, and new trays.
Then it happened again. And again. That's when I knew it was no accident or coincident; it was CO.
No linen definitely equals and inferior product in my opinion.
Dec 17, 2011, 3:37 pm
#37
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: UA Premier Platinum 1.4MM, Hertz PC, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 115
First, I applauded UA when they added E+ and First Class seating to RJs. Post 9/11, UA was very agressive in replacing mainline service with RJ service. No problem, I understood that.
Today, RJs are flying these long routes (3+ hours!!!) and you expect me to be coformtable in First Class with that snack box on such a flight? No way!
As a result, my threshold for an RJ flight is 1.5 hours. You can serve all the pre-packaged snackboxes all you want on those flights, as long as I have my red wine.
But if it's going to be longer than 1.5 hours, give me a real meal and then I'll change my attitude towards those long RJ flights.
Dec 17, 2011, 8:38 pm
#39
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ORD, MKE
Programs: Bonvoy LT Gold, Hilton Silver, Hyatt Discoverist, Hertz PC, National EE
Posts: 710
UA/*A is our corporate preferred airline/alliance but DL/SkyTeam is 2nd. I have a new project in Liverpool which would be better served by SkyTeam, and it sounds like I should check them out.
The thought of an airline that might actually try to make five work weeks worth of flying not feel so much like work is very appealing.
Dec 17, 2011, 9:21 pm
#40
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New York, NY
Programs: AA AAdvantage, CO OnePass, DL SkyMiles, JetBlue TrueBlue, UA MileagePlus
Posts: 47
Honestly, I hope DL's LGA expansion forces UA/CO to lower fares a little. I'm a CO fan and EWR is cool, but man their fares are brutal.
Dec 18, 2011, 1:29 pm
#41
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CA, TX
Programs: UA-MP S, DL-PM, HHonors D, SPG Gold, Fairmont PC
Posts: 35
Not me! I agree with you! ^
First, I applauded UA when they added E+ and First Class seating to RJs. Post 9/11, UA was very agressive in replacing mainline service with RJ service. No problem, I understood that.
Today, RJs are flying these long routes (3+ hours!!!) and you expect me to be coformtable in First Class with that snack box on such a flight? No way!
As a result, my threshold for an RJ flight is 1.5 hours. You can serve all the pre-packaged snackboxes all you want on those flights, as long as I have my red wine. But if it's going to be longer than 1.5 hours, give me a real meal and then I'll change my attitude towards those long RJ flights.
First, I applauded UA when they added E+ and First Class seating to RJs. Post 9/11, UA was very agressive in replacing mainline service with RJ service. No problem, I understood that.
Today, RJs are flying these long routes (3+ hours!!!) and you expect me to be coformtable in First Class with that snack box on such a flight? No way!
As a result, my threshold for an RJ flight is 1.5 hours. You can serve all the pre-packaged snackboxes all you want on those flights, as long as I have my red wine.
But if it's going to be longer than 1.5 hours, give me a real meal and then I'll change my attitude towards those long RJ flights.
Dec 18, 2011, 2:37 pm
#42
Join Date: May 2001
Location: RDU
Programs: UA Plat 2MM, Delta Gold, Hilton Gold, Marriott cardboard
Posts: 1,699
I have to do RDU-MSP in July. As of today, DL has NF (or whatever they call it) on many of their NONSTOPs. UA has zilch + I have to connect, so would spend one extra night in MSP.
Looks like I'll be booking DL next week.
Looks like I'll be booking DL next week.
Dec 18, 2011, 9:27 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693
This is a point that should not be understated. DL has separate domestic and international hubs in NYC with no help or even interline baggage between them. UACO has one hub for NYC.
Dec 18, 2011, 11:04 pm
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
Dec 18, 2011, 11:24 pm
#45
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Plat, Marriott Gold
Posts: 12,693