Pending upgrade transparency

Old Nov 5, 11, 3:17 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by blue47 View Post
Several misconceptions seem to come up in these threads repeatedly.

1. Number 3 jumping ahead of number 1 probably does not happen frequently because it requires that both 1 and 3 are the same elite status and have tickets bought from the same fare bucket. Further, it requires that number three bought the ticket before number 1 and number 1 checked in before number 3.
It happens a lot more frequently than you think. I would say it happens on at least 50% of the CO flights I take. And I've got two coming up on Tuesday - one of which is zeroed out up front already and the other has F5 but R/RN=0 so both will have decent sized lists. I'll watch to see if it happens again - but I have seen it frequently.

Also remember that CO has an "automatic check-in" feature for return flights. It's highly conceivable that a lot of the higher ranked elites on the PDA list for upgrades used this feature and that's how they beat out the person doing a manual OLCI who still has the same fare bucket. The automatic check-in happens right at T-24 faster than any human can do it.

Originally Posted by blue47 View Post
2. Someone being upgraded before number 1 on the list is common. The persons getting the upgrade were never on the gate upgrade list as their upgrade occurred before or simultaneous with the check in. Using miles or money, or simply because of a higher status during an EUA run after T-24.
I think what you're saying here is someone *not on the online available list* being upgraded before #1. Sure, that happens a lot, too. It's possible they're upgraded at check-in but those are very rare because as soon as R/RN>0 and someone checks in EUA is run and the next person in the EUA list is upgraded, whether they are the one checking in or not.

Originally Posted by blue47 View Post
3. United transparency? You can't see the list, only that your upgrade is pending. You can check for upgrade bucket availability, and if you are inside the upgrade window know that you will be upgraded. You never see your position on the list. At T-24, it is the same as CO. Channa's posts seem more accurate than most in describing a kludge of bandaids designed to support an overly complex revenue management process.
I can't speak for UA's system because I'm a relative rookie on that side. However, UA still runs their own UDU system that is separate from CO's. Does UA have a separate UDU and battlefield upgrade process/system?

If you're comment about "at T-24, it's the same as CO" then the whole system is the same as CO because CO doesn't give you any access to the EUA list either. So CO/UA block that list until T-24 when the battlefield upgrade list takes over, even on UA. CO definitely put in some band aids to stop certain things from happening but that doesn't mean UA did the same thing.

-RM
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Old Nov 5, 11, 3:54 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by RobOnLI View Post
.... Does UA have a separate UDU and battlefield upgrade process/system? ....
Yes and the difference is also purchase time vs check-in time. HOWEVER the UDU stops running at about 4 hours before flight time. So airport/gate upgrades are all off one visible list. Being checked in is not a requirement for UDU.
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Old Nov 5, 11, 4:51 pm
  #18  
 
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Last edited by mrali05; Jan 1, 12 at 7:13 pm
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Old Nov 5, 11, 4:52 pm
  #19  
 
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I think what you're saying here is someone *not on the online available list* being upgraded before #1. Sure, that happens a lot, too. It's possible they're upgraded at check-in but those are very rare because as soon as R/RN>0 and someone checks in EUA is run and the next person in the EUA list is upgraded, whether they are the one checking in or not.
No, let me illustrate what I mean. There are 10 platinums who have not been upgraded, and 5 people who are lower elite on YB fares. None are checked in. They all plan to check in at the airport. You are gold on the "checked in" list and sitting number 1 with 8 seats open in first. Every time R/RN>0 and EUA is run, some of the 15 ahead of you show up on the upgrade list. Eventually, F is full and you think the system isn't working since you have been number one on the list all along. As long as EUA can still run, you have no idea of your position. The number on the upgrade list means absolutely nothing until the GA takes over the upgrades. This is decidedly not rare.
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Old Nov 5, 11, 4:56 pm
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I have a related question.

I used miles/dollars to get on the waitlist for an upgrade for an international flight.

The flight is now close enough that I can check its status on continental.com. When I go there, it shows the upgrade standby list is empty...but on my itinerary it still shows me as waitlisted.

????
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Old Nov 5, 11, 5:01 pm
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Originally Posted by blue47 View Post
No, let me illustrate what I mean. There are 10 platinums who have not been upgraded, and 5 people who are lower elite on YB fares. None are checked in. They all plan to check in at the airport. You are gold on the "checked in" list and sitting number 1 with 8 seats open in first. Every time R/RN>0 and EUA is run, some of the 15 ahead of you show up on the upgrade list. Eventually, F is full and you think the system isn't working since you have been number one on the list all along. As long as EUA can still run, you have no idea of your position. The number on the upgrade list means absolutely nothing until the GA takes over the upgrades. This is decidedly not rare.
Totally agree but you just reiterated my point. I was clarifying your initial statement by adding "*not on the online available list*". Your scenario above is exactly that - EUA ran and someone "*not on the online available list*" got the upgrade

-RM
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Old Nov 5, 11, 5:29 pm
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I had read what you said and associated the "rare" incorrectly. After rereading, I see that indeed I did only add an illustration to your correct analysis.
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Old Nov 5, 11, 7:03 pm
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So to confirm, y/b fares are the only way people jump the EUA line?
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Old Nov 5, 11, 7:15 pm
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Each time EUA is run, it looks at eligibility of everyone on the flight and available upgrade space released by revenue management. Y/B (elite) get upgraded ahead of Platinum. Those using miles or CR1 get upgraded ahead of Platinum. I am not sure this is considered "jumping the line".
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Old Nov 5, 11, 7:47 pm
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Originally Posted by electroflyer View Post
I have a related question.

I used miles/dollars to get on the waitlist for an upgrade for an international flight.

The flight is now close enough that I can check its status on continental.com. When I go there, it shows the upgrade standby list is empty...but on my itinerary it still shows me as waitlisted.

????
You will not show up on this list (there is a separate list) until you check-in.
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Old Nov 4, 12, 7:16 pm
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I probably could have posted this issue in another thread but couldn't find one that fit the situation. Also, I could have just ignored the issue, as in the end, my upgrade cleared
I have been waitlisted for a domestic upgrade for 3 weeks (using an expiring GPU) for a flight tomorrow. The upgrade never cleared. As expected I received the automated email notification:

We are not yet able to confirm your request for an upgrade on your flight from XXX to YYY. While your upgrade request will no longer appear in your reservation, you will automatically
be added to the upgrade standby list after you complete check-in and receive your boarding pass for this flight. Check in now
Rest assured that your position on the upgrade standby list will be preserved, even during the period before you check in and are added to the lists shown online and at the airport.
After checking in, use the United mobile app or go to united.com/info to view real-time upgrade standby lists.


I checked in and went to the mobile app and observed that I was #1 on the list. There were 10 other passengers below me. I took a screen shot of the listing.

1 hour later I checked back to see that the customer listed as #5 was upgraded and I was still #1.

After another hour I checked back and found that the customer listed as #3 was upgraded and I was still #1.

An hour later, I called the 1K desk and got the run around with both an agent and a supervisor that the mobile app upgrade standby list has nothing to do with priority and the passengers listed as #5 and #3 on the list could be GS.

Can anyone help me with this? Under what conditions could the passengers listed as priority #3 and #5 legitimately jump me to a FC seat.

As I was writing this, I got notification that my upgrade cleared. I wonder if the supervisor I spoke with looked back into the matter and went ahead and cleared the upgrade?
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Old Nov 4, 12, 8:14 pm
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If they bought the upgrade they would jump over you and I think would show up as upgraded... you definitely show up as upgraded if you use an RPU or GPU, but I don't think you can apply that within 24 hours. I've never bought up at/after check-in but I imagine that if you do then you show up on the cleared list, and the paid upgrade offers usually seem to be more available than CPU.
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Old Nov 4, 12, 8:19 pm
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Originally Posted by LAXOGG View Post
1 hour later I checked back to see that the customer listed as #5 was upgraded and I was still #1.

After another hour I checked back and found that the customer listed as #3 was upgraded and I was still #1.

An hour later, I called the 1K desk and got the run around with both an agent and a supervisor that the mobile app upgrade standby list has nothing to do with priority and the passengers listed as #5 and #3 on the list could be GS.

Can anyone help me with this? Under what conditions could the passengers listed as priority #3 and #5 legitimately jump me to a FC seat.

As I was writing this, I got notification that my upgrade cleared. I wonder if the supervisor I spoke with looked back into the matter and went ahead and cleared the upgrade?
The United Web site shows only the "departure management" upgrade list which is only used at the gate by gate agents to clear people.

There is a separate list with a different ordering which is used for ahead-of-time "elite upgrades". See http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...es-shares.html where one potential downside of the system that UA adopted earlier this year is "Authoritative Upgrade List within a Cutoff -- United stops clearing upgrades at about 4 hours out, creating a single, authoritative gate upgrade list that is followed and cleared at the gate. CO runs upgrades up until checkin cutoff, which means that the gate can be open, and there are two (2) competing upgrade mechanisms using different upgrade ordering priorities -- the EUA ordering scheme and the airport upgrade list (e.g., #7 got upgraded before #1 because EUA did it not the gate, and #7 was really #1 with the EUA system, even though he was #7 on the gate display and PDA site).".

The ahead-of-time upgrade ordering is not the same as the at-the-gate upgrade ordering and it's perfectly natural and totally possible for someone to be #1 on one list but #10 on the other.

As another poster has mentioned, buy-up-with-cash upgrade offers taken at a kiosk or during online check-in will show up in the "cleared upgrade" list even though the passenger wasn't cleared via CPU or at-the-gate processes.

As to how the prioritization of ahead-of-time and at-the-gate upgrades is made, well, I encourage you to dig it up and try to get a coherent summary. Just to get you started: one uses time-of-upgrade-request and the other uses time-of-check-in as a tiebreaker
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Old Nov 4, 12, 8:38 pm
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Originally Posted by j1j2j38 View Post
If they bought the upgrade they would jump over you and I think would show up as upgraded... you definitely show up as upgraded if you use an RPU or GPU, but I don't think you can apply that within 24 hours. I've never bought up at/after check-in but I imagine that if you do then you show up on the cleared list, and the paid upgrade offers usually seem to be more available than CPU.
This would be a viable explanation. Does anyone know if a TOD / HOD shows in the cleared upgrade list?

Edit.....I see from above that others say it is the case.

Originally Posted by mherdeg View Post

The ahead-of-time upgrade ordering is not the same as the at-the-gate upgrade ordering and it's perfectly natural and totally possible for someone to be #1 on one list but #10 on the other.
Does the mobile app listing at least take status into consideration. In other words, will a 1K always be ahead of a Plat. on this list? During my conversation with the supervisory agent she disclosed that #2 on the mobile app list was a Plat (this a very elite light route). Which would mean, if status is a precedent factor on the mobile app list, #3 and #5 would have to be lower status and should not have been upgraded ahead of me (excepting TOD /HOD).

Last edited by LAXOGG; Nov 4, 12 at 9:21 pm
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Old Nov 4, 12, 8:44 pm
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mherdeg View Post
....
The ahead-of-time upgrade ordering is not the same as the at-the-gate upgrade ordering ...
Have heard this before but could some supply an example case/ specific explanation of how the two lists be sorted differently?
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