UA thinks 787 give competitive advantage

Old Oct 8, 2011, 5:50 pm
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by born sleepy
If you guys think UA's 757s are ancient, you haven't been on AA's decrepit old beaters. Ratty and nasty even in F.
Atleast AA is revamping the entire fleet with new planes in 2012!
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Old Oct 8, 2011, 6:21 pm
  #62  
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Originally Posted by GottaGoFlying
My thoughts were the same as yours. Hope this is not a preview of the future direction of UA.
UA is now run by a CEO from CO & most of the changes since the merger reflect that. The future direction of UA is pretty much what Smisek had envisioned for CO, except that the plan is now about 1.5X bigger after the two airlines are fully combined.

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Old Oct 8, 2011, 6:35 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by mherdeg
I thought the story was that the first 787s the airline would take delivery of were from a CO order, where the 36J configuration was a given. (That story always seemed a little holey to me -- couldn't they change the order if they really wanted to invest in an international F product?)
Originally Posted by sbm12
Yes, they could change the configuration if they wanted to and specify an international F product. They don't want to and they've explained why.

And, yes, it is E+ and E-, not Premium Economy and Economy.
I recently read in the M&M forum about a pax who booked an F award YYC/FRA and then has the award downgraded to F because LH is not going to have the F cabin in service on his flight dates. This happens on a lot of routes on LH. If LH cannot sustain F service between FRA, and smaller cities, even if they are among the wealthiest city on a per-capita basis, why would you expect COUA to do so.

CO ordered the 787 to service routes that would support a C/J product that were not profitable with an extended range 777 due to its fuel efficiency.

I would rather have two cabin service on UA metal between IAH and AKL, and between EWR/IAD and BLR than to change planes in SYD or FRA to get to either, and use non-UA metal.

F in a 3rd cabin will persist on UA between ORD/LHR, SFO/NRT, etc. Don't expect it to small cities, especially the ones CO elites mention when boasting that CO has more international destination.
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Old Oct 8, 2011, 6:37 pm
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Originally Posted by zabes64
now I could be wrong, but still.
With all due respect, you are wrong on airlines "going all out" on the A380. Lufthansa and Air France used already existing seat products, and did not bother installing flat beds in Business Class.
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Old Oct 8, 2011, 8:26 pm
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Originally Posted by edcho
Atleast AA is revamping the entire fleet with new planes in 2012!
That is not so certain! Lots of smoke, no mirrors Good job mostly on the Airbus side.

Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
With all due respect, you are wrong on airlines "going all out" on the A380. Lufthansa and Air France used already existing seat products, and did not bother installing flat beds in Business Class.
O, I love it. Airbus, Schmairbus. It's nothing more than an overrated bus with more people, wrong, many more people in your compartment and what for? Who in what's name would get exited about that? When the 747 started at least it was a "jumbo" with two aisles, compared to all the other single aisle planes. But this one is just an added headache plane. Can't understand the excitement?

Last edited by iluv2fly; Oct 8, 2011 at 10:47 pm Reason: merge
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 6:45 am
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Indeed, this does not look "a cut above" to me:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufth...841/1993657/L/
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 8:51 am
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Originally Posted by edcho
Atleast AA is revamping the entire fleet with new planes in 2012!
UACO have also added some 739s to their order for 2012. Not to the extent of UA, but CO has been in a continual fleet renewal for quite some time. Seems like a better plan than AA. Seems like AA will be in the same place in 15-20 years (if they make it) where their entire fleet needs renewal at the same time.

Originally Posted by 5khours
Read in Hemispheres that the 787s will be equipped with 36 lie flat, premium economy and regular economy. Interesting that there is no First. I wonder if this is an indication of future direction. Any ideas on which routes they will use the new birds?
It will be interesting. UACO seems committed to offering a mixed fleet (given that they are still doing 777 conversions). Also, the 787 is allowing PMCO to get rid of some 762s which were also two class birds. I do hope we see some 3-class 787s delivered after these first 6 so that UA can open more routes to Asia. Would like to see SFO-TPE, LAX-HKG, and SFO-MNL open up.
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 9:00 am
  #68  
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Originally Posted by SFOtoORD
I do hope we see some 3-class 787s delivered after these first 6 so that UA can open more routes to Asia. Would like to see SFO-TPE, LAX-HKG, and SFO-MNL open up.
Do you think that those routes cannot operate with only a C/Y mix? Other than HKG where there probably is some demand I'm not so sure there is really demand for a full F product to TPE or MNL, for example.
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 9:59 am
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Originally Posted by mherdeg
I thought the story was that the first 787s the airline would take delivery of were from a CO order, where the 36J configuration was a given. (That story always seemed a little holey to me -- couldn't they change the order if they really wanted to invest in an international F product?)
Currently, lead time to order first and business class seats is about 24 months. Even if UA wanted to equip 787s with F seats, there hasn't wouldn't have been enough time to get those seats in the earlier deliveries previously ordered by CO. These aircraft have to come in the configuration previously decided by CO, except for minor changes like E+.
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 10:28 am
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I doubt more than a very small handful of operators will ever put a First Class cabin on the 787-8/9 - the economic case for doing so is rather poor. International First Class demand just isn't what it used to be, especially given the cost belt-tightening at multinationals and the improvement of the modern Business Class product to a point where the step-up to F has little extrinsic value.

Heck, look at the A380 - the bird can easily accommodate a sizable F section, but most operators are putting LESS F seats into the 380 than is used on predecessor longhaul flagships.
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 10:52 am
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I hope to fly on one someday. Took this at ABQ a few weeks ago. They were apparently testing the 787 there due to the high altitude.

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Old Oct 9, 2011, 11:06 am
  #72  
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Originally Posted by edcho
Atleast AA is revamping the entire fleet with new planes in 2012!
LOL

Maybe they will start in 2012...
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 12:03 pm
  #73  
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Originally Posted by planemechanic
LOL

Maybe they will start in 2012...
There's a good chance AA will also revamp its Balance Sheet starting in 2012...
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 12:04 pm
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Originally Posted by 5khours
Read in Hemispheres that the 787s will be equipped with 36 lie flat, premium economy and regular economy. Interesting that there is no First. I wonder if this is an indication of future direction. Any ideas on which routes they will use the new birds?
Which of course means if it is on the AKL route systemwides will be once again worthless.

UA puts more F/C seats than they will generally sell so there are some upgrades, it seems CO configured planes probably have less seats than they can probably sell hence NO upgrades... so all of us 1Ks with our systemwides, they are basically just glorified CR1s unless you go offseason or on a wednesday, lol
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Old Oct 9, 2011, 12:54 pm
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Originally Posted by sbm12
Do you think that those routes cannot operate with only a C/Y mix? Other than HKG where there probably is some demand I'm not so sure there is really demand for a full F product to TPE or MNL, for example.
Historically PMUA operated all those markets with F. In addition, I suspect that whatever corporate contracts they have would affect those decisions.
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