UA thinks 787 give competitive advantage

Closed Thread

Old Sep 30, 11, 9:43 am
  #31  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SEA
Posts: 12,485
Originally Posted by Innerloop View Post
Any chance United will opt for some of the newer-style E seats in their 787s? The "shell" style ones that seem well received elsewhere? Maybe they can do E+ with better seats ala Air New Zealand and really make E+ something worthwhile.
The first deliveries (originally ordered by CO) will come with the same type of seats currently seen on CO aircraft.

Originally Posted by BF263533 View Post
ANA appears to have 8 across in coach. Has UA published its 787 configuration? 9 across in coach may be more comfortable like the higher humidity.
Y will be 9-across.
sxf24 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 9:47 am
  #32  
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: AAdvantage Gold,Hilton HHonors Gold, Kimpton Inner Circle
Posts: 893
Originally Posted by 707Flyer View Post
Boeing is a business that can locate wherever it wants, regardless of what some Un-American unionistas think of it.


Lowering wages (aka living standards) or outsourcing to cheap labor markets is American I suppose then?

The only advantage I see is long and thin routes. I am not going to book UA due to the 787, just like I haven't booked AF for the a380. Schedule, star alliance, and price are all more important factors than a larger window and higher humidity.
airb330 is online now  
Old Sep 30, 11, 10:02 am
  #33  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SEA
Posts: 12,485
Originally Posted by airb330 View Post


Lowering wages (aka living standards) or outsourcing to cheap labor markets is American I suppose then?
Outside of a cost of living difference, I'm not aware that Boeing is paying employees in South Carolina less than employees of the same skill/tenor in Washington. I think Boeing believes the benefit is from having a more stable workforce that won't walk out every 3-4 years.
sxf24 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 10:44 am
  #34  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K, AA PLT, Hertz PC, National EC Executive, Marriott/SPG/Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,174
I had the pleasure of touring a 787 during last year's StarMegaDO, and I can't wait to fly on it. As a true FTer, I will go out of the way to try any new airplane, be it A380, 787, or C-Series regional. But I also know I'm in a very, very small minority when flying public is taken as whole.

I'm concerned that Boeing and UA are setting unrealistically high expectations with respect to passenger comfort. 14 hours in any coach seat is a challenge, higher humidity or not. A380 is already pressurized to 5,000 ft., and I don't hear about coach passengers arriving to their destination so much more relaxed, than say, B747 passengers. Personal space, quality of IFE, and on-board service have a much higher impact on passenger comfort than anything 787 brings with it. No mood lighting, grand entrance, high-tech windows, or lower cabin pressure can undo the impact of 31" pitch, mediocre food, misbehaving toddlers, or unfriendly flight attendants on a long, full flight. And, when at the end of the day passengers will remember their 787 flight as being not much different from any other flight, it will undermine Boeing's credibility and will seize being any sort of competitive advantage for UA.

In fact, I think the biggest competitive advantage UA will have with the 787 is over itself. I will definitely choose to fly UA 787 over UA 747.
legalalien is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 11:23 am
  #35  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Northern Va
Programs: UA 1K, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, SPG Plat, Hertz PC
Posts: 659
People will go out of their way to sit in E- with 9 across and a 31" pitch? I think not. Price and schedule will determine what plane the masses are on.
Pingtung is online now  
Old Sep 30, 11, 11:24 am
  #36  
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vxj, SE/Washington, DC
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1K (2MM)
Posts: 1,155
I would DEFINITELY go out of my way to fly an A380 especially because most airlines have gone out of their way (so it seems) to make them something special on the inside, now I could be wrong, but still.

the 787? No wouldn't go out of my way 1 bit unless the seating was 2 5 2, but I'm sure its 3 3 3, so it won't do a thing to keep my business... UA planes interior generally looks cheap and even when it's redone it doesn't take long for it to look like crap.
zabes64 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 11:51 am
  #37  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Jose, CA
Programs: DL DM, HH Gold, SPG Gold, Hyatt Plat
Posts: 2,872
Originally Posted by lhrsfo View Post
Most people have no idea of what sort of plane they are flying (except, perhaps, on the A380) and no interest in it either. What they care about are personal space (pitch, width), the condition of the interior and whether the exterior paint is peeling. All of these are within the gift of the airline. Yes, UA, we are talking about you.
I think this is a more accurate view. Keep in mind this is a forum for flying enthusiasts and people who fly a LOT. It's a small bubble that doesn't really represent the bulk of the flying public. A lot of us might search for and choose to fly the 787, but the bulk of the public and revenue is just looking for the cheapest ticket.

Before I flew a lot (and for the most part even still) my booking priority went price, seat availability, routing/layovers, airline, airplane. Airline/Airplane were usually more of a tie breaker when the first 3 were similar. Most people aren't even going to consider the aircraft type.

But United doesn't really need everyone to want to fly the 787. If a small portion of the flying community, especially high rev passengers who fly a lot prioritize flying on the 787, they might get a couple % boost. In these days, that's all they can really expect and I think it's realistic.

Now, if the 787 allows them to price routes more competitively then it will give them an advantage. Not because people 'want' to fly on the 787, but because it happens to be the best option.

Another factor, and this is 100% speculation since I know little of airline economics, is paid premium cabin travel. People paying for C or F would probably be choosing a new 787 with United over an older plane with another airline. Only problem is that the A380 kind of beat them to it, so when the 787 arrives, there will be plenty of other options on a brand new plane with many other airlines.
roknroll is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 12:03 pm
  #38  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K, AA PLT, Hertz PC, National EC Executive, Marriott/SPG/Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,174
Originally Posted by roknroll View Post
Another factor, and this is 100% speculation since I know little of airline economics, is paid premium cabin travel. People paying for C or F would probably be choosing a new 787 with United over an older plane with another airline. Only problem is that the A380 kind of beat them to it, so when the 787 arrives, there will be plenty of other options on a brand new plane with many other airlines.
I don't know...a lie-flat seat is just good, in my opinion, on a 777, 330, or 380 as it is on a 787. I suppose if there are two non-stop flights departing around the same time, costing the same, and no airline/alliance preference, one might pick based on the aircraft. But how often does it happen?

In fact, I would pick an older UA 767 with new lie-flat C seats over a brand spanking new LH A380 and their inclined C seats. YMMV, of course.
legalalien is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 1:51 pm
  #39  
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: 60km from AMS
Programs: CO/UA 1K, Marriott/SPG Au, Hilton Ag, IHG Pt
Posts: 491
Originally Posted by legalalien View Post
A380 is already pressurized to 5,000 ft., and I don't hear about coach passengers arriving to their destination so much more relaxed, than say, B747 passengers.
This years SMD3 A388 JFK-FRA flight vs last years SMD2 B744 JFK-FRA, both in Y, trust me, this year won hands down. Comfort of seat and "climate" certainly made me much fitter upon arrival. The IFE was also better, but kept me more awake then on the B744.


Originally Posted by zabes64 View Post
the 787? No wouldn't go out of my way 1 bit unless the seating was 2 5 2, but I'm sure its 3 3 3, so it won't do a thing to keep my business...
We don't know what the interior will look like, nor the configuration and seats, so we'll have to wait and see. A lot of what the B787 brings is already common from the A380 of course...
jupper is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 2:09 pm
  #40  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Houston
Programs: UA Premier 1K, SPG Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 10,506
Originally Posted by BF263533 View Post
Higher Humidity - I moved to Florida 30 years ago, and for greater comfort, the goal has been to reduce humidity. On CO, Thai, and ANA aircraft because of the lack of personal air vents I sweat quite a bit and my undershirt is wet from the long hot flight. With higher humidity and if there are no personal air vents to cool me down, I will be dripping wet. Like a day in Florida with poor air conditioning. An 80 degree day in Arizona tends to be more comfortable than in Florida.
The difference is in FL you want to get it down from 90% to the comfort zone, on planes they're moving it up from the single digits to the comfort zone.

Originally Posted by BF263533 View Post
ANA appears to have 8 across in coach. Has UA published its 787 configuration? 9 across in coach may be more comfortable like the higher humidity.
Most major operators will be 9 abreast in Economy, including United.
mduell is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 2:15 pm
  #41  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K, AA PLT, Hertz PC, National EC Executive, Marriott/SPG/Hilton Gold
Posts: 1,174
Originally Posted by jupper View Post
This years SMD3 A388 JFK-FRA flight vs last years SMD2 B744 JFK-FRA, both in Y, trust me, this year won hands down. Comfort of seat and "climate" certainly made me much fitter upon arrival. The IFE was also better, but kept me more awake then on the B744.
Hmm...I didn't notice much difference. I was in F though.

Seriously though, I wonder how much of that was attributable to air pressure, and how much was due to the seat itself and possibly the IFE.

Last edited by legalalien; Sep 30, 11 at 2:21 pm
legalalien is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 2:31 pm
  #42  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 69,004
Originally Posted by mahasamatman View Post
The same thing happened with the A380. Some people fly it just for the experience, but is it really any different from a cattle car in Coach?
In the case of Lufty, the difference between their A380 in Y and their 744 in Y is absolutely noticeable.
sbm12 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 3:14 pm
  #43  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: wandering expat
Posts: 35,900
Originally Posted by zabes64 View Post
I would DEFINITELY go out of my way to fly an A380 especially because most airlines have gone out of their way (so it seems) to make them something special on the inside, now I could be wrong, but still.
I avoid both the A380 and B744, because I don't want to arrive and compete with a mass of humanity upon arrival. My perfect current international ride is on a 767 or 330.
halls120 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 6:29 pm
  #44  
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: UA MileagePlus (Premier Gold); Hilton HHonors (Gold); Amex Plat
Posts: 1,535
Originally Posted by halls120 View Post
I avoid both the A380 and B744, because I don't want to arrive and compete with a mass of humanity upon arrival. My perfect current international ride is on a 767 or 330.
Meh, as long as you're near the FRONT of that mass of humanity, why does it matter? I'm usually in the first 1/3 of the people off the plane, and by the time I get to customs, I've probably passed at least 30-50% of the people who got off the plane before I did.

When I arrived in NRT both times I went there (aboard a 744), I was probably the 30th to 40th person from that plane arriving at customs. I'd guess I was probably about 60th to 70th off the plane, and I passed at least 30-40 pax in the terminal.
STS-134 is offline  
Old Sep 30, 11, 6:48 pm
  #45  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: LAX, ONT
Programs: UA Plat
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by STS-134 View Post
Meh, as long as you're near the FRONT of that mass of humanity, why does it matter? I'm usually in the first 1/3 of the people off the plane, and by the time I get to customs, I've probably passed at least 30-50% of the people who got off the plane before I did.

When I arrived in NRT both times I went there (aboard a 744), I was probably the 30th to 40th person from that plane arriving at customs. I'd guess I was probably about 60th to 70th off the plane, and I passed at least 30-40 pax in the terminal.
Of course, none of that matters when you just landed after 2 or 3 747's... Gosh, that's so much fun!
dr__bob is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: