Jun 30, 2013, 2:46 pm
CO/UA Million Mile (and Beyond) Flyer Benefits, Effective Spring 2012
Mar 23, 2012, 9:08 am
#3751
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,998
There are a lot of things in life that are not fair. Do your time, make 1K for 16 straight years, like I have, and give the "Little Woman" something nice and quit worrying that someone else is getting a benefit that you're not!
Yesterday an old guy with crutches with a #4 on his boarding pass cut in front of me in line, and I'm a big shot 1K MM flyer. NOW THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!
Yesterday an old guy with crutches with a #4 on his boarding pass cut in front of me in line, and I'm a big shot 1K MM flyer. NOW THAT'S NOT FAIR!!!
How many times have you given your upgrade to someone in coach who only flies a few times a year? I would guess never.
Would you be okay if a gate agent walked up to you and took your upgrade and gave it to someone in coach who flies a few times a year? My guess is you would scream ' hey that's not fair'.
And if the agent said to you in response 'quit worrying that someone else is getting a benefit that you're not!', you would be the first one reporting about how your upgrade was taken away unfairly.
It is the same thing here - a benefit is being given to people that did not earn it.
As a 10+ year 1k, MM flyer, for the most part this will have little effect on me. However, it is another example of taking a benefit from a group that earned it (Premier Silver, Premier Gold, Premier Platinum) and giving it to someone who has not.
IMO - that is not fair.
Mar 23, 2012, 9:21 am
#3752
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: So Fla & NYC
Programs: DL DM/2MM, UA MM, BV LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 23,766
Excuse him since he is one of that UA crowd who thinks that he is still dealing with "Mileage Plus" instead of "Onepass" under its married name.
Sooner or later they will all begin to realize who were the parachuters into COdbaUA and the ruckus will quiet down as they make their adjustments by adapting or defecting. It is no longer United Airlines no matter what the airplanes say on their sides.
Sooner or later they will all begin to realize who were the parachuters into COdbaUA and the ruckus will quiet down as they make their adjustments by adapting or defecting. It is no longer United Airlines no matter what the airplanes say on their sides.
Last edited by monitor; Mar 23, 2012 at 12:08 pm Reason: Stupid typo
Mar 23, 2012, 9:38 am
#3753
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
My oh my, where did you buy that attack dog?
I stand by what I wrote. If you disagree, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
However, see post number 3745 up thread where you will see this language:
"State statutes similarly do not require that a company specifically intends to deceive, nor must a company always have knowledge that a statement is false to be liable for misrepresentations made to a consumer."
"...Engages in any other conduct which similarly creates the likelihood of confusion or of misunderstanding..."
The above is all I have to say about your post.
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I stand by what I wrote. If you disagree, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
However, see post number 3745 up thread where you will see this language:
"State statutes similarly do not require that a company specifically intends to deceive, nor must a company always have knowledge that a statement is false to be liable for misrepresentations made to a consumer."
"...Engages in any other conduct which similarly creates the likelihood of confusion or of misunderstanding..."
The above is all I have to say about your post.
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Q: you are a memeber of the mileage plus program
A: Yes
Q: you agreed to abide by the terms and conditions of the program when you enrolled.
A: Yes (if you say no or I don't remember, they will pull out your agreement)
Q: here is clause 1 of the t/c
MileagePlus membership and benefits, including the Premier Program, are offered at the discretion of United Airlines and its affiliates, and United has the right to terminate the Program and/or the Premier Program or to change the Program Rules, regulations, benefits, conditions of participation or mileage levels, in whole or in part, at any time, with or without notice, even though changes may affect the value of the mileage or certificates already accumulated.
Q: they state the program can be change in whole or in part at any time.
A: yes
Q: that includes the time after the FAQ was published
A: yes
Q: UA communicated the MM changes, when they made them
A: yes
Q: the removal and addition of benefits as described here (show benefits changes) is clear.
A: yes
Q: you understand the changes?
A: yes
Q: the changes are not confusing.
A: the changes are not confusing.
Thank you.
yeah DTPA not going to help you.
Mar 23, 2012, 9:48 am
#3754
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SFO South Bay
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 3,052
+1. This is exactly how I feel about it.
Mar 23, 2012, 9:51 am
#3755
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
I kinda feel the same about the MMers that never fly. They should be stripped of those benefits as well.
Mar 23, 2012, 9:56 am
#3756
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: USA
Programs: United (2MM, Former 1K), Hilton (Gold), Marriott (Titanium))
Posts: 393
Perhaps it is not this simple, but it seems to me that UAL has decided to maximize profits in (at least) the short term as follows:
1. Rewarding current top value customers with differentiated benefits. This is to be accomplished by lowering/diluting the benefits to all others, regardless of past promises made, rather than increasing current GS and 1K benefits.
2. Reducing capacity and redundancy (flights, clubs, administrative costs, etc.).
3. Reducing the value of miles previously earned (i.e., fewer saver awards, etc.).
4. Expanding fees by selling every possible perk, regardless of the negative/dilutive effect it has on MM legacy and lower level elite flyers.
5. Feeling confident that the bottom line will benefit from the resulting added fees and reduced benefits, despite the loss of a certain number of MM legacy and lower elite level flyers.
With an improving economy and until industry capacity expands, it may work for them for awhile. It makes flying very much a commodity to me, with my future airline and flight choices to be based on convenience and cost.
1. Rewarding current top value customers with differentiated benefits. This is to be accomplished by lowering/diluting the benefits to all others, regardless of past promises made, rather than increasing current GS and 1K benefits.
2. Reducing capacity and redundancy (flights, clubs, administrative costs, etc.).
3. Reducing the value of miles previously earned (i.e., fewer saver awards, etc.).
4. Expanding fees by selling every possible perk, regardless of the negative/dilutive effect it has on MM legacy and lower level elite flyers.
5. Feeling confident that the bottom line will benefit from the resulting added fees and reduced benefits, despite the loss of a certain number of MM legacy and lower elite level flyers.
With an improving economy and until industry capacity expands, it may work for them for awhile. It makes flying very much a commodity to me, with my future airline and flight choices to be based on convenience and cost.
Last edited by Colo1K; Mar 23, 2012 at 10:02 am
Mar 23, 2012, 10:15 am
#3757
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
Why? We earned those benefits by planting our butts in airplane seats for a LONG time. The benefit is there so when you do start cutting back on your flying you can still enjoy some of the hard earned perks.
If you really feel that way, when you fly less than 50K per year I want you to voluntarily turn in your credentials and never use a single one of the benefits that you earned. I would say you won't do that and you will use the benefits when you take that one trip when you are 90 to go see the grandkids.
Mar 23, 2012, 10:31 am
#3758
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
WHAT????
Why? We earned those benefits by planting our butts in airplane seats for a LONG time. The benefit is there so when you do start cutting back on your flying you can still enjoy some of the hard earned perks.
If you really feel that way, when you fly less than 50K per year I want you to voluntarily turn in your credentials and never use a single one of the benefits that you earned. I would say you won't do that and you will use the benefits when you take that one trip when you are 90 to go see the grandkids.
Why? We earned those benefits by planting our butts in airplane seats for a LONG time. The benefit is there so when you do start cutting back on your flying you can still enjoy some of the hard earned perks.
If you really feel that way, when you fly less than 50K per year I want you to voluntarily turn in your credentials and never use a single one of the benefits that you earned. I would say you won't do that and you will use the benefits when you take that one trip when you are 90 to go see the grandkids.
Mar 23, 2012, 10:45 am
#3759
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Lets pretend this is a deposition and you're answering questions.
Q: you are a memeber of the mileage plus program
A: Yes
Q: you agreed to abide by the terms and conditions of the program when you enrolled.
A: Yes (if you say no or I don't remember, they will pull out your agreement)
Q: here is clause 1 of the t/c
emphasis added
Q: they state the program can be change in whole or in part at any time.
A: yes
Q: that includes the time after the FAQ was published
A: yes
Q: UA communicated the MM changes, when they made them
A: yes
Q: the removal and addition of benefits as described here (show benefits changes) is clear.
A: yes
Q: you understand the changes?
A: yes
Q: the changes are not confusing.
A: the changes are not confusing.
Thank you.
yeah DTPA not going to help you.
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First, we are not in a deposition. Second, you painted the facts to suit things the way you see them.
Quite simply, the WSJ reporter got the correct answer when he was told that those FAQs and answers were "regrettable" and "confusing." Those words were used because those words acknowledge that UA has no defense for taking away the promised lifetime benefits.
Your attempt at an analogy borders on being specious considering that you selectively included elements of the program that suit your purpose.
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Mar 23, 2012, 10:47 am
#3760
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ASE
Programs: UA 1P MM, SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 45
As has been stated repeatedly, success in business can be largely dependent upon fairness, good customer service, and ultimately reputation. While that may not currently be the case with UACO, some of us continue to hope that these issues will be corrected ethically rather than fooling with legal nuance, which could result in continued dissatisfaction and the loss of an important customer base.
Mar 23, 2012, 10:59 am
#3761
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: DFW
Programs: UA Pleb, HH Gold, PWP General Secretary
Posts: 23,199
Your pretense of a deposition is not even close to being an analogy of the situation. Your pretended deposition borders on being ridiculous because it omits and distorts critical facts.
First, we are not in a deposition. Second, you painted the facts to suit things the way you see them.
Quite simply, the WSJ reporter got the correct answer when he was told that those FAQs and answers were "regrettable" and "confusing." Those words were used because those words acknowledge that UA has no defense for taking away the promised lifetime benefits.
Your attempt at an analogy borders on being specious considering that you selectively included elements of the program that suit your purpose.
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First, we are not in a deposition. Second, you painted the facts to suit things the way you see them.
Quite simply, the WSJ reporter got the correct answer when he was told that those FAQs and answers were "regrettable" and "confusing." Those words were used because those words acknowledge that UA has no defense for taking away the promised lifetime benefits.
Your attempt at an analogy borders on being specious considering that you selectively included elements of the program that suit your purpose.
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Also, they don't need a defense. you need to prove (by a Preponderance of the Evidence) the plaintiff's case that the T/C are deceptive as to the ability of UA to change the program at will.
Mar 23, 2012, 11:11 am
#3762
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
Mar 23, 2012, 11:11 am
#3763
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Why so much obfuscating about the difference between Recent Articles and Related Articles?
Let me spell this out in plane terms (see what I did there
):Here's the relevant portion in the screenshot:
Notice the difference between Recent:
And Related:
Notice anything different? Upthread, dgcpaphd posted the following when I pointed out the difference:
Let me spell this out again, so dgcpaphd and others who have trouble understanding the difference between Recent and Related can understand.
This is where FAQ titles from recently viewed items were listed:
And this is where the FAQ titles from related items were listed:
Notice a difference? On this page there were NO, ZERO, ZIP, ZILCH related items.
Trying to draw an inference between what this person previously searched for and the current FAQ they are looking at is bizarre and downright misleading, so can we drop it now?
If you want to try for yourself, to confirm that it still works this way, the old FAQ are still live:
http://faq.ua2go.com
Go click on an item, then navigate the tree to a wholly different section and click on another - you'll see how the Recent Articles section performs. By spot checking a few links, I rarely get more than one or two Related Articles.
Hopefully by providing that link, I'm not starting too much of a firestorm of someone finding out of date information and basing thousands of dollars worth of spend on it
This forum is comprised, for the most part, of people from various walks of life with different life experiences and varying levels of education. In other words, most (but not all) of the people on this forum are reasonable ordinary fairly bright folks.
When it comes to reading a website such as united.com (or most any other website), we expect the language on that site to be REASONABLY clear and not “regrettable” and/or “confusing.”
If you want to flaunt knowledge of obscure computer skills and criticize others for not having the same level of skill you have, that will serve no purpose.
I could flaunt my knowledge of my profession and lose most of the people on this forum. If I did so, that also would serve no purpose.
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Mar 23, 2012, 11:19 am
#3764
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
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Mar 23, 2012, 11:32 am
#3765
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: USA
Programs: United (2MM, Former 1K), Hilton (Gold), Marriott (Titanium))
Posts: 393
Face reality. UA had the legal right to change its FF program and it did. Rewarding past loyalty and honoring long promised benefits has been deemed less important than the maximization of current profits.
Some of us got screwed more than others. I don't like it any more than the rest of you, but there is little we can do about it. We must each decide whether this breach of trust and reduction in FF benefits will drive us elsewhere. UA is betting that it won't. Is it right?
Some of us got screwed more than others. I don't like it any more than the rest of you, but there is little we can do about it. We must each decide whether this breach of trust and reduction in FF benefits will drive us elsewhere. UA is betting that it won't. Is it right?