Jun 30, 2013, 2:46 pm
CO/UA Million Mile (and Beyond) Flyer Benefits, Effective Spring 2012
Jan 2, 2012, 9:37 pm
#1966
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Paris, France
Programs: Over-entitled UA 1PMM; JetSmarter; HHonors Gold
Posts: 9,723
Ignoring the changes in the program (i.e. comparing what was before versus what is now), the biggest problem with the MM program today is that it provides no benefit to a substantial portion of the flying population. Specifically, it provides no benefit to active flyers who are either single or whose spouses/partners achieves status on their own. For those flyers, it provides a promise of future benefits that can be rescinded at any time. And UA has demonstrated that they are willing to eliminate benefits in the future, as they have done in the past.
The net result is that the MM program only benefits members or spouses who are NOT frequent flyers. If a MM member and their spouse are each 1P (or 1K even), then the only benefit of the MM program is the promise of future benefits. And this isn't even considering single flyers.
The CR-1's provided an ongoing added benefit to active flyers, however nominal. By eliminating the CR-1's, active flyers now have little incentive to reach MM status until they are ready to become inactive. The only way to resolve this is for UA to provide some added benefit of MM status. This could be reinstitution of CR-1's, prioritization of MM over non-MM in UDU/IRROPS, or some similar benefit.
Jan 2, 2012, 10:03 pm
#1967
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K/MM, MC Life Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 722
The way I see it, for active flyers who value the spouse benefit, the new program has a major incentive to reach 1MM for that alone, plus you have the insurance of always being at a real elite level (Gold) in the future. The 3MM level with 1K plus the guaranteed SWUs looks pretty nice, too, if you plan to travel internationally in your old age (and those upgrades become a little more usable than they've been lately, which I suspect they will).
It's the 2MM level that now looks rather anemic to me by comparison, giving you a few more points and a little more priority for upgrades, but nothing dramatically different. Yes, some fees are gone for now, but once enough PMCO Plats have moved up to 1K, I'd be surprised if they didn't add back some fees for the Plat level. The problem is that if you've reached 1MM and 3MM seems hopelessly far away, you might as well start building your miles on another airline and just enjoy your UA status whenever it's more convenient or cheaper.
One way I feel they could address the imbalance would be to give you "head start" PQM miles at each level every year, say 40k for 1MMs, 65k for 2MMs, etc. That way if you're still an active flyer, you'd more easily reach any given higher tier on UA than on a competitor, and the jump from 1MM to 2MM would add significant and visible value every single year. Even in retirement, you'd always be thinking, "just 35k miles to the next level."
It's the 2MM level that now looks rather anemic to me by comparison, giving you a few more points and a little more priority for upgrades, but nothing dramatically different. Yes, some fees are gone for now, but once enough PMCO Plats have moved up to 1K, I'd be surprised if they didn't add back some fees for the Plat level. The problem is that if you've reached 1MM and 3MM seems hopelessly far away, you might as well start building your miles on another airline and just enjoy your UA status whenever it's more convenient or cheaper.
One way I feel they could address the imbalance would be to give you "head start" PQM miles at each level every year, say 40k for 1MMs, 65k for 2MMs, etc. That way if you're still an active flyer, you'd more easily reach any given higher tier on UA than on a competitor, and the jump from 1MM to 2MM would add significant and visible value every single year. Even in retirement, you'd always be thinking, "just 35k miles to the next level."
Last edited by joel67; Jan 2, 2012 at 10:14 pm
Jan 3, 2012, 12:19 am
#1968
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: BNE
Programs: UA 1MM; QF VA CI KL KE
Posts: 474
Jan 3, 2012, 5:24 am
#1969
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,583
Too much I see on this board about the MM program people are thinking too short term and with blinders on. The real benefit is when you hit a point in life for any reason that you would not earn the status the program lets you have something. And that is pretty good. I won't go into the specific benefits lost/gained/whatever here, they have been pounded into the ground elsewhere.
Since my business travel pattern over the next year makes it highly unlikely that I'll make 1K, I really have to look hard at AA, if for no other reason but the fact they haven't reduced their mileage benefit for 50K flyers. If I fly 50K per year for the next five years on UA, I earn 375,000 miles. The same 50K for five years on AA (assuming they don't join UA and DL in the race to the bottom) earns me 500,000.
That represents a lot more potential upgrades.
Jan 3, 2012, 9:26 am
#1970
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1P-1MM, Marriott LT Titanium
Posts: 3,930
Speaking of CR-1s, I expected to not get any this year (2012) based on the new program changes. Imagine my surprise when I logged onto United.com and it shows I have 2 cr-1s in my account. Now I just need to figure out when my wife's comp 1P status kicks in.
Jan 3, 2012, 9:37 am
#1971
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ASE
Programs: UA 1P MM, SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 45
I think that a major issue for those of us who were pre Jan 2012 UA Million Mile flyers remains the downgrade of status by one tier. We were in fact, among other things, promised Lifetime Premier Executive status which was (not counting GS) the second highest tier available. Now that PE no longer exists, we have been reclassified as Premier Gold and have been essentially downgraded by one level. Continental Infinite Elites with a pretty low threshold have been granted lifetime 1K status and pre Jan 2012 2MM have been given lifetime RCC membership so there is clearly a precident for recognition of the need to grandfather benefits to some. However, the 1MM people have not been given the same consideration. Hopefully this is merely an oversight that will be corrected.
Lifetime 1K for people who may have flown as little as 50K miles for 5 consecutive years seems to be somewhat discriminatory in terms of preference to PMCO people. Beginning in the early 1990's I attained 1K status for 13 of 14 years with 9 of those being consecutive. Although this would seem to have had more value to UACO than 5 yrs of 50k for a PMCO customer, lifetime 1k status was never offered and I do not expect it. But I do think, as many have suggested, that Premier Platinum status, which is somewhat closer to our prior benefit level, should be granted to those of us who attained 1MM status prior to January. For that matter, it would be fine with me if those Continental people and others who went over 1 MM after the credit of partner and EQM's were given this status. However, the real issue is that UACO has chosen to grant lifetime benefits and enhancements to some without consideration to those of us who attained MM status under the previous rules and with the promises offered at the time.
By the way, my lifetime miles increased by only 65,000 on Jan 1 which is about what I expected due to the fact that I gave virtually all of my business to UA over the past 20 years. I would think that this probably meets the goal a "loyalty program". I do know that should what seems to be unfair treatment of PMUA 1MM people is not rectified, I will probably begin to look at other carriers who may offer better pricing or schedules and should AA offer a status match for UA people they will definitely get some of my business.
Lifetime 1K for people who may have flown as little as 50K miles for 5 consecutive years seems to be somewhat discriminatory in terms of preference to PMCO people. Beginning in the early 1990's I attained 1K status for 13 of 14 years with 9 of those being consecutive. Although this would seem to have had more value to UACO than 5 yrs of 50k for a PMCO customer, lifetime 1k status was never offered and I do not expect it. But I do think, as many have suggested, that Premier Platinum status, which is somewhat closer to our prior benefit level, should be granted to those of us who attained 1MM status prior to January. For that matter, it would be fine with me if those Continental people and others who went over 1 MM after the credit of partner and EQM's were given this status. However, the real issue is that UACO has chosen to grant lifetime benefits and enhancements to some without consideration to those of us who attained MM status under the previous rules and with the promises offered at the time.
By the way, my lifetime miles increased by only 65,000 on Jan 1 which is about what I expected due to the fact that I gave virtually all of my business to UA over the past 20 years. I would think that this probably meets the goal a "loyalty program". I do know that should what seems to be unfair treatment of PMUA 1MM people is not rectified, I will probably begin to look at other carriers who may offer better pricing or schedules and should AA offer a status match for UA people they will definitely get some of my business.
Jan 3, 2012, 9:38 am
#1972
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Lifetime 1K, AA EXP, VS Silver, HY Diamond, HI Gold, SPG Gold
Posts: 339
Congrats! Yes, Shannon said that if you were a MM under the pre-12/31/2011 bump, that 01/01/2012 would be the last deposit of CR-1s.
Jan 3, 2012, 9:45 am
#1973
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,168
Welcome to FT EMAW! An incredibly well-thought out first post, thanks for sharing. Hope you all do benefit from this new dialogue with UA leadership on rectifying some of the oversights.
Jan 3, 2012, 9:50 am
#1974
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
I think that a major issue for those of us who were pre Jan 2012 UA Million Mile flyers remains the downgrade of status by one tier. We were in fact, among other things, promised Lifetime Premier Executive status which was (not counting GS) the second highest tier available. Now that PE no longer exists, we have been reclassified as Premier Gold and have been essentially downgraded by one level. Continental Infinite Elites with a pretty low threshold have been granted lifetime 1K status and pre Jan 2012 2MM have been given lifetime RCC membership so there is clearly a precident for recognition of the need to grandfather benefits to some. However, the 1MM people have not been given the same consideration. Hopefully this is merely an oversight that will be corrected.
Lifetime 1K for people who may have flown as little as 50K miles for 5 consecutive years seems to be somewhat discriminatory in terms of preference to PMCO people. Beginning in the early 1990's I attained 1K status for 13 of 14 years with 9 of those being consecutive. Although this would seem to have had more value to UACO than 5 yrs of 50k for a PMCO customer, lifetime 1k status was never offered and I do not expect it. But I do think, as many have suggested, that Premier Platinum status, which is somewhat closer to our prior benefit level, should be granted to those of us who attained 1MM status prior to January. For that matter, it would be fine with me if those Continental people and others who went over 1 MM after the credit of partner and EQM's were given this status. However, the real issue is that UACO has chosen to grant lifetime benefits and enhancements to some without consideration to those of us who attained MM status under the previous rules and with the promises offered at the time.
By the way, my lifetime miles increased by only 65,000 on Jan 1 which is about what I expected due to the fact that I gave virtually all of my business to UA over the past 20 years. I would think that this probably meets the goal a "loyalty program". I do know that should what seems to be unfair treatment of PMUA 1MM people is not rectified, I will probably begin to look at other carriers who may offer better pricing or schedules and should AA offer a status match for UA people they will definitely get some of my business.
I have been saying essentially the same things for months. Most of the responses I received (either in PMs or posted in this thread) were favorable to glowing.
However, you should expect that a handful of dissenting posters will come out here and contradict you. That is just how life is. You cannot get everyone to agree on the same issues.
Thanks for your eloquent post.
-
Jan 3, 2012, 9:51 am
#1975
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,489
...However, the real issue is that UACO has chosen to grant lifetime benefits and enhancements to some without consideration to those of us who attained MM status under the previous rules and with the promises offered at the time.
By the way, my lifetime miles increased by only 65,000 on Jan 1 which is about what I expected due to the fact that I gave virtually all of my business to UA over the past 20 years. I would think that this probably meets the goal a "loyalty program"...
By the way, my lifetime miles increased by only 65,000 on Jan 1 which is about what I expected due to the fact that I gave virtually all of my business to UA over the past 20 years. I would think that this probably meets the goal a "loyalty program"...
^You're in good company. Tom Stuker, ua1flyer, acclaimed for his loyalty by UA in 2011 when he hit 10 million BIS miles, posted here that he was a little surprised to be bumped-up "only" about 3 million miles, a lower % than many others have documented. That does seem a little ironic, doesn't it?
IMHO it may be a sign of the times.
I hope you've already conveyed to UA your well-thought-out concerns. ^
Last edited by Fredd; Jan 3, 2012 at 9:57 am Reason: adding link
Jan 3, 2012, 10:14 am
#1976
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Newport, NJ, USA
Posts: 2,114
Yes, I am referring to the new where you don't get SWU and CR-1's for 1MM.
And I feel you would think it has some benefit if you end up in a situation like I did. 10 year 1K, Just shy of 1MM UA BIS miles. Get laid off during the economic downturn. Takes 2 years to find a job back at the level I was before. Will start traveling again real soon when the job starts Jan 9th. I was a general member for 2011. Would have been a general member starting the new job but the adjustment put me over the top and I get to start as a 1P.
Now if you are a 2MM and end up like I did you would never go below Platinum (once it starts). And please don't say you have no plans of getting laid off, don't see it ever happening. Believe me it does. And any level of MM status is a blessing during your time off after you would have lost status and when you start work again.
And even if you are a 1K solely on leisure travel, what if you hit an economic or health crunch and can't fly for a year or 2. Those MM benefits would start looking pretty good about then.
Too much I see on this board about the MM program people are thinking too short term and with blinders on. The real benefit is when you hit a point in life for any reason that you would not earn the status the program lets you have something. And that is pretty good. I won't go into the specific benefits lost/gained/whatever here, they have been pounded into the ground elsewhere.
And I feel you would think it has some benefit if you end up in a situation like I did. 10 year 1K, Just shy of 1MM UA BIS miles. Get laid off during the economic downturn. Takes 2 years to find a job back at the level I was before. Will start traveling again real soon when the job starts Jan 9th. I was a general member for 2011. Would have been a general member starting the new job but the adjustment put me over the top and I get to start as a 1P.
Now if you are a 2MM and end up like I did you would never go below Platinum (once it starts). And please don't say you have no plans of getting laid off, don't see it ever happening. Believe me it does. And any level of MM status is a blessing during your time off after you would have lost status and when you start work again.
And even if you are a 1K solely on leisure travel, what if you hit an economic or health crunch and can't fly for a year or 2. Those MM benefits would start looking pretty good about then.
Too much I see on this board about the MM program people are thinking too short term and with blinders on. The real benefit is when you hit a point in life for any reason that you would not earn the status the program lets you have something. And that is pretty good. I won't go into the specific benefits lost/gained/whatever here, they have been pounded into the ground elsewhere.
Jan 3, 2012, 11:23 am
#1977
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ASE
Programs: UA 1P MM, SPG Gold, HH Gold
Posts: 45
Thanks UA-NYC & FREDD for the nice words. I think that there have been a great number of sound points made since this discussion started and, hopefully, UACO is recognizing the importance of this issue to so many of their exceptionally loyal customers. After reading the rational comments that you and others made I thought it might be helpful to add my, hopefully reasonable, thoughts.
I sent similar comments to 1p voice and Jeffery Foland a while back and received the same canned response from 1p voice and no response as of this date from Mr. Foland.
I sent similar comments to 1p voice and Jeffery Foland a while back and received the same canned response from 1p voice and no response as of this date from Mr. Foland.
Jan 3, 2012, 11:33 am
#1978
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
Going over the 1MM mark with the bump has made me 1P and it is showing that on the UA website. So yes, I am starting at 1P, I don't have to go through 50K or 60 seg to get there which is what I would have had to do to get 1P if the bump had not put me over. So you may want to check your status on UA again. If the UA miles show over 1MM then you should be 1P. They have not combined the UA and CO lifetime yet so if that is what is putting you over then yes, you will have to wait a while longer.
Jan 3, 2012, 11:39 am
#1979
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
I think that a major issue for those of us who were pre Jan 2012 UA Million Mile flyers remains the downgrade of status by one tier. We were in fact, among other things, promised Lifetime Premier Executive status which was (not counting GS) the second highest tier available. Now that PE no longer exists, we have been reclassified as Premier Gold and have been essentially downgraded by one level. Continental Infinite Elites with a pretty low threshold have been granted lifetime 1K status and pre Jan 2012 2MM have been given lifetime RCC membership so there is clearly a precident for recognition of the need to grandfather benefits to some. However, the 1MM people have not been given the same consideration. Hopefully this is merely an oversight that will be corrected.
Lifetime 1K for people who may have flown as little as 50K miles for 5 consecutive years seems to be somewhat discriminatory in terms of preference to PMCO people. Beginning in the early 1990's I attained 1K status for 13 of 14 years with 9 of those being consecutive. Although this would seem to have had more value to UACO than 5 yrs of 50k for a PMCO customer, lifetime 1k status was never offered and I do not expect it. But I do think, as many have suggested, that Premier Platinum status, which is somewhat closer to our prior benefit level, should be granted to those of us who attained 1MM status prior to January. For that matter, it would be fine with me if those Continental people and others who went over 1 MM after the credit of partner and EQM's were given this status. However, the real issue is that UACO has chosen to grant lifetime benefits and enhancements to some without consideration to those of us who attained MM status under the previous rules and with the promises offered at the time.
By the way, my lifetime miles increased by only 65,000 on Jan 1 which is about what I expected due to the fact that I gave virtually all of my business to UA over the past 20 years. I would think that this probably meets the goal a "loyalty program". I do know that should what seems to be unfair treatment of PMUA 1MM people is not rectified, I will probably begin to look at other carriers who may offer better pricing or schedules and should AA offer a status match for UA people they will definitely get some of my business.
Lifetime 1K for people who may have flown as little as 50K miles for 5 consecutive years seems to be somewhat discriminatory in terms of preference to PMCO people. Beginning in the early 1990's I attained 1K status for 13 of 14 years with 9 of those being consecutive. Although this would seem to have had more value to UACO than 5 yrs of 50k for a PMCO customer, lifetime 1k status was never offered and I do not expect it. But I do think, as many have suggested, that Premier Platinum status, which is somewhat closer to our prior benefit level, should be granted to those of us who attained 1MM status prior to January. For that matter, it would be fine with me if those Continental people and others who went over 1 MM after the credit of partner and EQM's were given this status. However, the real issue is that UACO has chosen to grant lifetime benefits and enhancements to some without consideration to those of us who attained MM status under the previous rules and with the promises offered at the time.
By the way, my lifetime miles increased by only 65,000 on Jan 1 which is about what I expected due to the fact that I gave virtually all of my business to UA over the past 20 years. I would think that this probably meets the goal a "loyalty program". I do know that should what seems to be unfair treatment of PMUA 1MM people is not rectified, I will probably begin to look at other carriers who may offer better pricing or schedules and should AA offer a status match for UA people they will definitely get some of my business.
Jan 3, 2012, 12:00 pm
#1980
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2003
Programs: UA*Lifetime GS, Hyatt* Lifetime Globalist
Posts: 12,331
Just saw my account got credited two CR-1s on December 31st.
I guess this is the PMUA MM benefit that will go away in 2012.
I guess this is the PMUA MM benefit that will go away in 2012.