Presidential Plus Card Changes

Old Oct 29, 2011, 7:56 am
  #706  
 
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A relatively simple fix would be to say that no more than 5000 flex eqms can be applied to achieve 1k status / upgrades. (Leaving all the other logic the same)

That way, the 96k / 147k BIS flier can top off as needed, but you can't 'buy' 1K status with 100,000 flex EQMs.

Still a devaluation, but vastly less so.
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 11:20 am
  #707  
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Originally Posted by smashr
A relatively simple fix would be to say that no more than 5000 flex eqms can be applied to achieve 1k status / upgrades. (Leaving all the other logic the same)

That way, the 96k / 147k BIS flier can top off as needed, but you can't 'buy' 1K status with 100,000 flex EQMs.

Still a devaluation, but vastly less so.
The key to FEQMs is the word flexible. Given the annunced changes they are anything but. It's as simple as that.
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Old Oct 29, 2011, 11:46 am
  #708  
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Originally Posted by Xyzzy
The key to FEQMs is the word flexible.
The other key is that there are different levels of flexibility. It's as simple as that.

Originally Posted by tanlines
I'm not sure I understand your question.
Why does it matter if someone who rarely flies has Platinum status? The point is that including the first person in your example greatly weakens your argument.

Originally Posted by tanlines
it will CERTAINLY "matter" to any person who flies 96K miles, and finds out he can't use 4K of his Flex miles to reach the 1K tier....
How will the fact that the non-flier of which you speak got status matter?

Originally Posted by tanlines
And it will most DEFINITELY matter to someone who flies 147,500 miles but can't use 2500 FlexEQMs to reach the next set of GPUs!
And that non-flier's status won't matter to this person either.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Oct 29, 2011 at 2:12 pm Reason: merge
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 5:14 pm
  #709  
 
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Originally Posted by smashr
A relatively simple fix would be to say that no more than 5000 flex eqms can be applied to achieve 1k status / upgrades. (Leaving all the other logic the same)

That way, the 96k / 147k BIS flier can top off as needed, but you can't 'buy' 1K status with 100,000 flex EQMs.

Still a devaluation, but vastly less so.
I would agree that some sort of yearly "cap" on how many FlexEQMs one could use would certainly be a better proposition than the current rule that you can't use ANY beyond 75K, but I'm not holding my breath that the airline will
agree with me.

If you're already a UC member, it's just another reason why "flex" EQMs miles are now useless if you already fly >75K miles.

Originally Posted by mahasamatman
The other key is that there are different levels of flexibility. It's as simple as that.


Why does it matter if someone who rarely flies has Platinum status? The point is that including the first person in your example greatly weakens your argument.


How will the fact that the non-flier of which you speak got status matter?


And that non-flier's status won't matter to this person either.

Do you REALLY not understand why this rule change is a significant reduction in the value of FlexEQMs for people that already fly >75K miles, or are you just being argumentative?

Last edited by iluv2fly; Oct 30, 2011 at 6:56 pm Reason: merge
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 5:35 pm
  #710  
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Originally Posted by tanlines
Do you REALLY not understand why this rule change is a significant reduction in the value of FlexEQMs for people that already fly >75K miles, or are you just being argumentative?
Significant reduction? Yes. But at the risk of being burned in this witch hunt, allow me to opine that FEQMs are a potentially significant value to anyone regardless of status. Why? Because none of us know the futurenone that is with the possible exception of a clairvoyant demigod. And while our dear 1K friends may like to assume they will be 1K for the foreseeable future, the fact is they don't know the future and they may not be 1K for as long as they expect. In such event, the FEQMs they pooh-pooh today may be a godsend to Platinum they cherish tomorrow.

RNE, a clairvoyant demigod.
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 5:52 pm
  #711  
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Originally Posted by tanlines
Do you REALLY not understand why this rule change is a significant reduction in the value of FlexEQMs for people that already fly >75K miles, or are you just being argumentative?
Since the option to use FEQM to make 1K never existed in the past, I don't see how it can possibly be seen as any reduction in benefits to anyone. And you've totally and repeatedly missed the point of my posts anyway, so I don't think it's possible to have a constructive discussion about this.
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 6:34 pm
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Originally Posted by mahasamatman
Since the option to use FEQM to make 1K never existed in the past, I don't see how it can possibly be seen as any reduction in benefits to anyone.
But the option to use FEQMs to obtain the SWUs and regional upgrades associated with the 100K level (or 125K or 150K, etc.) levels HAS "existed in the past."

In 2010 and 2011, it was possible for a >75K BIS flyer on CO to use his earned FEQMs to reach the 100K level (or the 125K or 150K levels, etc.) to achieve the upgrade instruments associated with that next higher level above what was actually flown BIS.

The new rule for 2012, however, takes that option away. Hence, the value of FEQMs to a person who flies >75K BIS miles starting next year will essentially be zero.
.
It's not about having the title of" 1K"... it's about losing the ability to use FlexEQMs to achieve the upgrade instruments associated with the next higher tier.

For CO Platinums, losing the ability to use FEQMs to cross the next "threshold" is a SERIOUS devaluation of any FEQMs they have earned to date.

Originally Posted by RNE
Significant reduction? Yes. But at the risk of being burned in this witch hunt, allow me to opine that FEQMs are a potentially significant value to anyone regardless of status. Why? Because none of us know the future—none that is with the possible exception of a clairvoyant demigod. And while our dear 1K friends may like to assume they will be 1K for the foreseeable future, the fact is they don't know the future and they may not be 1K for as long as they expect. In such event, the FEQMs they pooh-pooh today may be a godsend to Platinum they cherish tomorrow.

RNE, a clairvoyant demigod.

Ah, so there ARE others on here who subscribe to the "None are so blind as those who refuse to see" and "As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care" philosophies??

Well done, Grasshopper!


Last edited by tanlines; Oct 30, 2011 at 7:04 pm Reason: merge/clarity
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 6:38 pm
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Has UACO said what the reasoning is behind the 1k rule?
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 7:01 pm
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Originally Posted by lensman
Has UACO said what the reasoning is behind the 1k rule?
Officially? Not that I'm aware of.

However, if MP believes that their cost for RPU/GPU instruments on the larger combined PMUA system is going to be >>>> greater than CO's cost was for issuing SWUs/RUs in the past (which, of course, is most certainly true), then a new rule restricting access to those instruments by any means other than actually flying >100K BIS miles to earn them, would likely make sense to PMUA management.

Many here have speculated that it has more to do with "protecting the sanctity" of the 1K status, etc., but the facts, however, don't support that conclusion.
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 8:34 pm
  #715  
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Originally Posted by tanlines
.... Many here have speculated that it has more to do with "protecting the sanctity" of the 1K status, etc., but the facts, however, don't support that conclusion.
Not sure I would completely dismiss this, for a couple of reasons
-- PMUA rarely offered 1K status match / fastracks
-- PMUA rarely offer the ability to buy-up to 1K
-- in PMUA, the max EQMs from credit cards was 10K, FEQMs could be much more
also
there is significant dissatisfaction in the 1K ranks due SWU clearing rate which is at least in part due to the number of 1Ks.
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Old Oct 30, 2011, 10:50 pm
  #716  
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Originally Posted by WineCountryUA
Not sure I would completely dismiss this, for a couple of reasons
-- PMUA rarely offered 1K status match / fastracks
-- PMUA rarely offer the ability to buy-up to 1K
-- in PMUA, the max EQMs from credit cards was 10K, FEQMs could be much more
also
there is significant dissatisfaction in the 1K ranks due SWU clearing rate which is at least in part due to the number of 1Ks.
There might be several reasons for the change, as discussed, and some of them might make sense from the airline's perspective.

I don't understand, though, why UA credit cards still allow up to 10k EQM to be used to get to 1K. They announced that the CO card won't allow this beginning on Jan 1, but no similar changes have been announced for the UA card, with just two months remaining before the new year.

Whether to protect the sanctity of 1K or to give fewer SWUs, there is no good reason why the UA and CO cards shouldn't have the same limitation regarding 1K.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 8:06 am
  #717  
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Originally Posted by tanlines
Hence, the value of FEQMs to a person who flies >75K BIS miles starting next year will essentially be zero.
I can see you'd rather have your hyperbole than be disabused of it. Wallow away, maestro.

Originally Posted by tanlines
"None are so blind as those who refuse to see" and "As long as it doesn't affect me, I don't care" philosophies? Well done, Grasshopper!
Thank you. But you're only half right. I do care.

RNE, sympathizing, "If your FEQMs are so worthless, I'll gladly take them off your hands."
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 11:00 am
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Originally Posted by RNE
I can see you'd rather have your hyperbole than be disabused of it. Wallow away, maestro.
I'm not sure I understand why you think I'm being hyperbolic... Of what value are these miles for anyone who flies >75K BIS, if they can't use them to "top off" to a next-higher reward level (i.e., the extra RPUs/GPUs @ 100K, 125K, 150K, etc.)?

With the new rule, FEQMs are only "valuable" to someone that wouldn't already earn Plat. status based upon their BIS miles.


Originally Posted by RNE
Thank you. But you're only half right. I do care.
I wasn't implying that you didn't care... I was agreeing with you that it seems there are others here who don't (yet) see this as a significant issue.

Originally Posted by RNE
RNE, sympathizing, "If your FEQMs are so worthless, I'll gladly take them off your hands."
I'll have my agent contact your agent.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 11:06 am
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Originally Posted by uwr
There might be several reasons for the change, as discussed, and some of them might make sense from the airline's perspective.

I don't understand, though, why UA credit cards still allow up to 10k EQM to be used to get to 1K. They announced that the CO card won't allow this beginning on Jan 1, but no similar changes have been announced for the UA card, with just two months remaining before the new year.

Whether to protect the sanctity of 1K or to give fewer SWUs, there is no good reason why the UA and CO cards shouldn't have the same limitation regarding 1K.
If it's not going to be allowed on the CO-branded card, one can imagine that it won't be allowed going forward using the UA-branded card, either.

Perhaps when that happens, more "almost-1Ks" will realize why this should be a concern for them, as well.
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Old Oct 31, 2011, 11:41 am
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Originally Posted by RNE
RNE, sympathizing, "If your FEQMs are so worthless, I'll gladly take them off your hands."
While I generally agree with you that his has gotten overblown, being that they expire in 3 years IS a double whammy ... you can't use them AND they're going to take them away IS a bit .......ly ...
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