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An open question to moderators RE: this United consolidated forum
And the question is, isn't this a little bit premature?
Yes, the airlines are one company, but wouldn't it be better to wait until "customer day 1" or some point in the future where the company is a little more operationally merged from a customer's perspective? I was envisioning/hoping at that point you would close the CO forum, or close both forums and start a new one, and then we'd just have one forum going forward. Now we have three open forums for one airline.. it was already a PITA to have to read and post in 2 forums... now I've got to read and post in 3.. when will I have time to work? :D I was just wondering what others thought. |
Ya know, there is a sticky thread at the top with the answer to this. ;)
Originally Posted by xyzzy
(Post 16135472)
Welcome to the new United Airlines forum. Here, we will discuss issues related to the integration of Continental and United into a combined airline. While the merger has been approved, it has not yet been finalized. The integration of the airlines and their loyalty programs is well under way, though.
... To summarize, please use these three forums as follows:
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I did chuckle a bit when I saw this merged forum. Here we have a merged airline with seperate FF programs, an airline that still can't even show seat maps for each other on the other's web site, and yet we have have a merged forum here...someone here should get a job at the new UA. ;)
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Is this "consolidation" a little bit pre-mature?
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Thanks for your questions.
It is true that in the past, forums were often merged only after the merge of the legacy frequent flyer programs. Please know that the legacy CO and UA moderation team has been working together since last fall on how to best serve the members of those forums and we came to the collective deciscion that it would be best to merge the forums sooner than later. One consideration is that there have been a number of announcements about the future airline that imact both CO and UA travellers (see below); it seems clunky at best to try and have conversations in both legacy forums on the same topic. This consolidated forum allows for a single thread in which all can participate. We also encourage the CO and UA forum members to use this new forum to get to know each other; it's likely we'll be seeing each other at checkin lines, lounges, and boarding gates (fighting for the last upgrade, of course) in the days to come. Hope this helps, FlyinHawaiian, Co-Moderator United Mileage Plus Forum Frequent Flyer Program Changes 26 October 2009 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/conti...scussions.html 16 November 2010 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/conti...m-changes.html 16 November 2010 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...elopments.html 8 March 2011 http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...tus-tools.html 16 March 2011 - Mileage Plus and OnePass award chart changes – Eff. Jun. 15, 2011 Passenger Experince - Seating 17 February 2011- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/conti...here-stay.html |
No matter what the mods would have done, someone would have complained. Too late, too soon. Don't people realize there is no one "right" way to do this, not yours, not theirs, not anyone's. As long as there is a reasonably clear way to communicate about the different issues, that's what is needed and that's what we have. Thank you, mods, for taking the time to think about this, learn from previous experience, and not just do everything the same way because it is the easiest way.
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Perhaps it is just me and I admit to that, but I cannot figure out where to post now. When I look at this forum (which is the main one that appears) everything is moved/merged/closed already. Giving three forums at once is not very user-friendly imo. On which date does this "big" forum become the only one to pay attention to?
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I can't believe you guys did this. Brutal.
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Originally Posted by ldsant
(Post 16149323)
Perhaps it is just me and I admit to that, but I cannot figure out where to post now.
Originally Posted by xyzzy
(Post 16135472)
To summarize, please use these three forums as follows:
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So, if the new United forum is specifically for "Discussion of items related to the combined post-merger United Airlines and Mileage Plus" how does having a "The Penatly Box" thread fit in? I've scanned the thread and it appears to have absolutely nothing to do with the stated intent of the new UA forum.
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Originally Posted by vandalby
(Post 16149865)
So, if the new United forum is specifically for "Discussion of items related to the combined post-merger United Airlines and Mileage Plus" how does having a "The Penatly Box" thread fit in? I've scanned the thread and it appears to have absolutely nothing to do with the stated intent of the new UA forum.
Also, if anything, seems that if this forum was created, everything could technically be posted here since the discussion could always apply to forward-looking flights. |
I agree. Patrolling 3 forums is too much work. If you really want to go down the path of combining now on the theory that so many things are relevant to both, then let's just close the subforums and put it all in this one forum with the CO/UA only things clearly marked.
Changes the moderators think we will like. Reminds me of the safety video with changes to the program that Jeff thinks we will like. |
First, glad to see the thread unlocked, I couldn't understand the need to lock it down after the OP and just one follow-on post.
What the heck, I'm a glutton for punishment - add me to the list of confused, as well. Yes, I can read the listing of what the mods felt went into each forum, but I'm not seeing the connection in practice and it seems premature. For one thing, the merger is not complete and UA/CO are not one single, solitary entity yet. So, there are still independent airlines and mileage programs, with increasingly similar yet still different, rules, policies, and quirks. So we're considering "pre-merger" to be up to 31 March 2011, based on...?? What milestone exactly occurred on 01 April? Shouldn't "pre-merger" just be a historical record of the state of things prior to the (complete) merger - and residual issues from events prior to that merger? |
First of all, many thanks to the volunteer moderators for all of the time and effort they have been putting into thinking about how to best deal with the merger on FT. There are obviously many ways to do this, and a lot of careful thought was obviously put into the current scheme. However, by re-opening this thread, I gather that the mods are not averse to receiving some additional feedback and suggestions, so here goes.
Having now seen this in action, my personal suggestion would be similar to that of gawhite411 above: to the extent you have taken the bold action of creating a third forum, perhaps it would be easiest to just have all new posts here. People can indicate in the titles whether their message is specific to booking a UA or CO flight. This would not only perhaps cut down on the need to monitor multiple forums, but would have the advantage of cross-education -- i.e., even if I have been flying primarily United, the odds of me getting on a CO flight in the future have increased due to merger-related activities, so it is probably good for me to see some amount of the CO-specific traffic. The old CO and MP forums could be kept alive, but on an archived basis. Someone posting in the "consolidated" forum could link back to an earlier thread from one of those forums if it is relevant. This might have the advantage not only of preparing us for the future, but helping us all get a better understanding of the present situation. I'm not sure about the OP forum, but in the MP forum, many of the great master threads contain a lot of information that is now simply out of date. Requiring people to post new messages in a third forum, and only link back to the old threads where relevant, might be the easiest way for a fresh start. This is coming from the perspective of someone who is fairly new to FT; I'm sure there are others with the benefit of experience with what worked (and didn't work) with previous airline mergers. And the moderators are obviously best placed to determine what works best from a technical perspective. I certainly respect the final decisions of the mods, whatever they may be; there are a lot of potentially competing equities here, and as someone said above, no solution will be perfect for everyone. Thanks for putting so much thought into this though. |
Originally Posted by ZenFlyer
(Post 16152999)
First of all, many thanks to the volunteer moderators for all of the time and effort they have been putting into thinking about how to best deal with the merger on FT. There are obviously many ways to do this, and a lot of careful thought was obviously put into the current scheme. However, by re-opening this thread, I gather that the mods are not averse to receiving some additional feedback and suggestions, so here goes.
Having now seen this in action, my personal suggestion would be similar to that of gawhite411 above: to the extent you have taken the bold action of creating a third forum, perhaps it would be easiest to just have all new posts here. People can indicate in the titles whether their message is specific to booking a UA or CO flight. This would not only perhaps cut down on the need to monitor multiple forums, but would have the advantage of cross-education -- i.e., even if I have been flying primarily United, the odds of me getting on a CO flight in the future have increased due to merger-related activities, so it is probably good for me to see some amount of the CO-specific traffic. The old CO and MP forums could be kept alive, but on an archived basis. Someone posting in the "consolidated" forum could link back to an earlier thread from one of those forums if it is relevant. This might have the advantage not only of preparing us for the future, but helping us all get a better understanding of the present situation. I'm not sure about the OP forum, but in the MP forum, many of the great master threads contain a lot of information that is now simply out of date. Requiring people to post new messages in a third forum, and only link back to the old threads where relevant, might be the easiest way for a fresh start. This is coming from the perspective of someone who is fairly new to FT; I'm sure there are others with the benefit of experience with what worked (and didn't work) with previous airline mergers. And the moderators are obviously best placed to determine what works best from a technical perspective. I certainly respect the final decisions of the mods, whatever they may be; there are a lot of potentially competing equities here, and as someone said above, no solution will be perfect for everyone. Thanks for putting so much thought into this though. |
Originally Posted by ZenFlyer
(Post 16152999)
First of all, many thanks to the volunteer moderators for all of the time and effort they have been putting into thinking about how to best deal with the merger on FT. There are obviously many ways to do this, and a lot of careful thought was obviously put into the current scheme. However, by re-opening this thread, I gather that the mods are not averse to receiving some additional feedback and suggestions, so here goes.
Having now seen this in action, my personal suggestion would be similar to that of gawhite411 above: to the extent you have taken the bold action of creating a third forum, perhaps it would be easiest to just have all new posts here. People can indicate in the titles whether their message is specific to booking a UA or CO flight. This would not only perhaps cut down on the need to monitor multiple forums, but would have the advantage of cross-education -- i.e., even if I have been flying primarily United, the odds of me getting on a CO flight in the future have increased due to merger-related activities, so it is probably good for me to see some amount of the CO-specific traffic. The old CO and MP forums could be kept alive, but on an archived basis. Someone posting in the "consolidated" forum could link back to an earlier thread from one of those forums if it is relevant. This might have the advantage not only of preparing us for the future, but helping us all get a better understanding of the present situation. I'm not sure about the OP forum, but in the MP forum, many of the great master threads contain a lot of information that is now simply out of date. Requiring people to post new messages in a third forum, and only link back to the old threads where relevant, might be the easiest way for a fresh start. This is coming from the perspective of someone who is fairly new to FT; I'm sure there are others with the benefit of experience with what worked (and didn't work) with previous airline mergers. And the moderators are obviously best placed to determine what works best from a technical perspective. I certainly respect the final decisions of the mods, whatever they may be; there are a lot of potentially competing equities here, and as someone said above, no solution will be perfect for everyone. Thanks for putting so much thought into this though. |
Originally Posted by ZenFlyer
(Post 16152999)
First of all, many thanks to the volunteer moderators for all of the time and effort they have been putting into thinking about how to best deal with the merger on FT. There are obviously many ways to do this, and a lot of careful thought was obviously put into the current scheme. However, by re-opening this thread, I gather that the mods are not averse to receiving some additional feedback and suggestions, so here goes.
Having now seen this in action, my personal suggestion would be similar to that of gawhite411 above: to the extent you have taken the bold action of creating a third forum, perhaps it would be easiest to just have all new posts here. People can indicate in the titles whether their message is specific to booking a UA or CO flight. This would not only perhaps cut down on the need to monitor multiple forums, but would have the advantage of cross-education -- i.e., even if I have been flying primarily United, the odds of me getting on a CO flight in the future have increased due to merger-related activities, so it is probably good for me to see some amount of the CO-specific traffic. The old CO and MP forums could be kept alive, but on an archived basis. Someone posting in the "consolidated" forum could link back to an earlier thread from one of those forums if it is relevant. This might have the advantage not only of preparing us for the future, but helping us all get a better understanding of the present situation. I'm not sure about the OP forum, but in the MP forum, many of the great master threads contain a lot of information that is now simply out of date. Requiring people to post new messages in a third forum, and only link back to the old threads where relevant, might be the easiest way for a fresh start. This is coming from the perspective of someone who is fairly new to FT; I'm sure there are others with the benefit of experience with what worked (and didn't work) with previous airline mergers. And the moderators are obviously best placed to determine what works best from a technical perspective. I certainly respect the final decisions of the mods, whatever they may be; there are a lot of potentially competing equities here, and as someone said above, no solution will be perfect for everyone. Thanks for putting so much thought into this though. |
Three "United" forums without any real reason other than mods saying we need it? Clear as mud, yes? Another reason why i spend less time year, yes again. That along with 40+ page threads that take a day to read through to find useful information, oh yes, another reason why i spend less time here
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Originally Posted by NeoOfTheCRS
(Post 16157016)
That along with 40+ page threads that take a day to read through to find useful information, oh yes, another reason why i spend less time here
The other serious grievance I have with this new system is that so many bloody threads are being moved from here to a sub forum or vice versa. I start reading a thread in one place and then come back here to find it's been moved consistent with the overall goal of maximizing complexity. How can we appeal the decision of the moderators to try to get them overruled and force them to employ one of the suggestions made above? Clearly the people have spoken. |
Originally Posted by gawhite411
(Post 16157762)
The endless threads with all similar items combined seems to be the fashion on the UA board. It does make it tough to focus on the latest and greatest.
The other serious grievance I have with this new system is that so many bloody threads are being moved from here to a sub forum or vice versa. I start reading a thread in one place and then come back here to find it's been moved consistent with the overall goal of maximizing complexity. How can we appeal the decision of the moderators to try to get them overruled and force them to employ one of the suggestions made above? Clearly the people have spoken. |
Originally Posted by UA-NYC
(Post 16157893)
+1 - another "no" vote on a 3rd forum until Customer Day 1, 1/1/12, or whenever that magical one airline date is
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My only request is tht there be less moving and merging of threads on the new forum. On the CO side this hardly happens, but everytime I go to the UA side, there's at least 4 threads where I see have been moved into existing threads, tht take at least a day to read through and this seems to happen all the time. Also I've noticed on the UA side of the forum mods tend to lock up the threads after about 1 or 2 posts. I knw alot of us like to participate in the discussions about a particular subject, however it's hard to answer or participate whn a thread is locked. I would suggest tht everyone be able to at least give their opinion before the thread is locked, not jus after a few posts. And if the mods feel the thread is straying off course by all means lock it, but at least give others the chance to post in the thread.
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We as a moderator group elected to move forward with a combined forum as many, if not most, announcements and related issues apply to the merged organization. We have elected to keep the legacy forums active as there are certain threads and topics that may be important in the short term but not a candidate for the combined forum. This will help us maintain a "clean" forum as much as possible, which is an incredibly difficult task given the number of posts under management.
Does this mean that some may not agree with our decision? Of course, but I can say that there was a considerable amount of discussion about timing and we as a group firmly believe that it is best to present a combined forum sooner rather than later. |
I would like to thank those of you who took the time to share your thoughts regarding the original question, which I was happy to answer (and I hope that MBM3's response above is an indication that this was something that we did work on collectively and were in agreement with). I'd also like to point out that there were advocates of this organization many months ago:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ld-forums.html I do also note that some of you have expressed some other comments about moderation and that has never been something that I have been confortable discussing in an open thread for a variety of reasons (and also because there is an FT Rule that discourages this). For example, I'm going to decline to answer in this thread any questions about The Penalty Box, as it's not topical to the OP's question. I would encourage any member with such a concern to contact myself (or any other volunteer moderator) via PM or email. Speaking for myself, I always try and respond to civil and thoughtful questions, although I might not do a good job in responding immediately nor can I always provide a lenghtly or protracted dialog. |
Originally Posted by FlyinHawaiian
(Post 16159064)
I would like to thank those of you who took the time to share your thoughts regarding the original question, which I was happy to answer (and I hope that MBM3's response above is an indication that this was something that we did work on collectively and were in agreement with). I'd also like to point out that there were advocates of this organization many months ago:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/talkb...ld-forums.html I also wanted to give a hats off to the moderators here.. in general I find the moderation good around here. Not to say I agree with every thread closing.. or the creation of this new combined thread at this early date.. but all in all you guys do a great job and I appreciate it. |
Thanks for your comments.
I should mention to all that I don't think it's any secret that once the One Pass and Mileage Plus programs are merged and the airline is operating under a single operating certificate, there won't be a need for the legacy forums and there will be only a singe forum going forward. The current organization is only a temporary one and should only last for a few months. |
Originally Posted by SEA1K4EVR
(Post 16159513)
I also wanted to give a hats off to the moderators here.. in general I find the moderation good around here. Not to say I agree with every thread closing.. or the creation of this new combined thread at this early date.. but all in all you guys do a great job and I appreciate it.
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Wow. Three forums is too confusing. Needs to be either one combined or two separate (leave the old UA and CO open). Having three is too much work for the readers as well as the Moderators (I see they have been moving posts around). Anyway, just my 2 cents.
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Again - like others I know that moderating is a tireless and thankless job - so I can't thank the moderates enough for thier work!
Looking at the forum situation now though, it really is a fair bit confusing as to where things should truly go. While there are some cross-over areas, the majority of threads tend to pertain to either one airline or the other. I'm in the same camp as many others here around just simply closing the legacy forums (and moving threads here). It's going to happen eventually anyway... At this point I have to check multiple forums and try and keep track of where things should be going. Again, appreciate the work - just some additional thoughts. |
Like others I appreciate the mods efforts. Not a fun job, but they do it for the love of FT/UA/CO - and of course the $$ they're paid. Oops - none.
While on paper I'm supportive of the 3 forums, I - like others - am not finding it any easier now that the third's been put in place. Presumably after time that will change. I also think it will be interesting to see which moderator style will settle in in the future. One side doesn't do as many merges or closures as the other based on comments by FTers in multiple forums. So will be interesting to see how they 'mesh' their different styles. And no my comment doesn't violate TOS. It's an observation. Cheers. |
Thank you moderators for all of your work. I agree there is no easy way to handle this change, but I have to agree with the others that the current three forums are a bit too much. I would either leave the two forums for now until UACO is really one airline or go ahead and merge eveything.
Just my two cents. |
Well it's pretty clear here what most participants want. It's also clear that there is an element of pride in play here and that the powers that be are utterly intransigent preventing any reconsideration or admission that another way would be superior. Can't admit a mistake. Since they've heavily discussed it among themselves extensively, they know what's best for the masses. Given the absence of any way to overrule them, I suppose we'll just have to solider on until customer day 1.
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Originally Posted by gawhite411
(Post 16162727)
Well it's pretty clear here what most participants want.
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Given this just went into effect on Friday & it's only Tuesday & the thread itself only has 33 posts, some of which are by the mods explaining the thought processes, I'm not sure I'm willing to extrapolate that to mean most participants want to be the old way. I figure it will take a few days & people will adjust (including me).
Also, I don't see this as pride or superior or unwilling to admit mistakes. Where did that come from? It's not easy when airlines merge, & I don't envy the mods their jobs in trying to make this work for us. I wasn't part of, but I heard the Delta/Northwest merger wasn't pretty, both in terms of the merger itself & in trying to merge the forums. This new method might be a case of learning from prior experience. Cheers. |
My preference would be a single forum at this time, no subforums. Only one place to click and sort through the threads.
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Originally Posted by wanaflyforless
(Post 16165046)
My preference would be a single forum at this time, no subforums. Only one place to click and sort through the threads.
Dave |
I prefer to pretend as long as possible that the merger isn't happening.
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Continued, open pre-merger forums is silly. Just throw all UACO in the same playpen already. Should have done it the day the merger was approved.
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Originally Posted by SEA1K4EVR
(Post 16143391)
And the question is, isn't this a little bit premature?
Yes, the airlines are one company, but wouldn't it be better to wait until "customer day 1" or some point in the future where the company is a little more operationally merged from a customer's perspective? I was envisioning/hoping at that point you would close the CO forum, or close both forums and start a new one, and then we'd just have one forum going forward. Now we have three open forums for one airline.. it was already a PITA to have to read and post in 2 forums... now I've got to read and post in 3.. when will I have time to work? :D I was just wondering what others thought.
Originally Posted by sbm12
(Post 16149739)
Is it really that confusing??
:confused: |
Originally Posted by transportbiz
(Post 16145387)
I did chuckle a bit when I saw this merged forum. Here we have a merged airline with seperate FF programs, an airline that still can't even show seat maps for each other on the other's web site, and yet we have have a merged forum here...someone here should get a job at the new UA. ;)
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