Vaccine passports for UK citizens for international travel
Mar 2, 2021, 11:36 pm
#31
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,211
Why an app? We have a system for validating that travellers are in conformance with vaccination requirements already -- the WHO's international vaccination certificates which have been in use for over a century. Just add a certification page for COVID and use existing documentation and existing procedures to validate. Seems like no one believes a policy is actually real any more until there's an app for it.
It-has-to-be-an-app.
Mar 3, 2021, 1:36 am
#32
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: London / Berlin
Posts: 130
Because these days you must overcomplicate things. I've been beating that drum for a while (I know of people who are vaccinators and got their yellow book stamped with C-19 vaccines too) but it has to be an app. Doesn't matter if it takes longer, it's potentially risky for privacy, opens up the chance of mass hacking and is 110% going to cost more.
It-has-to-be-an-app.
It-has-to-be-an-app.
I do understand the concern, I really do. But I suppose the way I look at it is this: the NHS is providing you with an incredibly powerful tool. It makes health records and services more readily available to people who otherwise will not use them, including, when it is legal to travel, the ability to demonstrate to authorities that you are vaccinated against a deadly disease. Isn't that just a fabulous thing?
Mar 3, 2021, 2:45 am
#33
Join Date: May 2014
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Almost word for word what my wife just said to me. I had never guessed 13901 was her alias...
I do understand the concern, I really do. But I suppose the way I look at it is this: the NHS is providing you with an incredibly powerful tool. It makes health records and services more readily available to people who otherwise will not use them, including, when it is legal to travel, the ability to demonstrate to authorities that you are vaccinated against a deadly disease. Isn't that just a fabulous thing?
I do understand the concern, I really do. But I suppose the way I look at it is this: the NHS is providing you with an incredibly powerful tool. It makes health records and services more readily available to people who otherwise will not use them, including, when it is legal to travel, the ability to demonstrate to authorities that you are vaccinated against a deadly disease. Isn't that just a fabulous thing?
I think that digitalising the public administration is great. Being a dual national residing in a third country gives me a triple-whammy of bureaucracies and I have to say that in the last few years the increase in digital services has been a blessing, even more so now that Italy is also allowing e-ID cards (and all the related services) to residents abroad... So the more online services, the better.
What I object to is digitalisation for the sake of digitalising things. It's a problem I keep on finding in my work career: in some instances creating an app, or a program is just not needed. The NHS wants to provide digital records to their "clients"? Awesome I say. But from there to implementing a world-wide system of apps and databases to show a Covid vaccination, accessible by a Border agent in London, Tokyo, Buenos Aires and N'Djamena is a big step. Especially when the alternative, the good old certificat jaune, is in use and respected for arguably worse illnesses (yellow fever mightn't be as spreadable but it sure is deadlier).
Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox.
Mar 4, 2021, 6:19 am
#34
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In any case, there is a traceable batch numbering system which means you just can't add an entry in because you feel like doing so. You would be almost certain to be found out.
So that would be the UK, EU+EEA and Israel as things stand.
The mob behind it is sitting in Calabria, Moldova or Ukraine. All they need is some access to to the system.
Mar 4, 2021, 11:00 am
#35
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All it needs is a party (who is allowed to vaccinate) to use up a vaccine (but not inoculating it), write down its serial number and putting that serial number into the system. The patient (who doesn't want to be vaccinated, but who wants to travel/party) pays a good amount of money - and voila!!!! The new vaccination app is practically worthless.
Mar 4, 2021, 11:05 am
#36
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I registered for this service a couple of years back. It all went well until I wanted to book an appointment. It turns out my GP surgery has signed up for an alternative version (AskMyGP), and only allows requests from that Website / App.
It did make me wonder if a lot of money had been spent on developing an NHS App where an "off-the-shelf" package could have been bought instead
I just tried to access the NHS App on my new phone (with a new number). I couldn't do it as it uses an SMS for 2FA, but I've put in a request to get my phone number changed. Let's see if it's a bit more "joined up" after a couple of years.
It did make me wonder if a lot of money had been spent on developing an NHS App where an "off-the-shelf" package could have been bought instead
I just tried to access the NHS App on my new phone (with a new number). I couldn't do it as it uses an SMS for 2FA, but I've put in a request to get my phone number changed. Let's see if it's a bit more "joined up" after a couple of years.
I don't have the option to request access via the app, so I contacted my surgery via the alternative AskMyGP app and asked them to do it (it actually says to do this in the NHS App). The surgery practice manager replied saying I had to request access via the NHS App...
I give in, and resign myself to never leaving the country again
Mar 4, 2021, 11:08 am
#37
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,345
I'm now in the App. However, I only have the basic info rather than the Detailed Coded version.
I don't have the option to request access via the app, so I contacted my surgery via the alternative AskMyGP app and asked them to do it (it actually says to do this in the NHS App). The surgery practice manager replied saying I had to request access via the NHS App...
I give in, and resign myself to never leaving the country again
I don't have the option to request access via the app, so I contacted my surgery via the alternative AskMyGP app and asked them to do it (it actually says to do this in the NHS App). The surgery practice manager replied saying I had to request access via the NHS App...
I give in, and resign myself to never leaving the country again
Mar 4, 2021, 11:53 am
#38
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All it needs is a party (who is allowed to vaccinate) to use up a vaccine (but not inoculating it), write down its serial number and putting that serial number into the system. The patient (who doesn't want to be vaccinated, but who wants to travel/party) pays a good amount of money - and voila!!!! The new vaccination app is practically worthless.
Mar 4, 2021, 4:11 pm
#39
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What I object to is digitalisation for the sake of digitalising things. It's a problem I keep on finding in my work career: in some instances creating an app, or a program is just not needed. The NHS wants to provide digital records to their "clients"? Awesome I say. But from there to implementing a world-wide system of apps and databases to show a Covid vaccination, accessible by a Border agent in London, Tokyo, Buenos Aires and N'Djamena is a big step. Especially when the alternative, the good old certificat jaune, is in use and respected for arguably worse illnesses (yellow fever mightn't be as spreadable but it sure is deadlier).
Oh, and of course I've got the NHS Covid app.
Mar 5, 2021, 12:27 am
#40
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It's just infeasible. For starters the processing is like a factory, I don't do clinical assessments, but I do the vaccination, I am watched by 3 people and 7 cameras. The form I sign off goes to a separate team, which reconciles batch numbers, vial and NHS numbers, then updates the system, it then goes off to the GP surgery for verification. We even record which arm and muscle the vaccine goes into, but I'm not the one recording that. Any data entry has the finger prints of the person doing the work. I am incorruptible, most of the other vaccinators are millionaires (at least in pension terms) being retired GPs. Those idiots that don't want the jabs are fortunately few in number, aren't exactly the travelling sort and certainly not rich enough to bribe very affluent people. Now is it possible for one person, somewhere, to find a way through it? Well nothing is foolproof but this is pretty darn close. It's probably more secure than a passport.
Mar 5, 2021, 12:57 am
#41
Join Date: May 2014
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It's not just those pesky people in SE EU, you know.
Mar 5, 2021, 3:17 am
#42
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
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Mar 5, 2021, 5:56 am
#43
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This is a UK specific forum and thread.
Vaccine passports for UK citizens for international travel
If we just talking about an Island-solution (only UK) then what is such a solution good for international travel (e.g. to Spain)?
Yeah, I might be spoiling the party, but a global (or even Europe-wide) digital vaccine passport is nothing more than a dream - a dream for gangsters to seriously make money off this Pandemic.
Be aware there are enough "rich" people who want to travel, but don't want to get vaccinated.
they visited him in his 'tax exile' in Abu Dhabi and I'm told by friends in BA that they've seen a lot of fake Covid tests, one of the reasons why they're trialling that app they've been launching with AA.
Mar 6, 2021, 2:12 am
#44
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Und what do you think will be the benefits of such a vaccine passport?
I am asking because there is already (for many decades) a yellow vaccine paper notebook available, which is generally accepted around the world (e.g. on yellow fever).
If you think that there'll be a global vaccine passport one day - forget it! Such a global vaccine passport is only as strong as it's weakest link. In many country you ll be able to get a virtual vaccination* for a couple of dollars. And I assume some corrupt UK-based GPs will get access to this database.
* no real vaccination, just a checkmark in the database
I am asking because there is already (for many decades) a yellow vaccine paper notebook available, which is generally accepted around the world (e.g. on yellow fever).
If you think that there'll be a global vaccine passport one day - forget it! Such a global vaccine passport is only as strong as it's weakest link. In many country you ll be able to get a virtual vaccination* for a couple of dollars. And I assume some corrupt UK-based GPs will get access to this database.
* no real vaccination, just a checkmark in the database
Be careful of 5G masts though!
Mar 6, 2021, 2:29 am
#45
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kent, UK
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As I see it, you have the choice whether to install an app from developers that do not have a particularly inspiring history of writing (#worldbeating) apps, then granting it access to your most personal and arguably useful/valuable data. Do you 100% need to do that in order to carry on your life and on a handheld device? If not, why take the risk until you have to?
