Oct 15, 2020, 6:45 pm
Local lockdowns in the UK
Jul 16, 2021, 11:13 am
#6526
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,218
International experts say that Boris Johnson’s plan to lift virtually all of England’s pandemic restrictions on Monday is a threat to the world and provides fertile ground for the emergence of vaccine-resistant variants.
At an emergency summit on Friday government advisers in New Zealand, Israel and Italy sounded alarm bells about Downing Street’s policy, while more than 1,200 scientists backed a letter to the Lancet journal warning that the strategy could allow vaccine-resistant variants to develop.
The letter said: “We believe the government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause plans to abandon mitigations on July 19, 2021.”
England’s Covid unlocking is threat to world, say 1,200 scientists | Coronavirus | The Guardian
This is a public health catastrophe in the making. The rest of the world should be denying entry immediately to anyone who has been in the UK, and Scotland and Wales should be closing their borders to England and stick to their own covid roadmaps.
At an emergency summit on Friday government advisers in New Zealand, Israel and Italy sounded alarm bells about Downing Street’s policy, while more than 1,200 scientists backed a letter to the Lancet journal warning that the strategy could allow vaccine-resistant variants to develop.
The letter said: “We believe the government is embarking on a dangerous and unethical experiment, and we call on it to pause plans to abandon mitigations on July 19, 2021.”
England’s Covid unlocking is threat to world, say 1,200 scientists | Coronavirus | The Guardian
This is a public health catastrophe in the making. The rest of the world should be denying entry immediately to anyone who has been in the UK, and Scotland and Wales should be closing their borders to England and stick to their own covid roadmaps.
Having said that, I've a very, very, bad feeling about this. I dearly hope I'm wrong but...
Jul 16, 2021, 11:23 am
#6527
Moderator, Iberia Airlines, Airport Lounges, and Ambassador, British Airways Executive Club
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It's a popular myth, but no, RATs still work just as effectively whether vaccinated or not - it's looking for the virus rather than the vaccine. They aren't the "gold standard" of PCRs, but even PCRs are fallible.
Jul 16, 2021, 1:01 pm
#6528
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bristol
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The Netherlands removed restrictions, saw cases exponentially rise, so the PM apologized for the mistake and reintroduced some restrictions (closing night-clubs).
Spain has had a similar experience, and recently reintroduced restrictions in Barcelona (among other areas) due to the rise of cases among young people.
By contrast, England is the outlier where by removing all restrictions we are deliberately pursuing a herd immunity strategy through infection instead of waiting until everyone that wants the vaccine has had both doses.
HOWEVER, I think there is a strong argument that the end result will be the same. The vast majority of people will end up with antibodies, just young people in the UK will be more likely to get them the hard way.
I think both the statement by the head of the WHO emergencies program that it is “moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity” AND Sajid’s statement that it is “now or never” are valid to certain degrees. In many countries and many topics, politics trumps the health of the nation and COVID is no exception.
Spain has had a similar experience, and recently reintroduced restrictions in Barcelona (among other areas) due to the rise of cases among young people.
By contrast, England is the outlier where by removing all restrictions we are deliberately pursuing a herd immunity strategy through infection instead of waiting until everyone that wants the vaccine has had both doses.
HOWEVER, I think there is a strong argument that the end result will be the same. The vast majority of people will end up with antibodies, just young people in the UK will be more likely to get them the hard way.
I think both the statement by the head of the WHO emergencies program that it is “moral emptiness and epidemiological stupidity” AND Sajid’s statement that it is “now or never” are valid to certain degrees. In many countries and many topics, politics trumps the health of the nation and COVID is no exception.
Jul 16, 2021, 7:02 pm
#6529
Join Date: Oct 2005
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How are these countries so short sighted? It's been plain as day to all of us for weeks that the delta variant will take over Europe and the US, why would countries be opening recently? The UK is slightly different given vaccines and Bojos tolerance for sky high numbers. Not long ago, people I 'predicted' this to would just reply 'lets see' as if it isn't inevitable. Now the US is on a similar path. Currently 70% increases week on week and that number is rising fast, with plenty of states without restriction and a stalled vaccine program.. I want to go to the WSOP (poker) in Vegas in October, and I don't see anyway how it goes ahead. Either delta runs rampant and the hospitals overflow and they bring back restrictions, or they bring them back to control it. Neither end well for Vegas, and people still don't see it. Is there any other realistic outcome?
frankly i can only think that european countries are hoping to vaccinate ahead of the curve.
as for america: HA HA. its a divide trump built in so now its a cluster f of people vaccinated and now everyone else who refuses for a variety of reasons borne from the political atmosphere he created.
Jul 17, 2021, 4:42 am
#6530
Join Date: Jan 2016
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Is tomorrow the last day of this ticker?
Jul 17, 2021, 4:53 am
#6531
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,752
The UK has had a relatively cautious and inflexible plan for reopening - make a change and then wait 5 weeks to see the results. Other countries have different approaches - cases go down so reopen more, cases increasing so add some restrictions - to try and find the right balance, as well as each countries own political constraints. I don't believe the near vertical rise in cases in Netherlands was fully expected (even knowing the Delta variant was around) - reopening clubs and festivals with a negative test doesn't sound like such a big change, but in hindsight was perfect for mass infection events.
Jul 17, 2021, 5:39 am
#6532
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
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Jul 17, 2021, 6:01 am
#6533
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Current restrictions:
- no gatherings indoors of more than 6 or any size if only 2 households
- no gatherings outdoors of more than 30
- businesses not allowed to open include nightclubs, dance halls, discotheques, sexual entertainment venues, hostess bars
- businesses which can open but must serve food and drink at the seat have capacity restrictions, and must ensure customers remain seated whilst consuming; restaurants, including restaurants and dining rooms in hotels or members' clubs, cafes, including workplace canteens, bars, including bars in hotels or members' clubs, public houses, social clubs, and casinos.
- compulsory wearing of face mask on public transport and most indoor public spaces
Jul 17, 2021, 7:34 am
#6534
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Vale of Glamorgan
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I am not sure I agree. Current Step 3 restrictions are not insignificant.
Current restrictions:
- no gatherings indoors of more than 6 or any size if only 2 households
- no gatherings outdoors of more than 30
- businesses not allowed to open include nightclubs, dance halls, discotheques, sexual entertainment venues, hostess bars
- businesses which can open but must serve food and drink at the seat have capacity restrictions, and must ensure customers remain seated whilst consuming; restaurants, including restaurants and dining rooms in hotels or members' clubs, cafes, including workplace canteens, bars, including bars in hotels or members' clubs, public houses, social clubs, and casinos.
- compulsory wearing of face mask on public transport and most indoor public spaces
Current restrictions:
- no gatherings indoors of more than 6 or any size if only 2 households
- no gatherings outdoors of more than 30
- businesses not allowed to open include nightclubs, dance halls, discotheques, sexual entertainment venues, hostess bars
- businesses which can open but must serve food and drink at the seat have capacity restrictions, and must ensure customers remain seated whilst consuming; restaurants, including restaurants and dining rooms in hotels or members' clubs, cafes, including workplace canteens, bars, including bars in hotels or members' clubs, public houses, social clubs, and casinos.
- compulsory wearing of face mask on public transport and most indoor public spaces
As for face coverings... that's pretty much like being asked to wear a seatbelt in a car or on an aircraft and no more restrictive.
Great Britain is not locked down, and hasn't been for months.
Jul 17, 2021, 7:43 am
#6535
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Well this is a long process of easing from lockdown which started as of 29 March. When do you think lockdown finished out of interest?
I think I would be more sympathetic if you argued on the basis of whether restrictions are actually needed rather than they are so insignificant they should remain, the latter is completely contrary to basic principles of a free society.
EDIT: just to add as an example of how COVID has changed people’s sense of what civil liberties are, prior to covid if anyone suggested that the government is going to restrict the number of people who came to your home to 6 I hope you would have said this is a massive restriction on your freedom. As I said, these restrictions are not insignificant, justifiable yes but not insignificant.
I think I would be more sympathetic if you argued on the basis of whether restrictions are actually needed rather than they are so insignificant they should remain, the latter is completely contrary to basic principles of a free society.
EDIT: just to add as an example of how COVID has changed people’s sense of what civil liberties are, prior to covid if anyone suggested that the government is going to restrict the number of people who came to your home to 6 I hope you would have said this is a massive restriction on your freedom. As I said, these restrictions are not insignificant, justifiable yes but not insignificant.
Last edited by KARFA; Jul 17, 2021 at 8:14 am
Jul 17, 2021, 9:04 am
#6537
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There are exemptions for special designated events.
Is your view there shouldn’t be these events, or that there should be more enforcement of the rules, or that everyone is ignoring the rules? If the latter what’s the point in having them? If no one is following them there can be no argument for keeping them.
Is your view there shouldn’t be these events, or that there should be more enforcement of the rules, or that everyone is ignoring the rules? If the latter what’s the point in having them? If no one is following them there can be no argument for keeping them.
Jul 17, 2021, 9:06 am
#6538
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Kent, UK
Programs: M&S Elite+
Posts: 3,649
Daily data:
Cases 54,674 (32,367 last Saturday)
Deaths 41 (34)
Patients admitted 740- (563 on the 6th)
People vaccinated up to and including 15 July 2021:
First dose: 46,227,101
Second dose: 35,732,297
The rolling seven day daily average for cases is now up 40.6% on the previous week and the same measure for deaths is up 47.9%. The rolling 7 day daily average for deaths is 40.6 today.
Cases 54,674 (32,367 last Saturday)
Deaths 41 (34)
Patients admitted 740- (563 on the 6th)
People vaccinated up to and including 15 July 2021:
First dose: 46,227,101
Second dose: 35,732,297
The rolling seven day daily average for cases is now up 40.6% on the previous week and the same measure for deaths is up 47.9%. The rolling 7 day daily average for deaths is 40.6 today.
Jul 17, 2021, 9:21 am
#6539
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,218
I'm sorry but the logic well and truly escapes me. Is Covid going to say 'Fair enough, they're exempt events, I'll abstain from infecting this people'? Last Sunday it was illegal for 31 people to meet. But at the same time it was legal for 100,000 to get pissed in Leicester Square and turn it into a pigsty. Explain the scientific logic in that.
It's been monumentally stupid to allow hundred of thousands of people to descend into London to see the football and we're going to pay the price for it. It's been absolutely stupid not to have had any enforcement whatsoever of the rules, and that's been the case since day dot (e.g. masks. The exemption system is pathetic). And we are paying for that right now.
By the same token, I see very few motorists respecting the speed limits in London, and very few cyclists respecting the red light. Let's just get rid of 'em both, who cares.
By the same token, I see very few motorists respecting the speed limits in London, and very few cyclists respecting the red light. Let's just get rid of 'em both, who cares.
Jul 17, 2021, 10:49 am
#6540
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 963
It's been monumentally stupid to allow hundred of thousands of people to descend into London to see the football and we're going to pay the price for it. It's been absolutely stupid not to have had any enforcement whatsoever of the rules, and that's been the case since day dot (e.g. masks. The exemption system is pathetic). And we are paying for that right now.