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Local lockdowns in the UK

Old Oct 15, 2020, 7:45 pm
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Local lockdowns in the UK

Old Nov 2, 2020, 3:18 am
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Continited
I’m still unclear though, what will happen if I show up next week at Heathrow to take a flight? Is someone going to validate the reason for my travel? Do I need to have any sort of proof or documentation to that end? Or is this more of a self-regulated approach?
We will know in the next few days, not one sentence of the new SI has been written yet. I suspect that it's self enforcement, but it depends a bit on where you are going. Frankfurt is going to be an easy proposition than Tenerife. On the return, if the police get involved off the PLF then they may take matters further. That's speculation on my part.
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 3:20 am
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Sorry I don't understand why the PLF matters if say coming back from Tenerife, does it ask the reason for your trip?
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 3:26 am
  #168  
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Mark Drakeford's gnomic suggestion was that it's better to ask what you should do to protect yourself and others, rather than what you can do, or can get away with, under the emergency legislation.


Not perhaps the most helpful suggestion, and likely born of exasperation after a week parsing Welsh lockdown regulations, delineating exactly which supermarket goods are essential.
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 3:35 am
  #169  
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Originally Posted by paulaf
Sorry I don't understand why the PLF matters if say coming back from Tenerife, does it ask the reason for your trip?
It's a bit of an obvious paper trail isn't it? You do have to give a reason why you are exempt from self isolation. You enter into the UK Border area, fewer people there due to the reduced number of travellers,, BF officer asks how long you were in TFS, purpose of trip, and they are authorised to dole out Fixed Penaly Notices. Speculation here, since it depends on the SI wording.
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 4:11 am
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK
Mark Drakeford's gnomic suggestion was that it's better to ask what you should do to protect yourself and others, rather than what you can do, or can get away with, under the emergency legislation.


Not perhaps the most helpful suggestion, and likely born of exasperation after a week parsing Welsh lockdown regulations, delineating exactly which supermarket goods are essential.
Don't mention that Welsh gnome to me he makes my blood boil.
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 4:20 am
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
It's a bit of an obvious paper trail isn't it? You do have to give a reason why you are exempt from self isolation. You enter into the UK Border area, fewer people there due to the reduced number of travellers,, BF officer asks how long you were in TFS, purpose of trip, and they are authorised to dole out Fixed Penaly Notices. Speculation here, since it depends on the SI wording.
I read somewhere yesterday the the draft bill has to go through as it stands now ie no leisure travel and it cannot be amended, is that factually correct?
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 4:34 am
  #172  
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Originally Posted by paulaf
I read somewhere yesterday the the draft bill has to go through as it stands now ie no leisure travel and it cannot be amended, is that factually correct?
The SI process is generally all or nothing, what parliamentarians call an "up or down" vote. So yes, that's correct in a narrow sense. However a more complex answer is that if MPs or ministers (representing different aspects of the UK economy and society) lobby hard enough, then the wording can be changed behind the scenes. In this specific case I don't think this will happen, since the ban on leisure travel is not contentious from what I can see, apart from some libertarian minded MPs, so I am fairly certain that will happen. But we are in unchartered waters, the original lockdown - which had a greater extent in terms of education, went through without any partliamentary scrutiny at all, ahead of it happening. And previous SIs have tended to use wording such as "reasonable excuse" which is open to some interpretation. But if you are asking me "will leisure travel be banned", the answer is definitely yes, what remains open to question is how it will be enforced.
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 5:52 am
  #173  
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Originally Posted by corporate-wage-slave
There were apparently a few people denied entry to the UK since they were deemed not to be going along with the restrictions. The case I recall was an American woman who wanted to assist her daughter after childbirth, which the Border Force officer couldn't reconcile with the need to keep households apart (there may well have been more to this, of course). In essence if you are UK resident you can't travel internationally other than for work (and that includes those who are not UK citizens but are UK residents); for those visiting they have to comply with stay-at-home guidelines. For those transferring, overnight stays may now be tricky until 2 December.
Hasn't child care and assisting the vulnerable (arguably a woman around time of birth is) always been an exception?
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 5:55 am
  #174  
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Originally Posted by asdf098
The gov.uk page seems to have been updated within the past 6-12 hours to include the following text. This seems consistent with the BBC quote and suggests there isn't a complete ban on foreign arrivals into the country. Still plenty of uncertainty (such as whether any trips would lead to outright denial of entry, and whether a return home by a foreign national would be allowed) but good to see more official details being released...
If they allow foreign nationals to arrive, it would seem very odd/unreasonable to ban them from leaving the country, no?
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 6:08 am
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Originally Posted by KSVVZ2015
If they allow foreign nationals to arrive, it would seem very odd/unreasonable to ban them from leaving the country, no?
The UK government cannot ban anyone from leaving the country, and they never said that. It is the media saying that. You just need a 'legal reason' to leave the country. If you look at the GOV UK national restrictions part, you make your own legal reason. Don't forget, many people have family abroad, so if there is a need to see them for various reasons, then voila out you go depending on whether that country lets you in, but in the EU at least there are no restrictions on UK nationals entering their country during their lockdowns right now.

Again UK government using selective wording "If you do need to travel abroad", and the FCO even to countries not on travel corridor lists say "advise against all but essential travel", well essential travel can mean a whole host of things; family emergency, work needs, etc etc.

If you are a UK national with no family or ties in another country and just want to party in Spain, well then yeah probably would be a problem, but a UK national with a foreign residence that has a family member in need of you? Well who's going to stop you leaving and what right do they have?


I personally do not plan on going abroad until December 2, but if my parents need me, then you can be absolutely sure I will be doing so short of them physically restraining me at the departure gate! My reason? I live alone in a single adult household, and I am legally entitled to join my support bubble.

Also you need to remember there are millions of foreign nationals in the UK with either a foreign passport or resident permit, even if they have a UK one. Unless the UK does an Australia, good luck stopping them from leaving.

My main worry about the lockdown if I need to travel abroad would be the likely many cancelled flights.



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Old Nov 2, 2020, 6:12 am
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Originally Posted by ahmetdouas
The UK government cannot ban anyone from leaving the country, and they never said that. It is the media saying that. You just need a 'legal reason' to leave the country. If you look at the GOV UK national restrictions part, you make your own legal reason. Don't forget, many people have family abroad, so if there is a need to see them for various reasons, then voila out you go depending on whether that country lets you in, but in the EU at least there are no restrictions on UK nationals entering their country during their lockdowns right now.

I personally do not plan on going abroad until December 2, but if my parents need me, then you can be absolutely sure I will be doing so short of them physically restraining me at the departure gate! My reason? I live alone in a single adult household, and I am legally entitled to join my support bubble.

Also you need to remember there are millions of foreign nationals in the UK with either a foreign passport or resident permit, even if they have a UK one. Unless the UK does an Australia, good luck stopping them from leaving.

My main worry about the lockdown if I need to travel abroad would be the likely many cancelled flights.



The way I am feeling at the moment I would happily pay a fine upon return! Be interesting to see in the end what proof is needed to demonstrate "for work", an email confirming a meeting maybe?
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 6:15 am
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Originally Posted by paulaf
The way I am feeling at the moment I would happily pay a fine upon return! Be interesting to see in the end what proof is needed to demonstrate "for work", an email confirming a meeting maybe?
It won't go there, they are just trying to discourage you from travelling. The UK doesn't even have passport control when you leave the country. Unless they have Police Officers/UKBF in Heathrow personally interrogating every departure abroad, then I can't see this being enforceable. I would say it looks more like a 'strong recommendation', like it was in March/April/May when you could still technically fly abroad, even during lockdown and there were skeleton flights with skeleton people leaving (e.g. my European student friends, or many of my European friends who decided to work from home from their parent's house in Europe).

In fact at a pub I was at in a 'European' part of town (South Kensington) last night, many were debating whether they should go to work at their parents house abroad during this period of lockdown.
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 6:16 am
  #178  
 
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"We will know in the next few days, not one sentence of the new SI has been written yet"
Thanks for confirming that. I have been searching high and low this morning for the SI text, and now I understand why I haven't found it. Do we have any indication when we'll see the SI text? Is it not until after the parliamentary vote?
I recall that in the first lockdown there were discrepancies (some significant) between what came out of politicians mouths (and their twitter feeds) and what the actual text in the SI said...
This isn't me trying to sneak away for a crafty holiday. It's me trying to understand whether I can visit my 93 year old father-in-law, who lives in a care home 1,000km away.
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 6:20 am
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I am actually quite curious on how Wales is opening on November 9 while England is in lockdown, that will be an interesting contrast, I wonder what measures will be taken to stop people going into Wales for a quick shop or a pint if bars should be open, Police at the 'borders'?
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Old Nov 2, 2020, 6:22 am
  #180  
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Originally Posted by rcspeirs
Do we have any indication when we'll see the SI text?
tomorrow
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