Duty Free Allowance - per person or per family?

Closed Thread Subscribe

Thread Tools

Search this Thread

Nov 22, 2018, 1:51 pm

#16

WorldLux

Join Date: Sep 2015

Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold

Posts: 8,402

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kettering Northants QC

You only circumstance I can see HMRC wanting to apply this rule (in the way inferred by dulciuswhateverious impies) is where a group of independent travelers conspire to illegally import excess duty free products by claiming to be travelling in a group. I.e. A,B C, D each put 4 litres of vodka in their cases - on going through Duty Free A gets stopped, B,C and D continue and are on their way. A claims he is carrying the Vodka for A, B, C and D.

For a family, it would be complete nonsense. My wife and I pack our cases together and mix stuff across both cases to avoid the risk of having no clothing if one case goes missing. We check in together and have the same travel plans - no issue.

Which is NOT the case. The OP precisely asks if it's okay when travelling with his partner, i.e. as together as a family.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

People always seem to assume that what can go wrong, won't go wrong. Right up until they discover that what can go wrong, may indeed go wrong.

Why should it go wrong? Contrary to what you keep saying, it is perfectly accepted by HMRC to put goods belonging to multiple passengers into a single suitcase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

The phrase, 'transport them yourself' is NOT ambiguous. It means that you carry(transport) your personal allowance, yourself. That on any given day, the vast majority of COs choose to define it in one way vs. another, does not mean on any other given day they cannot choose to define it 'as read'. By taking it 'as read' you eliminate the possibility of it being a problem.

It's not an ambiguous phrase, which is why I don't understand why you have such difficulties understanding it. "Transport [the goods] yourself" merely indicates that the goods, that you want to import within your allowances, have to be accompanied by your travel party. It distinguishes goods eligible for duty-free import from mere international shipments, which are always subject to taxes and/or duties.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

'You can't combine with other people' is the other specific term. Do you see anything that says that does not apply to a family member? I don't. Take it 'as read' avoids any possible hassle over 'who bought and owns this bottle?'

I'd like to point out that you are deliberately leaving out part of the quote from the website that you were quoting. Here is the full quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gove

You can’t combine allowances with other people to bring in more than your individual allowance.

The operating word is allowances. You can't combine allowances.It is however perfectly acceptable to put goods of several passengers in your travel party into a single suitcase. That does not constitute combining allowances.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

CO says, 'Got separate receipts for the two bottles, one your receipt, one your spouse's receipt sir? No, so you bought both is that right sir? So they are both yours. You are only allowed one. what about these cigarettes sir? Does your spouse smoke this brand sir? And back to the whiskey, does your spouse drink whiskey sir? Is this or is it not for your spouse's personal use sir? It must be for your spouse's personal use, not your use sir if she is going to say it is her personal duty free allowance sir. So both bottles are for your use only sir.'

1) You do realise that import of whiskey bottles or smokes is by volume, not value? It's irrelevant how much they cost and HMRC only needs to look at the label to see whether you're within your allowance.
2) There's no requirement to have a separate receipt for each passenger. In fact, you don't even have to have a receipt. It facilitates things for you as HMRC will not have to guess the value of a good, but there's no obligation whatsoever to present a receipt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

If a CO decides to give you grief simply because s/he doesn't like the way you look, they will have no problem whatsoever in doing so when YOU have more than your allowance in YOUR suitcase. When you walk through that GREEN path, you are at their mercy.

Again, HMRC does not operate as you describe. Carrying 2 litres of spirit (within the individual allowances) in a single suitcase is perfectly fine. The CO may or may not use the margins to prosecute/not prosecute a passenger depending on his mood, but he won't be able to behave illegally (What you are describing multiple times would be illegal). Finally, even if you use the green path and HMRC stops you, you won't be at their mercy. They'll probably start asking questions. It's only when you start lying at that point that you'll be in hot waters. If you answer truthfully, the worst case scenario is that you pay due taxes/duties.

OT: I implore you not to give advice if you are unfamiliar with the topic. Despite moderator intervention (in this very thread), you continue to insist on providing incorrect information to a precise question.

Nov 22, 2018, 2:10 pm

#17

Kettering Northants QC

Join Date: Feb 2005

Location: Home

Programs: Virgin FC, Qantas, Golden Circle, Sofitel, Hyatt, Starwood, Nectar, and my Tesco Club Card

Posts: 1,770

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

People always seem to assume that what can go wrong, won't go wrong. Right up until they discover that what can go wrong, may indeed go wrong. On any given day how a Customs Officer chooses to deal with someone is pretty much an open book. It the CO got out of bed on the wrong side that day, they can and do sometimes choose to interpret their rules as they please.

No they can't

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

The phrase, 'transport them yourself' is NOT ambiguous. It means that you carry(transport) your personal allowance, yourself..

Can you cite the legal precedence for this interpretation? Two people pushing a trolley through customs - who is doing the transporting - your OED interpretation is too simplistic. At what moment does the transport start and end? what if I start pushing the trolley and then my spouse takes over?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

'You can't combine with other people' is the other specific term. Do you see anything that says that does not apply to a family member?

You're not referring to the law just simplified .gov guidance which obviously is sometimes overly simplified Look at the Law and relevant case law.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

'Got separate receipts for the two bottles, one your receipt, one your spouse's receipt sir? No, so you bought both is that right sir? So they are both yours. You are only allowed one. what about these cigarettes sir? Does your spouse smoke this brand sir? And back to the whiskey, does your spouse drink whiskey sir? Is this or is it not for your spouse's personal use sir? It must be for your spouse's personal use, not your use sir if she is going to say it is her personal duty free allowance sir. So both bottles are for your use only sir.'

Is my wife mute? will they only talk to the male - idiotic assumption. Paid for on one card - yes a card issued to both my wife and I - paid from a joint bank account There is another flaw in your logic here - you entitled to import duty free with the intention of making the item a gift - so a simple explanation why there might be 2 boxes of the same brand - one is for personal use, the other (on your spouse's allowance) will be a gift to someone of their deciding.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis

If a CO decides to give you grief simply because s/he doesn't like the way you look, they will have no problem whatsoever in doing so when YOU have more than your allowance in YOUR suitcase. When you walk through that GREEN path, you are at their mercy. But if someone can provide a link that shows family members can combine their allowances, I will be more than happy to read it. Every single reference I can find says you cannot combine and nowhere can I find a reference that says a family member is an exception to not combining with another person. That Customs may be lax in how they interpret that doesn't mean they cannot interpret it 'as read' if they choose to do so. Or as the saying goes, 'past performance is no guarantee of future results.'

How about providing the link to LAW that you are relying on in your argument. The 1979 Act (as amended) seems to require an intent to defraud her Majesty of the necessary Duty. Nothing to do with carrying suitcases or how you pack them, it doesn't even define "transport". 2 people travelling together who put their individual Duty Free allowance in the same case - where's the necessary Mens Rea? As for Customs Officers having bad days and choosing to take matters into their own hands - this is paranoid nonsense. The officers are professional and have more than enough work to do without giving people unnecessary hassle about how they've chosen to pack their Duty Free. They work to Codes of Practice and Official Notes. There is also a robust complaints procedure. Independent of this, should the matter go to court they still have to satisfy a court that they have applied the necessary code for Crown Prosecutors, and their case passes the required Evidential and Public Interest Test to the appropriate standard.

Scots_Al and der_saeufer like this.

Last edited by Kettering Northants QC; Nov 22, 2018 at 3:36 pm