der_saeufer

If your goal is simply to be able to buy stuff, the order of the CVM list doesn't really matter. In countries where online PIN always works, a B of A credit card or nearly any U.S. debit card works in unattended kiosks just the same as a PIN-priority card. AFAIK all of the American PIN-priority cards also support offline PIN, but those aren't necessarily linked--USAA's cards support offline PIN but are all signature-priority now. The only advantage you get from PIN-priority is that you don't have to go searching for a pen to sign the slip at the grocery store.

The only time this has ever been an issue for me is with merchants that don't get a lot of American/Asian visitors and have clerks that aren't experts at operating their POS system. A little food shop near me has an odd POS implementation and I've had to show a couple new clerks where to push the "OK" button so it'll spit out a signature slip (otherwise the terminal will sit there and stare at you all night). Most POS systems just print the second slip automatically.

<rant>If B of A can support online PIN with no hassle or cost to the consumer, why can't the other big American card issuers do it? Is it so much to ask to be able to buy train tickets from vending machines with my CSR that brags about its triple points for travel?!</rant>

tmiw

Oh I'm definitely aware of all that. It just looked like people were thinking that a full on PIN preferring card was an absolute must so I wanted to clarify.

It's likely no hassle to cardholders because online PIN is last on the CVM list. I don't know what it'd be like if it were further up.

TWA884

Barclays, not Bank of America.

Badenoch

I wondered about your buskers post until I saw one with a card machine in the Picadilly tube station last week. £2 minimum.

der_saeufer

Yep, that's what I mean--the 90% of cardholders who never leave the US aren't affected by it at all, but if you do need a working PIN, it's there for you with a quick visit to online banking. USAA cards are similar with the addition of offline PIN as well, but USAA's customer base has more need for PIN support than B of A's.

B of A does it too--I picked them because they're a much larger outfit in the US than Barclays... they very quietly added online PIN support to their cards a couple years back. You set the PIN online the same way you used to set a cash advance PIN, though IIRC it says "cash advances and some purchases" or something like that. I've used it over here and it does work in kiosks and gas pumps that won't accept my Chase cards.

TWA884

Sorry, I misread your post to which I was replying. Barclays US issued cards support offline PIN, BofA does not.

I will not use an online PIN at a third party POS terminal. Those are universal for US debit cards, however, there have been too many security breaches where PINs were stolen from the processors.

BigFlyer

• While there is a limit on the amount of a contactless card transaction, the limit is either higher or non-existent with Apple or Android Pay. The reason for this (I assume) is that there is no security for the use of a contactless card - if I steal your wallet, I can use the card contactelssly all I want until it is reported missing. Android and Apple Pay require a PIN be entered on the phone or a fingerprint, so it is much more secure than a contactless card.
• While chip and signature works everywhere, better to use a contactless card or Apple/Android pay. It is faster and you won't hold up the line.
• As mentioned, the Barclays issued cards will allow usage of a PIN at terminals that require PINs. I have and recommend the Uber card - no annual fee, no foreign charge surcharge, 4% back on restaurants, 3% on hotels and airfare, 2% for online purchases, 1% for everything else. The travel blogs don't push it because presumably they do not get a commission for selling it. Not contactless, but of course works with Apple/Android Pay.

bchandler02

No issues with Chip and sign cards. Use my Citi AA Exec card in London all the time.

One tip - if you have a smart watch that can use Apple/Samsung/Google pay with your card, do it. That allows you to use tap payments even if your physical card doesn't support it - really speeds things up. I use Samsung Pay via my watch and it works great.

snic

If you want a chip-and-PIN card that prioritizes PIN (and will therefore work in any European vending machine), get the FirstTech Credit Union MasterCard. The requirements for becoming a member are trivial and basically anyone can join.

BigFlyer

The US Barclay cards are not PIN priority - but they will allow PIN entry when it is required to complete a purchase, e.g., train ticket machines in Europe.

The Uber card from Barclays is no annual fee.

RichardInSF

Once or twice, but not recently, a chip-and-pin ticket vending machine demanded a PIN, It took "0000." Lately, they just skip the PIN step entirely -- the tube ticket vending machines do that.

AONwheels

It shows up as a point of sale terminal charge. Some debit cards have a foreign transaction fee associated with that. For example, Fidelity Gold Check Card (VISA debit) charges 1% foreign transaction fee in that case, even though it charges 0% at an ATM. The Schwab debit card (VISA) charges 0% foreign transaction fee whether used at an ATM or a point of sale such as a kiosk. Many US ATM/debit cards charge quite high foreign transaction fees both at ATMs and at point of sale terminals.

tmiw

If one truly needs PIN preference, I'm sure joining one of the CUs offering it and then applying for the card afterward is worthwhile effort.

As it is, I'm not sure even that level of effort is justifiable solely for UK travel considering the level of contactless/mobile payment adoption in the UK and the fact that there are cards that do support PIN as a backup (such as Barclays') in the event that an unattended terminal a) doesn't have contactless and b) doesn't accept cards without PIN. And I say this as someone with several PIN preferring cards.

BTW, Chase Sapphire Reserve is now available with contactless support, though of course you'll be limited to £30 unless you use it via Apple or Google Pay. And based on what I was able to read off the card, it should work on the Underground in lieu of an Oyster card too. ^