bradleykhofmann

My two cents: I was in Scotland in April and used my credit card extensively without pin enabled. Everyone seemed to know what to do and the terminal spit out a receipt with a signature line. The merchant didn't need to do anything differently. I even used it off the beaten path where my USA English was "wee bit difficult" to understand. I was also able to pick up prepaid train tickets from kiosks just fine but not purchase. That has been my only issue.

tmiw

Also, keep in mind that the US is hardly the only country that's predominantly chip and signature. Mexico and a fair number of Asian countries use it too, for instance. That said, it's probably the largest economy that does (and one of the latest to adopt chip in the first place), meaning that some merchants may not have realized they had issues with their unattended terminals until recently. I imagine this thread may have gone differently had it been posted back in 2015.

FlyingHighlander

Pretty soon there wont even be a signature panel on the back of cards. Mastercard in particular is currently pushing for this, with a small portion of cards already without it.

der_saeufer

Same here, but a visiting friend decided to try his debit card before kicking the kiosk or making me pay and it worked, which led me to dig out my American debit cards and cardpeek them. It seems that the standard MO for American Visa/MC debit is to support online PIN, so they should work pretty much anywhere that takes credit--including any UK/Irish kiosks that don't want to run no CVM on American chip-and-sign cards.

JBord

Although there's a spot for it, there hasn't been a signature on the back of any of my cards for many years. No one cares. It's a useless relic.

I wonder if the machines are actually running the card as credit? And either way, I wonder if there's a foreign transaction fee on debit card transactions. I have to believe that most US bank-issued cards would have a fee. Of my 4 credit cards, I only have one that has no foreign transaction fees.

tmiw

List of debit cards that don't have a FTF. And yes, they do run as "credit" overseas as the networks that are used when running as "debit" are US-only.

weegraeme

I'm in Australia. Our Chip and Pin cards are configured differently to UK Chip and Pin cards.
We use chip and pin exclusively here, but on several trips to UK, over several years, I've found that I have to insert my card into the slot in the terminal. The terminal prints out a signature slip and I'm then asked to sign. Contactless payments go through just fine.

dulciusexasperis

As I have said, the problems are not as common as they were 10 years ago but that does not mean they don't exist sometimes or that anecdotal evidence someone such as yourself gives bradleykhofmann, means someone else will not run into an issue. Saying you had no problems doesn't really mean much at all. The question is could someone else run into a problem, yes or no?

For example, let's suppose you landed at Edinburgh Airport on your visit to Scotland. You exited the terminal and walk the 100 yards or so to the new Edinburgh Tram station. You need a ticket. No problem the ticket vending machine is right there and all you have to do is put in your credit card and punch in your PIN number. Oops, no PIN number? Ummmm OK, contactless works too. No contactless? Oops. OK, got a debit card that is PIN enabled? Thank goodness, you can get a ticket with it.
https://www.edinburghairport.com/transport-links/trams

As you yourself said, you could not purchase train tickets, only pick-up prepaid tickets. What if you decided to take a train for which you hadn't a pre-paid ticket? You just don't go or you go through whatever hassle you would have to go through to make the purchase? On a recent visit to Scotland of my own, we were staying in a small town with a lovely little train station. A 5 minute walk from our hotel and we were on the platform. Ticket to Edinburgh form the ticket machine as the station is in fact un-manned. Oops, PIN only. OK, no problem, you can buy a ticket on the train, PIN or contactless, umm no, no signature availability sorry.

The point is bradleykhofmann, the ONLY way to be sure of having NO issues is to have a real Chip and PIN card. Whether someone encounters no real problems or only a small hassle or two is not the point. The point is that you MAY have a hassle to deal with whereas someone with a Chip and PIN card will never have one. Why would you settle for less?

Again, I can understand someone who vacations internationally once a year saying getting a proper Chip and PIN card in the USA is not the worth the hassle of doing that to avoid the potential hassle of an issue when travelling on their annual vacation. But the same thinking doesn't really work for someone who travels internationally more often. All the anecdotal stories that anyone can offer will not change that reality.

My preference is to be able to pay in WHATEVER way is easiest, not have to find a 'workaround'. I want to be able to PIN, contactless, signature, ApplePay, etc. Whatever way the vendor prefers me to pay is fine by me.

dulciusexasperis

Yes der_saeufer, a PIN enabled debit card will work just fine if someone thinks to use it. There's that word 'think' again. LOL But it still isn't a reason for US banks not issuing Chip and PIN credit cards is it.

The funny thing is that if you do some reading on why they don't want to issue PIN credit cards, a common statement is that their customers don't want to have to remember a PIN number. The implication of course is also that their customers aren't capable of remembering a 4 digit PIN number which is pretty insulting really. But what I don't understand is why the same argument is not used with Debit Cards? They all have PIN. I guess no one ever uses their debit card in the USA as they can't remember their PIN. So the US traveller by that logic when faced with a machine that would take their debit card with a PIN is still stuck since they don't remember their PIN.

The bottom line really is that US banks don't want to go to PIN because it will cost them money and their customers are letting them get away with it because they aren't smart enough to say, give us a PIN like everywhere else or I will stop banking with you.

tmiw

Contactless isn't really considered a "workaround" if that's what everyone's moving to. Besides, many Americans already have it in the form of a mobile phone--they just need to add their cards before leaving. Plus at least one major bank is finally going to start including it on cards themselves.

If you've followed the EMV threads at all, you'd have noticed that it's not as though there are many options for PIN preference. Following through with that threat really means "no longer having a credit card" if you are unable to meet the requirements of the few credit unions that offer it. As mentioned previously, the situation isn't bad enough to warrant that kind of response.

It's slightly better for debit cards but almost none of them have offline PIN, which means inserting would likely result in the same behavior that @weegraeme mentioned above. Not to mention that if the terminal can't go online at all it's very possible that no US cards would work even if PIN is preferred, as the US has a zero floor limit and little to no infrastructure for offline chip-authorized transactions. Or any real desire to implement such--other than for the narrow transit use case--as it can cause user experience issues. (Note people in the UK complaining about contactless not deducting out of their bank accounts right away, for example.)

GregWTravels

This is also an argument to never arrive somewhere without local hard currency. As someone who arrived in Belize to find my debit and both credit cards blocked, I was only saved by being able to buy a telephone card to call my bank, which required me to exchange pounds to Belize to dollars. Luckily I had some spare pounds in my pocket.

Contactless, Chip and pin, Chip and sign, no chip and sign....

Ultimately you should always have a back up... and ideally a back up to the back up.

LAX

That's interesting. I guess I will be fine as long as the terminals are equipped to take a chip & sign credit card. I am not overlying concerned about having (or the lack of) chip & pin cards, but just want to be as prepared in advance as I can to minimize potential hassles while overseas.

LAX

wxman22

This is it exactly. I have spoken to various banks over time and I always get that same lame excuse.

As others have stated, if you go do the tourist thing, you probably won't have any issues. Once you get off the tourist track though, it get's harder without Chip & Pin.
I rent a car every time since I am going to small towns. Parking lots on the continent, train stations, etc it's a problem with our cards.

tmiw

How much of that would be helped with something like a card from Barclays (which has a backup PIN that only gets used if necessary) vs. a card that always requires one for most/all transactions? I'm still not convinced that the latter is truly necessary* but I can maybe see the former for at least a few more years--especially if one has concerns about contactless or otherwise doesn't really want to use a phone to pay for stuff.

In any case, it's a distinction that people should keep in mind. I think people are assuming that all cards with a PIN are the same when they aren't exactly so.

* Though I will admit that it's nice to have. I'm not exactly going to run out and cancel my Diners Club card, for instance, especially since it happens to have contactless as well.

TWA884

In all my travels, mostly Europe, I have yet to come across a terminal that will not print a receipt for signature when I use one of my chip & sign cards (Chase, Citi, BofA). Even when using my Barclays AAdvantage Aviator card, which has chip & pin capabilities for use in automated kiosks, a signature slip is automatically printed when used at stores, restaurants, hotels and other merchants.