Refused Entry in UK via Brussels Eurostar...how does this affect future travel?
Feb 15, 2018, 12:43 pm
#16
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Home
Programs: Virgin FC, Qantas, Golden Circle, Sofitel, Hyatt, Starwood, Nectar, and my Tesco Club Card
Posts: 1,770
Counselling someone in the commission of an offence is not a great idea
Feb 15, 2018, 1:15 pm
#17
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: Free Agent
Posts: 1,937
Welcome to FT, UKGrad! While Flyertalk is an excellent forum for travel information, obtaining immigration advice here is tantamount to listening to your student advisor again. Hire a professional immigration lawyer and do things the right (read: legal) way.
Feb 15, 2018, 6:37 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,194
It's been 10 days since the OP posted and I don't see them posting again.
Feb 17, 2018, 9:52 am
#19
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Argentina
Posts: 40,210
My wife is a Spanish Vice Consul and has to deal with people every week who have been given wrong information by 'well meaning' others. Some of the info may have been relevant a couple of years ago but is either out of date or only applicable to certain individuals.
Best to go and seek answers from those you know are qualified to offer advice.
Best to go and seek answers from those you know are qualified to offer advice.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:25 pm
#20
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23
Hi again all, I realize it has been a while since I originally started this thread so I apologize for the delay in responding. I thank you and appreciate all the feedback and responses given to my initial post. Also please forgive me for my newbie posting status and not having figured out how to reply with multiple quotes (there might be a small chain of replies going forward).
As a clarification, my main question was indeed regarding whether it would be okay to return to non-UK European countries (Schengen area) as a tourist. It was an option I was considering as an alternative meeting point for my gf and me, though I have since partially been able to sort the majority of my most important belongings and have also been briefly reunited with her as she visited California last month. We still would like to make plans to see parts of Europe together in the future and I am still unsure whether I would be flagged by those countries--I remember on my KEF connection back to LAX, I was concerned when the officer looked at the passport pages and undoubtedly saw the crosses on the Brussels train stamps and I don't know what conclusion she came to before letting me through. I haven't spoken to any immigration experts and I do understand that any well-intended information posted here shouldn't be treated as official...it did after all bite me in the bum the last time I took unofficial advice.
As a clarification, my main question was indeed regarding whether it would be okay to return to non-UK European countries (Schengen area) as a tourist. It was an option I was considering as an alternative meeting point for my gf and me, though I have since partially been able to sort the majority of my most important belongings and have also been briefly reunited with her as she visited California last month. We still would like to make plans to see parts of Europe together in the future and I am still unsure whether I would be flagged by those countries--I remember on my KEF connection back to LAX, I was concerned when the officer looked at the passport pages and undoubtedly saw the crosses on the Brussels train stamps and I don't know what conclusion she came to before letting me through. I haven't spoken to any immigration experts and I do understand that any well-intended information posted here shouldn't be treated as official...it did after all bite me in the bum the last time I took unofficial advice.
Last edited by UKGrad; Jun 21, 2018 at 8:26 pm Reason: grammatical corrections
Jun 21, 2018, 8:36 pm
#21
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23
There have been a spectrum of responses from family and friends about the situation--all sympathetic--though friends in the US tend to think there were other underlying reasons that I have repeatedly dismissed while friends in the UK remind me that the job was just being done as it should (fair enough). It's still difficult to reflect on because while I do understand the reasoning, the one bit that still stings is when I was called back in for the final decision by the officer who initially questioned me, he winked as I entered the room. At first I thought it was reassurance, but afterwards I realised he was probably, subtly taking the piss.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:47 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,746
Hi again all, I realize it has been a while since I originally started this thread so I apologize for the delay in responding. I thank you and appreciate all the feedback and responses given to my initial post. Also please forgive me for my newbie posting status and not having figured out how to reply with multiple quotes (there might be a small chain of replies going forward).
As a clarification, my main question was indeed regarding whether it would be okay to return to non-UK European countries (Schengen area) as a tourist. It was an option I was considering as an alternative meeting point for my gf and me, though I have since partially been able to sort the majority of my most important belongings and have also been briefly reunited with her as she visited California last month. We still would like to make plans to see parts of Europe together in the future and I am still unsure whether I would be flagged by those countries--I remember on my KEF connection back to LAX, I was concerned when the officer looked at the passport pages and undoubtedly saw the crosses on the Brussels train stamps and I don't know what conclusion she came to before letting me through. I haven't spoken to any immigration experts and I do understand that any well-intended information posted here shouldn't be treated as official...it did after all bite me in the bum the last time I took unofficial advice.
As a clarification, my main question was indeed regarding whether it would be okay to return to non-UK European countries (Schengen area) as a tourist. It was an option I was considering as an alternative meeting point for my gf and me, though I have since partially been able to sort the majority of my most important belongings and have also been briefly reunited with her as she visited California last month. We still would like to make plans to see parts of Europe together in the future and I am still unsure whether I would be flagged by those countries--I remember on my KEF connection back to LAX, I was concerned when the officer looked at the passport pages and undoubtedly saw the crosses on the Brussels train stamps and I don't know what conclusion she came to before letting me through. I haven't spoken to any immigration experts and I do understand that any well-intended information posted here shouldn't be treated as official...it did after all bite me in the bum the last time I took unofficial advice.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:54 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23
UKGrad, welcome to FT, and on a positive note many congratulations on completing your Masters.
The bad news, as others have said, is that you pretty much managed to raise every red flag going. It’s not entirely surprising you were refused, and whoever advised you at the University should also be taking a look at themselves - this was never going to end well.
That said, your future prospects are much, much better - the UK will need skilled graduates, and certainly those with Masters, from all over the world in the years to come. Establish a presence at home, perhaps see if you can still get the sponsored Tier 2 visa in time, or a job in the US, and build from there. There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t both travel to and work throughout Europe, including the UK, at some point in the future.
As for getting your possessions back, at least you still have close friends and a girlfriend that can help with that - even if it means shipping them to you as cargo. You could well have been in a far worse position, that’s for sure.
I wish you the very best of luck - it’s sounds like you’re due some - and I hope you’ll continue to contribute here as your own experience of travel grows and prospers.
The bad news, as others have said, is that you pretty much managed to raise every red flag going. It’s not entirely surprising you were refused, and whoever advised you at the University should also be taking a look at themselves - this was never going to end well.
That said, your future prospects are much, much better - the UK will need skilled graduates, and certainly those with Masters, from all over the world in the years to come. Establish a presence at home, perhaps see if you can still get the sponsored Tier 2 visa in time, or a job in the US, and build from there. There is absolutely no reason why you shouldn’t both travel to and work throughout Europe, including the UK, at some point in the future.
As for getting your possessions back, at least you still have close friends and a girlfriend that can help with that - even if it means shipping them to you as cargo. You could well have been in a far worse position, that’s for sure.
I wish you the very best of luck - it’s sounds like you’re due some - and I hope you’ll continue to contribute here as your own experience of travel grows and prospers.
To avoid going off-topic, I will say that I am due to return next month for graduation (only occurs once a year so I was invited to this July's ceremony). I understand that I will need to provide documents that show my visit is legitimate: letter of degree conferment, confirmation of graduation attendance, hotel bookings for the week, and of course a return ticket. I expect scrutiny and still haven't decided whether I am flying directly into LHR or if perhaps I should fly into NWI, meaning a likely connection in AMS.
Jun 21, 2018, 8:58 pm
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23
My point is, I don't believe that is true. If he honestly and lawfully enters Ireland, and enters the UK from there, as a US citizen not requiring a visa, and not having any intention other than tourism etc for the permitted time, and has arranged travel to return home within that time, then he is lawfully in the UK. If he is found in the UK during this time, he is found to be lawfully there. That is my understanding from the rules I quoted above. (As I say, happy to be corrected if I have misread them, but you don't appear to be saying I have.)
Again that is advice for peace of mind and not risking being denied entry, which I agree with, However that is different to advice on what is or isn't an unlawful entry.
Again that is advice for peace of mind and not risking being denied entry, which I agree with, However that is different to advice on what is or isn't an unlawful entry.
Jun 21, 2018, 9:05 pm
#25
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,746
I remember that before coming to the UK on my student visa, I was specifically instructed not to enter Ireland before entering the UK. I would not take that chance and would never try to sneak in intentionally nor incidentally, however desperate I am to be able to return to the UK.
When you enter with a student visa issued by the UK, you must by law present yourself to the UK Border Force when entering the country. If you come through Ireland you cannot meet this requirement because you will not come into contact with the UK Border Force.
On the other hand, it is perfectly permissible for a tourist from the US to enter Ireland and then the UK from Ireland.
Jun 21, 2018, 9:08 pm
#26
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23
As far as people here saying get competent advice - you are not going to get better advice than you get here. This is not a legal question about any country's laws - it is a question about whether your name has made it into some sort of list that would flag you to Schengen border officials. No one can tell you that with any degree of authority if you are on such a list or not. I would suspect that even if you are on a list if you can show a bank statement with money and you have a round-trip ticket you will get in.
Jun 21, 2018, 9:12 pm
#27
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Southern California
Posts: 23
They are two very different things.
When you enter with a student visa issued by the UK, you must by law present yourself to the UK Border Force when entering the country. If you come through Ireland you cannot meet this requirement because you will not come into contact with the UK Border Force.
On the other hand, it is perfectly permissible for a tourist from the US to enter Ireland and then the UK from Ireland.
When you enter with a student visa issued by the UK, you must by law present yourself to the UK Border Force when entering the country. If you come through Ireland you cannot meet this requirement because you will not come into contact with the UK Border Force.
On the other hand, it is perfectly permissible for a tourist from the US to enter Ireland and then the UK from Ireland.
Jun 21, 2018, 9:13 pm
#28
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,746
If you'd like to practice for the Border Force, you can watch this series: www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4bRTk8Y-Z0
Jun 22, 2018, 12:47 am
#29
Community Director
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Norwich, UK
Programs: A3*G, BA Gold, BD Gold (in memoriam), IHG Diamond Ambassador
Posts: 8,476
Thank you for your very kind words. It's kind of funny...I actually was based in Norwich while I was studying in the UK...so you probably know which university I got the advice from.
To avoid going off-topic, I will say that I am due to return next month for graduation (only occurs once a year so I was invited to this July's ceremony). I understand that I will need to provide documents that show my visit is legitimate: letter of degree conferment, confirmation of graduation attendance, hotel bookings for the week, and of course a return ticket. I expect scrutiny and still haven't decided whether I am flying directly into LHR or if perhaps I should fly into NWI, meaning a likely connection in AMS.
To avoid going off-topic, I will say that I am due to return next month for graduation (only occurs once a year so I was invited to this July's ceremony). I understand that I will need to provide documents that show my visit is legitimate: letter of degree conferment, confirmation of graduation attendance, hotel bookings for the week, and of course a return ticket. I expect scrutiny and still haven't decided whether I am flying directly into LHR or if perhaps I should fly into NWI, meaning a likely connection in AMS.
Whilst you are likely to be scrutinised at whichever airport you arrive at, I'm inclined to think the process would be much quicker and less painful at NWI - they're only processing 100 passengers at most on the KLM flight from AMS, they will know the local university and likely have far better contacts there than the officers at LHR. It strikes me that local knowledge could be very important in this case, and a hotel reservation at only a Norwich hotel for the period of your visit ought to be another decent indication that you don't intend to travel elsewhere in the country and disappear.
Jun 24, 2018, 9:42 am
#30
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: NW London and NW Sydney
Programs: BA Diamond, Hilton Bronze, A3 Diamond, IHG *G
Posts: 6,344
When you enter with a student visa issued by the UK, you must by law present yourself to the UK Border Force when entering the country. If you come through Ireland you cannot meet this requirement because you will not come into contact with the UK Border Force.
On the other hand, it is perfectly permissible for a tourist from the US to enter Ireland and then the UK from Ireland.
On the other hand, it is perfectly permissible for a tourist from the US to enter Ireland and then the UK from Ireland.
Nobody will ask questions about having a new passport, but the UKBF agents will know all about the previous refusal of entry.
If you want more certainty about your entry to the UK, apply for a tourist visa. If it is granted and your circumstances do not change between the grant of visa and your arrival in the UK, there will be little rationale to refuse entry.