Christopher

That's true!

gnarly

Data point: Successfully entered the UK at Gatport Airwick with my Maltese ID card, simply because my UK passport was too deeply buried in my bag. My ticket (API) was linked to my ID card, so that's what I had used at my point of departure.

LondonElite

It's not really much of a data point, though. You are an EU citizen travelling within the EU and using an approved EU citizenship document to gain access (in this case to a non-Schengen country). The document to which your ticket was linked would not visible to UK Border Patrol, nor would it matter if it were.

My children have, among others, two EU citizenships. We regularly mix and match entry documents, not for any particular reason.

paul00

OP, just wondering if your Portuguese identity card is the new 'Cartăo de Cidadăo' with a chip, or the older lamniated non machine-readable paper version ('Bilhete de Identidade')?

My friend is a dual citizen (Portuguese and French - both EU nationalities). She has a Portuguese ID card (laminated paper non machine-readable version without a chip), no Portuguese passport, and a French e-passport. She tells me that when she presents her Portuguese ID card at the UK border, the UKBF official often spends a lot of time scrutinising the ID card (presumably because he/she has to enter her details into the computer manually, and to check that the security features of the card haven't been tampered with) and also often asks if she has her passport with her ('strongly advising' her to use her French e-passport instead of her Portuguese laminated paper ID card, even though the latter is technically and legally an equally valid identity and travel document). This is slightly different to your situation though as her second nationality (French) is also an EU nationality, so it's not a choice between using a non machine-readable paper ID card issued by an EU member state and a machine-readable/e-passport issued by a non-EU country.

Another friend of mine who is Romanian has similarly been 'strongly advised' by UKBF agents to use his Romanian e-passport instead of his Romanian identity card (which, again, is strictly speaking an equally valid identity and travel document). Romanian ID cards don't contain a chip yet - they are plastic, machine-readable cards with information on one side only. He always uses his e-passport rather than his ID card as he says it takes much longer to get through the border if he shows his ID card.

At the UKBF desks in Stansted, there are signs in Italian advising Italian citizens to present their passport rather than their ID card. Italian paper ID cards are not machine readable and are apparently considered by UKBF to be a common target for forgers.

Aviatrix

EU nationals are absolutely entitled to use their ID cards to enter the UK, and if I saw a sign advising me to use my passport I would make a point of using my ID card instead

mad_rich

Presumably, the reason for asking (or 'advising') people to use passports where possible is that it's quicker and easier to verify their legitimacy, against a dumb paper ID card. This is something which benefits the agent, the traveller, all the people behind the traveller in the queue, and indeed the whole country!

Assert your rights out of stubbornness if you must, but I don't see who stands to gain?

Often1

Exactly. Those who are mindlessly militant simply wind up moving slowly through a process which others breeze through in seconds. It's their choice though and likely speeds up the process even more for those who choose the sensible route.

Needless to say, those who don't have a passport, don't have a choice.

GUWonder

Taxpayers have to gain, with reduced waste of resources" natural and otherwise.

Which currently valid national ID cards (for cross-border intra-EU travel too) issued by authorities in the EU+Norway/Switzerland/Lichtenstein are just dumb paper ID cards?

Passports are no less subject to being faked, fraudulently or otherwise improperly used for cross-border intra-EU travel than national ID cards of the sort issued by the EU countries and valid under law for travel across the EU/Schengen area.

ajax

Are you sure about that? I thought the whole point of strongly advising Italian nationals (among others) not to use their national ID cards was that they are more likely to be forged.

GUWonder

There is always a chance I could be wrong in that I can't speak to the particulars of the Italian situation with regard to their national ID cards eligible for intra-EU/Schengen international travel, but I'm sure that Italian passports are subject to being faked, fraudulently acquired and/or fraudulently used by way of the same variety of means as may be done with at least some of the national ID cards issued by EU/Schengen states. I'm sure that fake and other fraudulent passport use has worked for some people to travel to (and even be admitted into) the US, Canada and/or the EU/Schengen countries -- in some cases repeatedly -- far more easily than if trying to use a national ID card which isn't as broadly accepted for international travel.

Passports are subject to being forged -- even the passports that comply with the ICAO/US VWP drives. How effectively are the forgeries utilized? Well that varies. Given the modernized ways the black market increasingly caters to fraudulent use of real passports, forgeries face competition from real passports being fraudulently used.

sigma421

I think the particular issue with Italy is that their national ID card is not a plastic card in the style of a UK driving licence but a folder piece of paper card with the photo glued in. To be honest it looks like something that could be knocked up in a shed.

Interestingly when a friend and I were recently exiting the Schengen in Slovakia I breezed through with a UK passport, he on the other hand (with the aforementioned Italian ID) was held for 10 minutes and made to complete an (incredible elementary) Italian language test.

GUWonder

Is your Italian friend from the German-speaking party of Italy? "I'm Italian, so I want this test in German."

I know a number of Italian passport holders -- of only Italian descent, some even born in Italy -- who speak no Italian (at least not anything beyond whatever Swahili someone could have picked up in a single children's song in the US). Given there are a number of Italian passport holders who have never been to Italy and have Italian citizenship due to some Italian grandparental history, language tests to validate Italian citizenship seems rather amusing.

sigma421

He's from Naples (which could bring up issues of its own!). I did wonder about this but we were late for a flight so I was in no mood to test the system. To be honest though the test was incredibly basic and a piece of theatre. I could pass it and I've not had a single Italian lesson in my life (although I do speak fluent Spanish and French).

:D!

People keep saying that immigration officers aren't allowed to ask any questions to EU/EEA citizens.

In the past 2 months I have noticed Schengen immigration officers increasingly asking "where are you going" or "where are you coming from", or in some cases assuming where EEA citizens are coming from/going if they have a foreign nationality, e.g. a French citizen at ARN I overheard being asked "Going to Paris?" - the answer was no, by the way.

Potentially this could be to ensure that people entering non-Schengen areas are intending to depart Schengen, but this assumes people are stupid and can't read gate numbers.

Back directly on topic, for the first time yesterday I noticed that LHR immigration officers were asking all non-UK citizens using the EEA line where they were coming from. Though they could have used the e-gate if they had a biometric passport and not get asked. The information was not recorded, obviously, but I do not see how it is relevant.

paul00

You're absolutely right - it is wrong for Slovak border officials to assume that a genuine Italian citizen would necessarily be fluent in the Italian language.

A few years ago, Aer Lingus required passengers travelling on a Greek identity card or passport to complete a Greek language test before they were allowed to board. A question was raised in the European Parliament by Georgios Papanikolaou MEP regarding the legality of this practice (see http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...22&language=EN). According to the MEP, the test questioned the passenger on his/her name and surname, date and place of birth, statement of destination and funds and also involved number recognition, general knowledge reading tests as well as sketches.

The Commission's response was that air carriers and border officials must not require travellers to undergo language tests as a condition for crossing the border and exercising their right to free movement (see http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/...22&language=EN).

Like Italy, Greece issues paper non machine-readable identity cards (Greek paper ID cards are laminated, whilst Italian paper ID cards, by law, must not be laminated, and are instead kept in a plastic wallet and removed from the wallet when presented for inspection at the border). At the time the Aer Lingus language test requirement was imposed on Greek passengers, although Greece had stopped issuing paper ID cards with handwritten information around 2000, there were still some handwritten paper ID cards in circulation as the maximum length of validity of such cards was 15 years. Interestingly, although the holder's information on most Italian paper ID cards is typewritten, some municipalities issue paper ID cards with the holder's information handwritten. I guess the reason Aer Lingus introduced the language test requirement for Greek passengers was that Greek ID cards, particular those with handwritten information, are more susceptible to forgery/falsification? (Although apparently passengers travelling on Greek passports, not ID cards, were also asked to complete a language test) Nonetheless, it is wrong to assume that a genuine Greek citizen would necessarily be fluent in the Greek language.

In 2006, BBC reporter Shahida Tulaganova showed how easy it was to obtain forged/stolen ID cards/passports from EU member states (or genuine ID cards/passports obtained by using another person's identity) and to pass through both Schengen exit checks and UK border checks to get into the UK. She succeeded in leaving the Schengen Area and entering the UK twice (once on a fake Latvian passport, the other time on a stolen Estonian passport). See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk/6169678.stm and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programme...ma/6158927.stm.

In 2011, Le Parisien reported that at least 10% of French e-passports are falsified (in actual terms, between 500,000 and 1 million in circulation, according to French police estimates). In many cases, the actual e-passport is 'genuine' (in the sense that it is actually issued by the government) - an applicant can easily obtain a 'genuine' e-passport using another person's identity (for example, by falsifying a birth certificate). The figures in the report were, however, later publically denied by the Ministry. The article is at http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-diver...le-166881.html