Domestic flights - Photo ID check on arrival
May 12, 2014, 5:15 pm
#16
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3 people in police uniform.
If it was some "terrorist" malarkey then I'm especially sure I refuse to kowtow. I grew up wih the IRA bombing my home town (twice), saw no need to bend over backwards then, and that was a real threat from an organised group.
If it was some "terrorist" malarkey then I'm especially sure I refuse to kowtow. I grew up wih the IRA bombing my home town (twice), saw no need to bend over backwards then, and that was a real threat from an organised group.
May 13, 2014, 12:15 am
#17
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I used to go out with a Brazilian national and learnt a lot about potential routes to try to evade UK Border control from their mates.
One could be transiting airside at Heathrow to a domestic flight and arriving into the UK on a domestic sector (is there passport control when transiting at T5?)
The preferred route used to be to arrive at AMS then transit to Dublin arriving as a Schengen arrival in Dublin. Then travelling to London via the land border into NI or on a CTA flight to London. Passenger may have clearance for AMS transit or to enter Netherlands but not to enter the UK.
Not sure if these still work... but they used to be well known.
There may have been a transit passenger on the LHR-MAN flight of interest.
One could be transiting airside at Heathrow to a domestic flight and arriving into the UK on a domestic sector (is there passport control when transiting at T5?)
The preferred route used to be to arrive at AMS then transit to Dublin arriving as a Schengen arrival in Dublin. Then travelling to London via the land border into NI or on a CTA flight to London. Passenger may have clearance for AMS transit or to enter Netherlands but not to enter the UK.
Not sure if these still work... but they used to be well known.
There may have been a transit passenger on the LHR-MAN flight of interest.
May 13, 2014, 12:19 am
#18
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The last time I flew on a delayed BCN to LHR evening flight there was a passport check at the gate on arrival. I suspect this was because the flight was delayed and there were a large number of Argentinian nationals connecting to the late Buenos Aires flight who were likely to miss their connection and be required to stay in the UK overnight and may not have entry clearance.
You were obviously well within your rights to protest at the check but where was probably a valid reason for them to do so (presumably to protect the UK)....
You were obviously well within your rights to protest at the check but where was probably a valid reason for them to do so (presumably to protect the UK)....
May 13, 2014, 12:58 am
#19
Join Date: Apr 2010
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I don't know the answer about the Aviation Act (there are few, I think). But I applaud the OP
for challenging the reasons for the ID check. I would have done exactly the same thing. Maybe
it's the lawyer in me but I always expect an official to be able to justify their cause of action.
H
for challenging the reasons for the ID check. I would have done exactly the same thing. Maybe
it's the lawyer in me but I always expect an official to be able to justify their cause of action.
H
May 13, 2014, 1:35 am
#20
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Saint Andrews, Scotland
Posts: 53
One could be transiting airside at Heathrow to a domestic flight and arriving into the UK on a domestic sector (is there passport control when transiting at T5?)
The preferred route used to be to arrive at AMS then transit to Dublin arriving as a Schengen arrival in Dublin. Then travelling to London via the land border into NI or on a CTA flight to London. Passenger may have clearance for AMS transit or to enter Netherlands but not to enter the UK.
The preferred route used to be to arrive at AMS then transit to Dublin arriving as a Schengen arrival in Dublin. Then travelling to London via the land border into NI or on a CTA flight to London. Passenger may have clearance for AMS transit or to enter Netherlands but not to enter the UK.
Ireland is not Schengen, so one cannot enter Ireland without some form of passport / EU ID. However, I believe that Ireland and the UK do not share immigration information, and may apply different standards on who is admissible. So may be potentially easier to enter the UK via an Irish rather than a UK airport.
May 13, 2014, 2:04 am
#21
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Has also happened to me on disembarking at ABZ from LHR - I refused to show photo-id - even though I did have my driving licence with me (as we're not yet a country where you have to carry "papers" to travel legally) and showed my BP. Police were not happy but did not pursue it.
Last edited by redpalmetto; May 13, 2014 at 2:04 am Reason: spelling
May 13, 2014, 2:11 am
#22
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Anyone happen to know if this is different for non-EU citizens? I'm a Canadian citizen living in the UK, and I've previously flown domestically within the UK without carrying photo ID. BA, of course, did not ask for photo ID. But if I'd been stopped by the police demanding photo ID, I wouldn't have had any to show them. (I generally leave my Canadian passport at home while traveling inside the country.)
May 13, 2014, 2:22 am
#23
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Edit: This is not aimed at the OP or anyone in particular, it's about making a point!
Why hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to act like a big boy with the police? I don't understand this attitude at all. Let the police get on with their job, they clearly had a reason to do what they were doing, but most of all don't hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to be awkward or prove a point.
Why hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to act like a big boy with the police? I don't understand this attitude at all. Let the police get on with their job, they clearly had a reason to do what they were doing, but most of all don't hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to be awkward or prove a point.
Last edited by Tobias-UK; May 13, 2014 at 2:53 am Reason: Edited to mention not a dig at the OP
May 13, 2014, 2:42 am
#24
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Happened to me back in March when I landed at EDI from LHR. I believe there was a 6 Nations championship rugby game and police must have been looking for overzealous fans?
I don't know what the big deal is about showing one's I.D. It is there job after all.
I don't know what the big deal is about showing one's I.D. It is there job after all.
May 13, 2014, 3:01 am
#26
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May 13, 2014, 3:07 am
#27
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In continental Europe, and imho most parts of Asia, police is allowed to stop you and ask for your (photo) ID at any time. If you don't have an ID with you (in Switzerland, for example, you're not required to carry one with you) they're allowed to bring you to the next police HQ to check your identity. How is it in the UK, they're not allowed to bring you with them if they "feel" you're not the person you're telling them?
May 13, 2014, 3:09 am
#28
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Edit: This is not aimed at the OP or anyone in particular, it's about making a point!
Why hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to act like a big boy with the police? I don't understand this attitude at all. Let the police get on with their job, they clearly had a reason to do what they were doing, but most of all don't hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to be awkward or prove a point.
Why hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to act like a big boy with the police? I don't understand this attitude at all. Let the police get on with their job, they clearly had a reason to do what they were doing, but most of all don't hold up the rest of the passengers because you want to be awkward or prove a point.
Whilst demanding ID documents may make the police's life easier, their rights to do this are limited, particularly where they have no reason to suspect that you may have committed an offence.
I for one applaud the OP for standing up for his rights.
Would you be equally accommodating if the police blocked the exits of a train or bus station and only allowed you to leave if you could present satisfactory documentation? How about setting up road blocks on a motorway and demanding ID from all drivers? Is that different? Is that more or less acceptable?
Let's be clear: the people holding up the passengers are the police who are demanding ID. I suspect that the reason that they let people pass with just a BP (however reluctantly) is that they know that their actions are potentially not justified in law and will try to contend if challenged that people voluntarily showed the ID when requested.
Sometimes I do think it is important to challenge officialdom's view that the end justifies the means. This seems to me to be one of those cases.
May 13, 2014, 3:19 am
#29
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I don't get this attitude of opposing authority just for the sake of exercising ones 'rights'. If you carry an ID, what is the issue with showing it to police when requested? And if you don't, when it is not legally required, just explain it without your strutting your chest like some anarchist thug.
If I was behind the OP in line, I'd be annoyed with the attitude as well as the assumption I would be ok to be held back because of OP's 'rights'.
I'd encourage people to travel to countries where there are genuine issues with human rights and skip the entitlement issues over petty matters like this. IMHO, of course.
If I was behind the OP in line, I'd be annoyed with the attitude as well as the assumption I would be ok to be held back because of OP's 'rights'.
I'd encourage people to travel to countries where there are genuine issues with human rights and skip the entitlement issues over petty matters like this. IMHO, of course.
May 13, 2014, 3:27 am
#30
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I am afraid I could not disagree more. The right to travel freely uninhibited by officialdom is a fundamental British right and a human right. Many have fought and died on our behalf to maintain freedoms such as this.
Whilst demanding ID documents may make the police's life easier, their rights to do this are limited, particularly where they have no reason to suspect that you may have committed an offence.
I for one applaud the OP for standing up for his rights.
Would you be equally accommodating if the police blocked the exits of a train or bus station and only allowed you to leave if you could present satisfactory documentation? How about setting up road blocks on a motorway and demanding ID from all drivers? Is that different? Is that more or less acceptable?
Let's be clear: the people holding up the passengers are the police who are demanding ID. I suspect that the reason that they let people pass with just a BP (however reluctantly) is that they know that their actions are potentially not justified in law and will try to contend if challenged that people voluntarily showed the ID when requested.
Sometimes I do think it is important to challenge officialdom's view that the end justifies the means. This seems to me to be one of those cases.
Whilst demanding ID documents may make the police's life easier, their rights to do this are limited, particularly where they have no reason to suspect that you may have committed an offence.
I for one applaud the OP for standing up for his rights.
Would you be equally accommodating if the police blocked the exits of a train or bus station and only allowed you to leave if you could present satisfactory documentation? How about setting up road blocks on a motorway and demanding ID from all drivers? Is that different? Is that more or less acceptable?
Let's be clear: the people holding up the passengers are the police who are demanding ID. I suspect that the reason that they let people pass with just a BP (however reluctantly) is that they know that their actions are potentially not justified in law and will try to contend if challenged that people voluntarily showed the ID when requested.
Sometimes I do think it is important to challenge officialdom's view that the end justifies the means. This seems to me to be one of those cases.
I'd consider it likely the actions of those who refuse to cooperate with the police in this context as obstructing a police officer, an offence under the Police Act. No ones freedoms have been taken away, no ones right to travel has been removed or prevented.
I cannot understand why people want to interfere with a police officer trying to carry on his lawful duties and hold up a plane full of passengers who just want to get to where they are going.
