ajax

My understanding is that the Chingford - Liverpool Street route is part of the National Rail network and not part of the London Underground network - unlike the Gospel Oak - Barking branch of the London Overground which stops at, among others, Walthamstow Queens Road.

Captain Schmidt

Maybe I have latent luddite tendencies but I'm more than happy that the tube is one place where I don't have to listen to yet more inane mobile conversations. IMO TFL has better things to do with its limited funds.

teflon

There's a subtle difference between overground trains and Overground trains.

London Overground is the name given to the TfL-operated railways comprising the North London Line, Gospel Oak to Barking, and DC Electrics from Euston to Watford (all formerly run by Silverlink), the East London Line (formerly part of the Underground, plus its newly-built extensions), and the West London Line (some services between Willlesden Junction and Clapham Junction).

If you used any of the Silverlink services in the past, you'd barely recognise them now - shiny new, frequent trains, manned stations, integrated fares with the Underground. TfL have spent a fair bit of money on them, so want them to show up on the tube map!

On the other hand, the overground is the colloquial name to pretty much any overground commuter trains in the capital. These don't get a look-in on the tube map, but you can find them on the Oyster Rail Services map - and on the much more cluttered London Connections map.

ajax

For anyone interested in a true (but slightly dated) geographical Tube map, here is a very good example:

http://img-thumb.ffffound.com/static...b8b84cf7_s.gif

travisc

That PDF is awesome! ^

If only 2019 could come sooner without having to age in the process

ajax

It does look very nice and, fair play to TfL, they have been rather good at completing things on time lately.

I note on the 2019 Tube map the absence of the Chelsea-Hackney Crossrail route (AKA 'Crossrail II'). I wonder if that will ever get built. Last I heard it was not on the cards.

I also wonder when they're finally going to start using the DLR tracks between Canning Town and Stratford International. They've been ready for over a year now and I have occasionally seen test trains on the tracks, but no idea as to their opening date has been forthcoming. The extension is on the 2015 Tube map (and you'd hope to God they'd be open before the Olympics) but who knows?

teflon

I believe the route's been safeguarded - ie they're not going to build anything major in its way. Dalston Junction station, for example, has a big empty space where they might build the stairs down to the new line.

It'll almost certainly be within the next month - by the time that the new Westfield opens - but it's rumoured to be this coming Monday, the 29th.

ajax

Oooh - very interesting. I'll have to keep my eyes open for it the next time I'm nearby.

Well wouldn't you bloody know it. Half a decade I suffer life in this hole and the week before I move down to the leafy Southwest they go and do the coolest thing that station's seen since the eastbound Central Line started opening on both sides!

Figures.

Mizter T

Crossrail 2 aka the 'Chelney' line is very much a longer term aspiration - absolutely no chance it's going to be built by the end of the decade (just see how long it's taken for Crossrail to get out of the starting blocks).

This line most certainly has not been ready for use yet lying idle for over a year! There have been various issues that have pushed back the opening of the line - I don't know the details, but I've come across a variety of problems being suggested as causes of the delay.

However I understand the line is likely to eventually open for business in the next week or two.

[Edit] I see teflon got there first!

ajax

I was using (slight) hyperbole. But major construction of the line and stations were completed in early 2010 and most pieces have simply sat there wrapped and unused since.

Although in the past few months I have noticed wrapping generally coming off of various things, like benches, signs and panes of glass. It's like an unveiling in slow-motion.

Ah well, I suppose we got very lucky with the LCY extension of the DLR coming in so quickly and cheaply.

Hooray! In this case, all's well that ends well. Provided it ends well.

Mizter T

Indeed - more information on Chelsea Hackney Line safeguarding on the Crossrail website here.

jedikiah

The whole point of Beck's representation is that it isn't a map and doesn't set out to be one but is a diagram of the system. This reached its height in the 1950s versions where use of diagonals were minimised. Beck criticised the previous semi-geographic representation as 'vermicelli' and this new 'map' in many respects looks eerily like a somewhat angular version of these 1920s predecessors (in particular the visitor's map).

SFOSpiff

The 2019 map is interesting - it shows Crossrail occupying the route now run by the Heathrow Connect. Is the plan to transfer that service under the Crossrail umbrella? Can we finally use Oyster to get to Heathrow in a reasonable amount of time and not pay an outrageous fare?

Also, am I the only one who finds it odd that there's two Overground lines terminating at Clapham Junction? Are we forever prevented from having a line that goes in a circle, because the Circle line no longer does?

NickB

Indeed, with increased frequency (every 1/4 hr), at least that was what was envisaged in 2008.

I really wonder about this. The crossrail LHR connection was with BAA funding. I am somewhat doubtful that BAA would give up on the Heathrow Express profits, especially as it is expected to keep on running even after crossrail. Unless the crossrail trains run ridiculously slowly, this would be bound to damage heathrow express profits, one would have thought and you have to wonder why BAA would have agreed to contribute to crossrail funding in this case.

Could it be a circle anyway? Does the overground at Highbury and Islington use the same (or connected) tracks for the ex-East London and ex-North London lines?

Mizter T

Running the Crossrail service through to Heathrow is certainly an integral part of the plan, but quite how it'll work out in terms of ticketing and also what might happen to the Heathrow Express service remains unclear. Bear in mind that it's possible that Crossrail users to/from Heathrow might be charged a premium on their fare - and Oyster is perfectly capable of implementing this. (So, whether or not its outrageous perhaps all depends on who wins in the battle of wits between TfL and BAA...)

It's never going to actually run in a complete circle - apart from anything else the issue of service disruption potentially nuking the whole of an orbital service would be too much (there'd also be other issues such as meshing the East London Line and North London Line services west of H&I on a flat junction, with lots of opportunities for conflicts). The service will always 'break' at Clapham Junction and Highbury & Islington - there is a single track at the latter location that links the ELL and NLL, but it's only intended for use to transfer empty trains.

The interchange between the ELL and NLL at H&I is pretty easy - yes it does require one to change platforms, but there are lifts - at Clapham Junction it'll be even easier, as the two services will just use different parts of the same platform.