Significant Difficulty in Using Equity Miles
 

I have 450,000 Equity Miles that I would like to use for Trans World One trips to Europe and Hawaii before they lose much of their value under the new award chart. I no longer fly TWA, as their route structure is not compatible with my travels and thus do not have any elite status.

My efforts to redeem these miles have been generally unsuccessful. While I realize that TWA has significantly reduced its European route structure, it also seems to allocate very few seats for award travel. I have tried to make reservations for the near future and for a year in advance and for various times in between. Generally I am told no seats are available for multi-month periods. I have several million miles on various other carriers and have never had anything near this kind of difficulty redeeming awards; even on those carriers I do not have elite status.

When speaking with TWA’s service center, I have been told overall they allocate very few seats for awards and on many flights and on certain days of the week (not officially black-out dates) they allocate no award seats. Even getting the domestic award seats from Denver to New York (when available at non peak times months in advance) to connect to an international flight (that is not available anyway) would involve several hour waits between connecting flights. I have spoken with a couple of open supervisors who confirm the very limited inventory and say they constantly receive complaints. They also claim they have no authority to make exceptions as the inventory is solely controlled by the marketing department. One supervisor even (surprisingly) speculated that seats are so limited as they want to force people to use their miles under the new award chart so as to minimize TWA’s liability.

My question is does anyone with recent TWA experience have any ideas or strategies for getting award seats? I could probably get them to comp their mid level elite, as I have mid level or top level elite status on a several carriers. Does elite status help one obtain award seats on TWA? However, I hate to do this, as I really will not fly them much, if at all. Your thought are much appreciated.

Many thanks.

If you can get to the Platinum level you will have no trouble at all as there are no capacity controls whatsoever with that level of status. By the way, I thought that the equity chart expired 12/31/99. You can still use your equity miles, but only under the new chart levels.

Thanks Paul3456. You had to redeem the miles by 12/31/99. The certificates (which I have in hand)are valid to redeem for tickets a year from date of issue and you can travel up to a year after that. As I recall Randy had a lot to do with the extension. Still trying to use them a year from now is virtually impossible.

What about using awards at other elite levels? I doubt they will comp the top level as few airlines do.

Thanks

[This message has been edited by BIL_Flyer (edited 02-26-2000).]

I'm not aware of any blackout date benefits for lower level elite 1 or elite members. It's only platinum members who can overcome capacity controls.

I would think that if you can demonstrate that you have several million miles on various other carriers that TWA could be enticed to give you Platinum membership. In a business letter be sure to "explain" that your travel pattern will add more Caribbean destinations http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif and they'll review your letter with some inclination to approve.

It's a long shot, but it's better than letting the certs expire.

I'm sorry to hear about your inability to use your certificates. Although I don't understand all of the angst about the FFB Equity award chart (for example, some awards are for travel on Piedmont Airlines), if I had the certs I would want to use them. It is for certain that the FFB Equity Chart has been a big problem for TWA in the recent years for a number of fliers like yourself.

In regards to Avaitor awards, although I haven't asked for award travel to Hawaii or Europe, I have reserved as many as 6 to 8 award seats on a single aircraft for MCO, LAS, LGA, SAN, SJU, and others. The travel plans were flexible and we have had success whenever we needed to receive an award.

If this is a help, I understand that TWA is offering new service from STL to Maui beginning in March. Since that is a new flight, perhaps it won't be clogged with fliers trying to redeem their FFB miles. They announced the flight back in Nov-Dec, so it's not necessarily new news (so again here we might be too late).

I guess one more thing to consider is to use some award miles for Adam Mark hotel nights... 20,000 miles will provide a two night stay.

Good luck, Bil_Flyer. Although I don't see many options for you, maybe it's time for letter on a law firm's letterhead?.

Buck, thanks for your comments.

I have redeemed my equity miles for 10 FC/TWO certificates and am now trying to get reservations. The angst is because I acquired these miles by flying TWA a lot in the old days before there were many bonuses. I hate to lose the benefit of equity miles (two FC/TWO tickets to Europe or Hawaii for 90,000 miles vs 80,000 miles for one in the new chart). I think this is very significant inflation.

I also have been flexible as to timing, but no availability for months at a time seems a bit restrictive. I have tried to redeem these miles on and off for a couple of years and I have always had this problem. I am now concerned because they expire and I hate to suffer this inflation.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[This message has been edited by BIL_Flyer (edited 02-26-2000).]

I've got no experience in redeeeming awards on TWA, but I can give you firsthand information on comping a elite level.

Last year I qualified for Elite and requested a comp to Platinum or Elite 1. With my request was a copy of my current CO Onepass statement (Platinum), Southwest statement showing ten or fifteeen flights from St. Louis and a letter explaining my travel habits.

I was denied despite repeated requests and updates on my travel to and from St. Louis that didn't include TWA. In their response letters, they repeatedly pointed out that I had achieved Elite, and that Aviators had a very generous upgrade policy.

From other posts it appears that liberal upgrade policy is changing. It also looks like yuo could be an Elite member by renting a car from Avis and taking a couple of flights. Oh well.

As a top level (Platinum) member for many years on TWA, I have no difficulty in redeeming miles. This is the Best Advantage of getting to this level. But I know they tightened up on granting Platinum status for those that were close to requirements or "comps".

But the Maui flights should be available as just recently announced and not advertised too much. If you watch for any other new routes and jump on it quickly, may be able to score.

FYI, I am going to HNL on Tue. in First using the Equity miles (I thought it was 70 K for 2??). Had no problem getting reservation and even changed them 30 days ago. But then again, I'm Platinum.

Other concern, will TWA be around too much longer with their financial difficulties?

Also, can't you move these into some other program -- HH or AMEX or ?? (at a loss), but at least use them. TWA is a Latin Pass Partner, but don't know how that may work.

Could also send Randy a note. Seems a shame you have rewards and can't use them -- assuming you are flexible on dates, etc.

Good Luck.

Sapman, thanks for the reply.

Have been told on several occassions that it is 70,000 miles for 2 FC in Continental US and PR, but that Hawaii is 90,000 for two.

Moving miles into another program is the same problem as with TWA. The cost per award effectively doubles. You do not lose your equity miles with TWA, they just effectively lose half their value.

I too am concerned with their financial and operational viability. If they were taken over, my guess is the new owner would probably honor the miles, but would probably not extend the redemption time of the equity miles. This, of course, assumes that someone buys them as a going concern and they are not sold in pieces for their assets. If only assets are acquired, especially on a piecemeal basis, everyone's FF miles are probably worthless.

Thanks for your thoughts.

The Maui flight is a new one, but apparently rather popular. FC seats seem to be a bit limited, but probably easier to get than the HNL flight at this point. I spent 90,000 miles (using the new award chart) for 1 free FC ticket (60,000) and 1 FC upgrade from a discount fare (30,000) I have found that using the Elite 1 number has given me better results in terms of using miles- they seem to be a bit more flexible and patient in searching. I am flying in late April on what I thought was a blackout date, but I think that a supervisor waived the date for me.

There has been quite a bit of discussion on this board about TWA's decision to suddenly put an expiration date on its "forever" equity awards in 1998. It was a mistake that was a slap in the face of customers who had earned those miles in good faith. What made matters worse was that TWA did not open up seats for the flood of requests that would naturally occur when you make such a decision (anybody remember the Pan Am fiasco when they were filling planes to Hawaii with free tickets when they did something similar?).

Good luck on using your 450,000 equity miles. TWA has pulled over half of their international destinations from when you earned those miles and reduced the frequency and size of planes to the destinations that they maintained. Not a good combination.

BIL-Flyer

I just checked. It was 70K Equity miles for 2 trips to Hawaii. I have the FFB Equity Award Chart that came out when they discontinued the Equity program (I keep everything) which was good for Equity miles (earned thru June 98). I did cash in 70K Equity miles for my Hawaii trip I am taking (with my wife) next week.

Code is TWJ.

In the note, they said the "Equity Miles will be available to you indefinetely to claim awards for travel on TWA from the following FFB Equity Awards". (chart followed)

Also stated elsewhere: "Equity Miles earned through 6/30/89: Will always be available to claim FFB Equity Awards. Of course, as with ALL notices, the "subject to change without notice" is also included.

Other FFB Equity Award Levels:
50 K for 2 Coach Tix to HI.
20K for 1 coach Tix to Mainland US
35K for 1 coach International tix Oct-Apr.
50K for 1 coach Intern. rest of year.
60K for 2 coach to Europe tix
90K for 2 First class to Europe.

One of best deals was 10K for upgrade to Frist Class (with any fare coach) which was good for Hawaii..

Sapman, thanks again for the info.

It goes to show how accurate the Service Center is. I was repeatedly told you needed 90,000 for 2 FC tickets to Hawaii, just like Europe. My TWA equity miles were all earned before mid 1989.

However, the issue is now mute, as I have redeemed my miles for certificates. The deadline for doing so was 12/31/99. So I am out of luck. Frankly, I really would not mind giving them 90,000 miles for 2 FC tickets to Hawaii, if I could just use them.

One comment on the upgrades. I considered redeeming my miles for the one 1 free ticket and 1 upgrade awards and a number of any fare upgrades. However, I decided against it when I was twice told that free tickets and upgrades come out of the same inventory for these awards and thus upgrades were as difficult to obtain as the free tickets.

I do not know if I was being given a line or simply wrong information, but I did not want to take the risk of having even a larger number of tickets and upgrades that are almost impossible to use.

I strongly agree with freakflyer and I assume your implication that this process is unfair, but what can we do, other than not fly them.

Thanks again.

[This message has been edited by BIL_Flyer (edited 02-27-2000).]

In regards to upgrades and free FC seats coming out of the same "bucket", I heard both stories from the Aviators Service Center, but do not know which is true.

One agent told me that she was searching all FC seats, as you have suggested, because they lumped upgrades and free seats together. However, another agent had a different story, as she claimed that on some flights, upgrade seats were available, but not free FC seats, and vice-versa.

There is not a whole lot of availability going to Europe, especially when you consider that there is only 1 flight a day for most of the year to all of those cities. With 24 to 30 FC seats, I am sure that they are very limited. I was able to find a FC seat here and there, but not two together. There seemed to be plenty of coach tickets available, though.

Thanks for the comments, Socalterp.

You hit the nail on the head. I saved these miles for FC trips to Europe and/or Hawaii expecting to have an unlimited amount of time to use them as they implied when they changed the program and some sort of reasonable availability or at least no pressure to use them. Now they are forcing you to use them or suffer vitrually 100% inflation, yet they do not have any seats available.

Frankly, I spend I really do not relish the thought of spending 18 hours getting from Denver to Europe in coach. Further my discussions with the service center indicate there is some, but only extremely limited available seating in coach. By the way, on several occassions the agents even sounded as if they are doing me a favor by checking on award travel - almost like one does not deserve it.

I really do feel treated very badly. First they imply one has an unlimited amount of time to use the miles; then they put a time limit on it; and then tightly restrict one's ability to use them. I spent a lot of time on TWA building up these miles when you earned them primarily by flying and am just frustrated and disappointed. Frankly, I would prefer not to use the miles, but as their value of going to be cut in half, I want to use them.

I have not had problems any where near this severe on any other airline. Sure you may not be able to go exactly when you want to, but usually there are alternatives, if you can show some flexibility. With TWA there seems to be virtually no availability, even if one is flexible.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

I think it is probably an issue w/the inflation in points, but can you claim on Icelandair from MSP to Europe?

jl