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Has TK just resigned over the current situation?

Has TK just resigned over the current situation?

Old Sep 13, 20, 7:15 am
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Has TK just resigned over the current situation?

After reading a previous post by luitje about his problems at IST with support, it got me thinking.
When you sum up some of the most prevalent customer satisfaction parameters for frequent travellers, is TK just resigning over the situation in the global aviation industry?

It seem like other flag carriers I know of are slowly but steadily getting back to a deasent level of operation concerning frequent travellers needs (I'm not talking refunds now).

Here is my sum up. Its hands on and read experiences from others with TK, since I got my status match (which I'm happy with), some one and a half years ago and during covid 19.

Sum up:
- Miles and Smiles hard to communicate with if you don't speak turkish.

- Soft product non existing.

- AH's was sub par before covid 19 to say it mildly and now if possible, even worse (but still great soft product before covid 19, even though).

- Support funktions in IST could might as well have a sign with "come back next week".

- TK has one, if not the worst safety/near accident/accident record of any flag carrier.

- Constant online glitches.

- IST lounge/s has become a mediocre contract lounge in regards to catering, thus without alcohol.

- You are not allowed to switch places on board the plane, even if it is nearly empty, due to Covid 19?

I'm not writing this to come down on TK, my question originates from not understanding TK's decision making for a long term viable company.

Before TK were market leading regarding soft product/lounge experience ext. in my opinion. Where do they have an upper hand these days and why should I use my money there and not elsewhere.
​​​​​​​If, as I do have alternatives?
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Old Sep 13, 20, 9:26 am
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Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
AH's was sub par before covid 19 to say it mildly
What's an AH ??

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- Miles and Smiles hard to communicate with if you don't speak turkish.

- Support funktions in IST could might as well have a sign with "come back next week".
Grains of truth here. But on the other hand telephone and desk agents can be charming and helpful.
But with Turkish it certainly helps to realise when a call is going nowhere, and try later


Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- Soft product non existing.

- and now if possible, even worse (but still great soft product before covid 19, even though).
Not sure if I understand this. The pre-COVID (and, presumably, post-COVID) meal service was good in economy, pure theatre in business-class. Now it is drastically curtailed.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- Constant online glitches.
TK's IT has a capacity to irritate, but I've only experienced this in administration of its frequent flyer programme. Perhaps I'm lucky.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- IST lounge/s has become a mediocre contract lounge in regards to catering, thus without alcohol.
In normal times the lounges are extravagant in the range and quality of what they offer. The current offer suffers greatly in comparison, andI guess alcohol is important for some.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- TK has one, if not the worst safety/near accident/accident record of any flag carrier.
TK has certainly had a chequered history. But the last fatal crash was over a decade ago.
The airline is IATA safety certified, belongs to STAR Alliance, and isn't on any aviation black-list.

Not much more to say about that, though if you believe what you wrote I guess that transcends any concern with food and booze.

Meaning i wouldn't fly with a carrier because of catering if i thought it was unsafe



Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
Where do they have an upper hand these days and why should I use my money there and not elsewhere.
If, as I do have alternatives?
You're a rational being, the choice is yours. If you are unsatisfied with the airline, you'd be crazy to continue flying TK if you have reasonable alternatives within your time and cash budgets.

The upper hand for me comes from schedule and fare, first; then on-board comfort.
TK generally offers excellent schedules and connections to place I want to go: but where that is not the case, or when the fare is too high, I'll happily look elsewhere.
The frequent-flyer programme helps, as does the link with Turkey.
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Old Sep 13, 20, 9:32 am
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As someone who flies alot with many airlines, I think you are being hard on TK.

On my flight in J, people were allowed to move around, once flight took off ( IST-JFK Sept 03 )

Check in in Istanbul quite smooth.

I do speak Turkish, I'll give you that but even when I called the English speaking hotline, I got the help I needed.

Miles & Smiles Lounge is still not bad. Granted, they do not have all the food but it is quite comfortable. They had many pastries and puddings, good amount of Salads, Kofte and Pide, Tea Station, etc.

The airline's on time performance is quite good. I have never had massive delays.

I too hope that things will improve soon , particularly with on board food. However, I am using TK right now to travel safely to where I want to go, rather than for entertainment reasons.
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Old Sep 13, 20, 10:56 am
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Originally Posted by IAN-UK View Post
What's an AH ??

Air host, just realised it is ancient 😊

Grains of truth here. But on the other hand telephone and desk agents can be charming and helpful.
But with Turkish it certainly helps to realise when a call is going nowhere, and try later


I might just have been unlucky. The latter I totally agree with.




Not sure if I understand this. The pre-COVID (and, presumably, post-COVID) meal service was good in economy, pure theatre in business-class. Now it is drastically curtailed.

Thank you for clearing my "non existing" up. As you write it is drastically curtailed.



​​​​​​In normal times the lounges are extravagant in the range and quality of what they offer. The current offer suffers greatly in comparison, andI guess alcohol is important for some.

Yes and yes 👍

TK has certainly had a chequered history. But the last fatal crash was over a decade ago.
The airline is IATA safety certified, belongs to STAR Alliance, and isn't on any aviation black-list.

I was in doubt if I should write it, after reading the last thread in this forum about the subject. It got headed to say it mildly, so I will refrain from going further on with the subject.


The upper hand for me comes from schedule and fare, first; then on-board comfort.
TK generally offers excellent schedules and connections to place I want to go: but where that is not the case, or when the fare is too high, I'll happily look elsewhere.
The frequent-flyer programme helps, as does the link with Turkey.

As I wrote, this is not a rant on TK, it's an opening for a discussion about where TK is going from now on? I'm outlining some of the cons of TK, that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of good to be said aswell.

I would like to add to that, that in my opinion TK's overall performance as it stands as of today is behind its European flag carrier counterparts that I fly.

When that is said my biggest concern with TK is the numerous of accounts of TK's unvillingness to provide service during irrops. That was also the reason the post by luitje was the catalyst for this one. I'm sure I have been extremely lucky during my many years of travel to not have had that many problems to write home about.
For TK's matter it seems by this forum to be a fairly big problem?

Last edited by flyertalker00973; Sep 13, 20 at 11:27 am
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Old Sep 13, 20, 10:57 am
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Sorry that post got messed up ☹️
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Old Sep 13, 20, 11:09 am
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Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
After reading a previous post by luitje about his problems at IST with support, it got me thinking.
When you sum up some of the most prevalent customer satisfaction parameters for frequent travellers, is TK just resigning over the situation in the global aviation industry?
First luitje 's situation is different, TK systems do not match with other airlines and on trips to the USA, I had many occasions that I wasn't handed boarding passes for the upcoming legs, even once when flying IST-LHR-IAD with BA, after numerous attempts, the agents in IST could not print my boarding pass as the system told them that they needed to check something at LHR ( this was the explanation that was made to me ), in the end I was handed my boarding pass at the transfer counter at LHR without issue. I assume that he would get his boarding pass at the transfer counter.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
It seem like other flag carriers I know of are slowly but steadily getting back to a deasent level of operation concerning frequent travellers needs (I'm not talking refunds now).
I could agree with you about TK's soft product. They are at the bottom at the moment.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
Here is my sum up. Its hands on and read experiences from others with TK, since I got my status match (which I'm happy with), some one and a half years ago and during covid 19.

Sum up:
- Miles and Smiles hard to communicate with if you don't speak turkish.
It's even hard to communicate if you speak Turkish, some third-party contracted Turkish speaking hotline agents, could not also issue *A awards, cannot change multi-city tickets without speaking to a supervisor, etc...

Numerous times, I was offered to be filled a feedback form ( if you're Elite Plus, the agent fills it out for you on the phone ) or I was asked to contact a sales office during IRROPS and schedule changes.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- Soft product non existing.
True

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- AH's was sub par before covid 19 to say it mildly and now if possible, even worse (but still great soft product before covid 19, even though).
I would ask the same question what is AH?

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- Support funktions in IST could might as well have a sign with "come back next week".
Have never noticed one but it might be true.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- Constant online glitches.
Yes, their website is not perfect.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- IST lounge/s has become a mediocre contract lounge in regards to catering, thus without alcohol.


Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
- You are not allowed to switch places on board the plane, even if it is nearly empty, due to Covid 19?
I guess now, it depends on the crew on board. When there were empty rows, I was seated in 4A, 4B was empty and my neighbor ( stranger ) was seated at 4C. My neighbor asked the crew if he could move to row 1 which was empty and got the answer, you are not allowed to change seats due to COVID. Rows 1, 2, and 3 were empty on that flight.

Also, I had a friend that flown transatlantic last month. He was seated in 2A on a 777-300ER, he had a neighbor ( stranger ) at 2B and he asked the crew to move to 2JK which was empty; my friend told me that the crew needed to ask her supervisor and after a discussion of 5 minutes, my friend was allowed to change seats.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
I'm not writing this to come down on TK, my question originates from not understanding TK's decision making for a long term viable company.
We all don't know what they are trying to do.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
Before TK were market leading regarding soft product/lounge experience ext. in my opinion. Where do they have an upper hand these days and why should I use my money there and not elsewhere.
If, as I do have alternatives?
Same, when there are better alternatives, why should I pay my money to TK.
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Old Sep 13, 20, 11:50 am
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My reply to IAN-UK got really messed up hope you can dicipher it!

So where should TK go from here to preserve some "happy" frequent travellers?

For me a good start would be to communicate something about what is going on. Not just covid 19 "you are not allowed to..."

To the contrary of what some might think after reading my post I do like TK, just a lot less at the moment and to the degree I wouldn't use any money there.
But I certainly would like to see TK coming out of this crisis with a top tuned organisation to cater for its frequent travellers!
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Old Sep 13, 20, 1:00 pm
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Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
My reply to IAN-UK got really messed up hope you can dicipher it!
It's better at the moment, thanks for adding the underline.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
So where should TK go from here to preserve some "happy" frequent travellers?

For me a good start would be to communicate something about what is going on. Not just covid 19 "you are not allowed to..."
This is what TK should concentrate on, however, with the amount of "rare travelers" ( opposite of frequent travelers ) that use TK at the moment, plus the high Turkish descent population outside of Turkey that use TK for their patriotic feelings or for flying direct with no connections when visiting Turkey ( without checking prices on other airlines ), they already have a plus compared to other carriers.

As most of the Asian ( Indian peninsula, Middle East, Far East, Southeast Asia ) countries are already closed, it's normal that TK is doing better in terms of loads compared to Gulf carriers.

I also think that the TK executives are happy with the current situation, however, I have no idea if they made deep research that cost-cutting would actually save more money in the long run, or they are predicting something but I could tell you that it's pretty obvious that with the current passenger loads which are high enough for post-COVID, TK would not back up from their post-COVID cost-cutting for a long while.

Later on, I wouldn't be surprised if TK starts BoB on domestic and shorter international routes ( similar to what BA did ), they would still earn a huge amount of revenue as they already have a high amount of people that use only TK because of the Stockholm Syndrome.

Originally Posted by GR15 View Post
To the contrary of what some might think after reading my post I do like TK, just a lot less at the moment and to the degree I wouldn't use any money there.
But I certainly would like to see TK coming out of this crisis with a top tuned organisation to cater for its frequent travellers!
I would also be happy when TK survives from this post-COVID pandemic theater, provides a decent service, and goes back up to a 5-star-service onboard and the ground. I wish this happens as soon as possible so I could have a reasonable excuse to travel TK.
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Old Sep 13, 20, 3:43 pm
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As many of you can attest from my posting over the years, I am always matter of fact and truthful when it comes to TK's faults, yet will also tip my hat when they do something right. I write the following as a frequent traveler with TK for the last THIRTY YEARS, not someone who was comped status 18 months ago. (and as a traveler who has LIFETIME STATUS on EVERY MAJOR EUROPEAN CARRIER............BA- GCFL, AF/KL - PFL, LH-SFL) so here it goes............

We all know what TK's fault's are even pre-Covid. So re-hashing them here is a waste of time. Furthermore TK is really no better or worse than the other major European carriers at the moment. In many cases TK flies to some places that none of the others do, and v/v. TK's home lounge is as good or still better than many others at the moment. TK's onboard catering is lacking especially in Business Class, when comparing Economy however, if TK is serving something, that still puts them way ahead of many European carriers that serve NOTHING.

One thing that I am not seeing is TK jettison workers or aircraft. I see LH trimming their fleet by over 140 a/c including most of their larger ones (only the 748's and a few A340's will survive for example), I am seeing BA Jettison its 74's and soon A380's, and a similar amount of capacity not in the pipeline for many years.

TK management knows that catering is their big/strong thing, they really do, so here is what I think................personally I am giving all airlines until the end of the first quarter next year to get their houses in order, then I will make judgements, even if it is "still" Covid time. We still are in a situation where nothing is normal and unfortunately catering and the like are still considered non-essential issues.
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Old Sep 13, 20, 7:16 pm
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Originally Posted by hfly View Post
As many of you can attest from my posting over the years, I am always matter of fact and truthful when it comes to TK's faults, yet will also tip my hat when they do something right. I write the following as a frequent traveler with TK for the last THIRTY YEARS, not someone who was comped status 18 months ago. (and as a traveler who has LIFETIME STATUS on EVERY MAJOR EUROPEAN CARRIER............BA- GCFL, AF/KL - PFL, LH-SFL) so here it goes............

We all know what TK's fault's are even pre-Covid. So re-hashing them here is a waste of time. Furthermore TK is really no better or worse than the other major European carriers at the moment. In many cases TK flies to some places that none of the others do, and v/v. TK's home lounge is as good or still better than many others at the moment. TK's onboard catering is lacking especially in Business Class, when comparing Economy however, if TK is serving something, that still puts them way ahead of many European carriers that serve NOTHING.

One thing that I am not seeing is TK jettison workers or aircraft. I see LH trimming their fleet by over 140 a/c including most of their larger ones (only the 748's and a few A340's will survive for example), I am seeing BA Jettison its 74's and soon A380's, and a similar amount of capacity not in the pipeline for many years.

TK management knows that catering is their big/strong thing, they really do, so here is what I think................personally I am giving all airlines until the end of the first quarter next year to get their houses in order, then I will make judgements, even if it is "still" Covid time. We still are in a situation where nothing is normal and unfortunately catering and the like are still considered non-essential issues.

You have to deliberate a bit. In what way does 30 years of extensive flying make you a better judge of the last 6 month of unprecedented times in flying then others? My guess is you don't have that many historical facts to draw on in regards to aviation industry in a pandemic? But I might be wrong in that it was not the reason for you pulling rank?

When it comes to Airlines not being better or worse I would fly LX any day over TK now.

In regards to jettison workers at TK I was of the understanding that quite a lot had a substantial decrease in salary? I'm quite sure I read it was a 1/3 for FA. But of course your right no lay off.



​​​​​​​
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Old Sep 13, 20, 7:23 pm
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Originally Posted by hfly View Post
As many of you can attest from my posting over the years, I am always matter of fact and truthful when it comes to TK's faults, yet will also tip my hat when they do something right. I write the following as a frequent traveler with TK for the last THIRTY YEARS, not someone who was comped status 18 months ago. (and as a traveler who has LIFETIME STATUS on EVERY MAJOR EUROPEAN CARRIER............BA- GCFL, AF/KL - PFL, LH-SFL) so here it goes............

We all know what TK's fault's are even pre-Covid. So re-hashing them here is a waste of time. Furthermore TK is really no better or worse than the other major European carriers at the moment. In many cases TK flies to some places that none of the others do, and v/v. TK's home lounge is as good or still better than many others at the moment. TK's onboard catering is lacking especially in Business Class, when comparing Economy however, if TK is serving something, that still puts them way ahead of many European carriers that serve NOTHING.

One thing that I am not seeing is TK jettison workers or aircraft. I see LH trimming their fleet by over 140 a/c including most of their larger ones (only the 748's and a few A340's will survive for example), I am seeing BA Jettison its 74's and soon A380's, and a similar amount of capacity not in the pipeline for many years.

TK management knows that catering is their big/strong thing, they really do, so here is what I think................personally I am giving all airlines until the end of the first quarter next year to get their houses in order, then I will make judgements, even if it is "still" Covid time. We still are in a situation where nothing is normal and unfortunately catering and the like are still considered non-essential issues.

You have to deliberate a bit. In what way does 30 years of extensive flying make you a better judge of the last 6 month of unprecedented times in flying? My guess is you don't have that many historical facts to draw on in regards to aviation industry in a pandemic? But I might be wrong in that was not the reason for you pulling rank?

When it comes to Airlines not being better or worse I would fly LX any day over TK.

In regards to jettison workers at TK I was of the understanding that quite a lot had a substantial decrease in salary? I'm quite sure I read it was a 1/3 for FA's. But of course your right no lay off.

As I have alternatives, I'm not giving any Airlines 6 months more if I don't feel I get what I'm paying for, even during a pandemic.

That was my honest opinion.
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Old Sep 14, 20, 4:39 am
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Well if your travels happen to coincide with the roughly 200 flights A WEEK that Swiss is currently operating, then good for you.

Please explain to me how your comped status for a year before the Covid outbreak, and the limited flying you did after receiving that comped status means anything - obviously you didn't fly that much as you would be mentioning that you are E+, right?

I am sure that the 12,000 people being fired by BA, the 22,000 by LH, etc etc, would far prefer getting a salary decrease than losing their jobs outright, wouldn't you? Also you ignored the a/c, Except for maybe 3-4 planes that TK has not extended leases on, which is normal, they have not reduced their fleet (yes planes are parked, but they are not being scrapped). Which means that they have a better prognosis for coming back eventually than the others.
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Old Sep 14, 20, 6:08 am
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Originally Posted by hfly View Post
Well if your travels happen to coincide with the roughly 200 flights A WEEK that Swiss is currently operating, then good for you.

Please explain to me how your comped status for a year before the Covid outbreak, and the limited flying you did after receiving that comped status means anything - obviously you didn't fly that much as you would be mentioning that you are E+, right?

I am sure that the 12,000 people being fired by BA, the 22,000 by LH, etc etc, would far prefer getting a salary decrease than losing their jobs outright, wouldn't you? Also you ignored the a/c, Except for maybe 3-4 planes that TK has not extended leases on, which is normal, they have not reduced their fleet (yes planes are parked, but they are not being scrapped). Which means that they have a better prognosis for coming back eventually than the others.
So if I understand you correctly you agree that LX has a better product at the moment, but that it doesn't count because they only operate 200 flights a week?

Just to get the playing field even did you fly the same pre/post covid?

Where did I write anything about planes, LH or BA downsizing. I highlighted the fact that it is not business as usual for TK, as you made it sound like.
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Old Sep 14, 20, 9:38 am
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If you really see these as unusual times, then why make the judgements you have? Seriously? DO you think that today's situation will last forever for TK and the others? Honestly I have not flown LX during Covid, so cannot comment, I can comment that neither Swiss or Swissair, its predecessor have generally had a better product than TK since about 1997...................So do they have a better product now than TK? I don't know, but considering that 6 months ago they were an airline 10% the size of TK, and are currently operating at maybe 30% of THAT, it would not be too difficult, would it? So for example, I am sure that it is easy for them to implement anything normally on their extensive domestic network............
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Old Sep 14, 20, 10:57 am
  #15  
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Ultimately we (or Companies/clients who pay for our tickets ) should vote with our wallets.

I will not travel with TK any time soon. But there will be plenty of people who will...

IMHO TK does not listen to passengers - we have been complaining about TGS for years - has anything changed for the better?

IMHO it would be insane to lose the positive image of an airline with the best catering, they build for so many years. But TK CEO (or CFO ) might be a different opinion...
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