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Denied Boarding by TK - is their reason valid

Denied Boarding by TK - is their reason valid

Old Dec 27, 19, 1:40 am
  #1  
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Denied Boarding by TK - is their reason valid

Happy holidays everyone!
I want to share my recent experience with TK and ask your opinion on this matter.

So, what happened was:
- I was on my way to Europe for new year holiday with TK , route is XXX-IST-OSL//TXL-IST-XXX, all in one ticket
- My original plan was to have a long layover in Oslo, get out to the city, and take a D5 flight (separate ticket) in the evening to Paris, my main destination. (Flight to Oslo was cheaper than to Paris and I've never been to the city)
- I have a valid Schengen visa issued by Embassy of France
- in IST I was denied Boarding because the gate agent said "you won't be allowed to enter Schengen in Oslo"
- even after I showed him my D5 ticket, he wouldn't budge and the plane left without me
- he took me to TK "Care Point" to settle my issue there and left
- I explained my situation to the TK Care Point agent but after a few call to "visa office(?)" , all of the agents I interacted with said the gate agent was right because I need to first enter Schengen via France before going to other Schengen countries.
- I told them when I applied for my visa the requirement only stated that I need to apply Schengen visa in the Embassy of "country of my point of entry OR the country where I plan to stay the longest".
- the agents wouldn't budge and said "sorry, I'm not a visa expert but the visa office said that is the general visa requirement. Since this is the first time you use your Schengen visa, you wouldn't be allowed entry in Oslo or anywhere else outside France."
- I asked if there is any such written in Embassy page or IATA but they just said "sorry, you need to buy a new ticket."
- at the end I didn't want to spend too much of my holiday time arguing and just bought a separate ticket direct to Paris

So my questions now:
1. Am I wrong thinking that I could use my Schengen visa to enter any Schengen country? ( I was planning to spend most of my time in France)
2. Any recourse to recoup some of my losses ? (Lost time in Oslo, unused D5 ticket between OSL-CDG, new TK ticket between IST- CDG?

*Side note: 10 years ago I had a Schengen visa issued by German embassy, enter visa Copenhagen, spending most of my holiday in Germany, and left visa Switzerland. Has the rule changed since then?
*To me, this is not logical because that means I cannot use any of the Schengen airline for this holiday beside Air France or La Compagnie , due to other airlines itinerary's need of transit.

I'm not letting this experience ruin my vacation, but really want to hear a good explanation.
Thanks in advance!
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Old Dec 27, 19, 1:53 am
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- I was on my way to Europe for new year holiday with TK , route is XXX-IST-OSL//TXL-IST-XXX, all in one ticket
- My original plan was to have a long layover in Oslo, get out to the city, and take a D5 flight (separate ticket) in the evening to Paris, my main destination. (Flight to Oslo was cheaper than to Paris and I've never been to the city)
Happy to help, but this this doesn’t make any sense, sorry. Could you explain this better, please?
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Old Dec 27, 19, 1:59 am
  #3  
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Sorry, I meant to say I had 3 tickets:
1 with turkish, xxx-ist-osl // txl-ist-xxx
1 with norwegian, osl-cdg
1 with air France, cdg-txl

But I was denied boarding by TK for my flight from Istanbul to Oslo because visa issues I mentioned in my original post.
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Old Dec 27, 19, 2:09 am
  #4  
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I am from a Schengen country so not an expert, but this was discussed quite a few times on FT that the first entry must be through a country that issued a visa (FR in your case). Any subsequent entry may be through any Schengen country. If this was your first thip on a new visa, TK was right (IMHO).
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Old Dec 27, 19, 3:04 am
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Originally Posted by a4phoenix View Post
1. Am I wrong thinking that I could use my Schengen visa to enter any Schengen country? ( I was planning to spend most of my time in France)
It depends.

In theory, you are right, as per EU guidance

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/wh...ow_to_apply_en

You must lodge the application for a Schengen visa at the Consulate of the country that you intend to visit, or – if you intend to visit more than one Schengen State, the Consulate of the country where you will spend the longest period.

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/si...estions_en.pdf

As a general rule you may cross any Schengen border with visa issued by any Schengen country.


But it is true that Schengen visas can be issued with limitations or TK may think you were trying to game the system (by asking for a visa to France but going to Norway, which is not allowed by the rules).

AFAIK there is a similar scheme to the EU261 regulation in Turkey, I will do a claim against TK for the irregular denied boarding (if your visa does not state any restriction) and ask for a refund and compensation.
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Old Dec 27, 19, 3:41 am
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Yes - it is not clear. Some sites say you are correct and yet other forums say you are not. Remember Norway is a Schengen country that is not part of the EU and therefore many people try to enter there as their first point of entry to claim refugee status under the guise that they are transiting to a Schengen country within the EU.

Timatic is not really clear here except it does say "Visa required for Norway" even though it is your transit point. Again, even Timatic does not specify that the visa can be issued by any Schengen country - it just says Norway.

There is also a list of countries where the visa is highly restirctive and only valid for the port of entry. You did not state your nationality. I ran the Timatic based on (CGK) Indonesian passport.

Last edited by davistev; Dec 27, 19 at 3:49 am
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Old Dec 27, 19, 5:23 am
  #7  
 
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OP, I believe that TK wrongly denied you boarding, especially since you had proof of same-day travel to France, confirming that it was really your main destination country. The agent's idea that with a French visa "you wouldn't be allowed entry in Oslo or anywhere else outside France" is simply false.
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Temedar is offline  
Old Dec 27, 19, 5:44 am
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Originally Posted by Temedar View Post
OP, I believe that TK wrongly denied you boarding, especially since you had proof of same-day travel to France, confirming that it was really your main destination country. The agent's idea that with a French visa "you wouldn't be allowed entry in Oslo or anywhere else outside France" is simply false.
I concur. The situation is not identical but is fundamentally akin to travelling e.g. CGK-AMS-CDG with perhaps an overnight layover in AMS. The OP would be gladly allowed into Schengen in AMS and also allowed to leave the airport as long as they had a valid Schengen visa. Because of the unusual/broken-up itinerary the OP might have to answer a few extra questions at the border, proving financial means for the trip and demonstrating one is a bona fide visitor who will return back to the country of origin, but the formal requirements for entry were certainly satisfied. And whether the formal requirements are satisfied is the only thing an airline should and can check.
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LiHS is offline  
Old Dec 27, 19, 6:01 am
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Definitely a wrongly denied boarding assuming you have a normal tourist visa. You should be able to enter schengen in any of the countries without any issues.
The only time I was questioned was at the ARN immigration on a fresh Portuguese visa, asking why I didn't I used it first to Portugal. I've explained that the trip was cancelled last minute and was let through without other questions.
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Old Dec 27, 19, 7:20 am
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I went to Norway two times this year with a French Schengen visa. I was on my second year of this visa with previous France entries. I had no problem.

I am a tour leader for Turkish groups who travels with Schengen visas.

In july, on my first group, there was a young woman who travelled with Spanish Schengen visa without a previous Spain or any other entry. She had problems at the police control. Border police questioned her Spanish visa. She said that she planned to travel Madrid but then decided to join her parents for this travel as her business trip to Madrid was delayed. She was asked to show details of her cancelled Madrid trip. Flight details, hotel reservation etc. She contacted her office for these details. Norwegian border police checked these documents and contacted to Spanish border police. They let her pass after the approval of Spanish authorities.

IMO, passengers were denied entry in some cases and had to return to Istanbul. That is why you were denied boarding. TK doesnt want any risky passenger on board.
rozy is offline  
Old Dec 27, 19, 7:50 am
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Thank you very much for all of your reply.

So I guess they do a stricter check now at the border.
OTOH, I do have a valid airplane ticket to Paris and prepaid hotel reservations in Paris so I was prepared for any questioning. No remarks on my French tourist multiple entry visa (just blank. My German Schengen tourist visa had ' not good for work' )

davistev i am travelling with Indonesian passport so your search is valid for me too - nice observations/guess

On the bright side, my border entry in CDG was very smooth without any questions.

Any suggestions on how I should try 'claim' my extra cost from TK? Might want to do it after the holiday.
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a4phoenix is offline  
Old Dec 27, 19, 8:05 am
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Originally Posted by a4phoenix View Post
...

Any suggestions on how I should try 'claim' my extra cost from TK? Might want to do it after the holiday.
Before everything else, I recommend you to check your return part of your trip. As you had to skip one segment, your return segments could be cancelled by TK.
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Old Dec 27, 19, 8:15 am
  #13  
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It is logical that you should have to use the visa in the country that issued it, at least the first time. Otherwise, why not apply for the visa with the country you knew you would be visiting? Harder to get?
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Old Dec 27, 19, 8:27 am
  #14  
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Originally Posted by LiHS View Post
I concur. The situation is not identical but is fundamentally akin to travelling e.g. CGK-AMS-CDG with perhaps an overnight layover in AMS. The OP would be gladly allowed into Schengen in AMS and also allowed to leave the airport as long as they had a valid Schengen visa. Because of the unusual/broken-up itinerary the OP might have to answer a few extra questions at the border, proving financial means for the trip and demonstrating one is a bona fide visitor who will return back to the country of origin, but the formal requirements for entry were certainly satisfied. And whether the formal requirements are satisfied is the only thing an airline should and can check.
Carriers are not limited by the "formal" requirements. Indeed many will quite properly deny boarding when they experience border problems for their passengers which may involve a foreign government's interpretation of its own rules.

In this case, we do not know OP's nationality, country issuing passport, or where he originated. The use of "XXX" deprives him and anybody else of the ability to properly enter data into TIMATIC (which is what the TK agent would have seen)
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Old Dec 27, 19, 8:44 am
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post

In this case, we do not know OP's nationality, country issuing passport, or where he originated. The use of "XXX" deprives him and anybody else of the ability to properly enter data into TIMATIC (which is what the TK agent would have seen)
Yes, it does appear to be a Flyertalk "thing" to ask very specific questions and deliberately omit relevant details. i.e. seek specific personalised answers and not something a bit broader that might help others...

Even if the denied boarding occurred in IST, the boarding pass to OSL really shouldn't have been issued at XXX without a visa check.

But good luck to the OP in getting compensation and, as others have mentioned, make sure the return ticket is still valid after the "no-show".
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