Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Travel&Dining > Travel Safety/Security > Checkpoints and Borders Policy Debate
Reload this Page >

Facial Recognition Is Coming to the TSA Security Checkpoints Lanes

Facial Recognition Is Coming to the TSA Security Checkpoints Lanes

Old Oct 16, 2018, 6:53 pm
  #1  
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,474
Facial Recognition Is Coming to the TSA Security Checkpoints Lanes

Bloomberg Technology:
Facial Recognition Is Coming to an Airport Security Lane Near You

<snip>

The Transportation Security Administration on Monday unveiled a multistep plan to make increased use of facial recognition and other biometric identification tools to improve accuracy and speed wait times.

TSA, which has tested biometric systems in Los Angeles and Atlanta, will start using the technology on international travelers entering and leaving the U.S. and then expand to tests on domestic passengers enrolled in the agency’s PreCheck program, according to a 23-page report outlining TSA’s plans.

<snip>

Airline passengers must show proof of identification before entering a TSA screening lane along with their boarding pass. This allows TSA to check names against terrorist watch lists and verify identities of passengers. Using facial-recognition software or fingerprints would replace those manual checks and are seen as less prone to fraud.

<snip>
TWA884 is offline  
Old Oct 17, 2018, 8:21 pm
  #2  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: IAD/DCA
Posts: 31,805
they are already using it at least at immigration, as seen from news articles

Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Oct 18, 2018 at 9:16 am
Kagehitokiri is offline  
Old Oct 18, 2018, 1:17 am
  #3  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by Kagehitokiri
they are already using it at least at immigration, as seen from news articles about catching people using passports belonging to other people
And FRT is also making lots of false negatives during the FRT matching process. This is in large part why where FRT goes into place for automated border control kiosks, the variance in time to clear immigration control has become so much more extreme than it used to be. With TSA PreCheck using FRT to see who qualifies for PreCheck screening, there will be false negatives and that will make a mess of things for the many passengers who will get denied PreCheck for reasons related to FRT matching being anything but 100% correct.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Dec 4, 2022, 3:41 pm
  #4  
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,474
TSA now wants to scan your face at security. Here are your rights.

In The Washington Post:

TSA now wants to scan your face at security. Here are your rights.
***
The Transportation Security Administration has been quietly testing controversial facial recognition technology for passenger screening at 16 major domestic airports — from Washington to Los Angeles — and hopes to expand it across the United States as soon as next year. Kiosks with cameras are doing a job that used to be completed by humans: checking the photos on travelers’ IDs to make sure they’re not impostors.

***
No, you don’t have to participate in facial recognition at the airport. Whether you’ll feel like you have a real choice is a separate question.

***

“None of this facial recognition technology is mandated,” said Lim. “Those who do not feel comfortable will still have to present their ID — but they can tell the officer that they do not want their photo taken, and the officer will turn off the live camera.” There are also supposed to be signs around informing you of your rights.

But does it mean you’ll get moved to a slow line, get an extra pat down, or a mark on your record? “You should have no derogatory experience based on you exercising your right,” said Lim. If you suspect that has happened, the TSA says you should ask to speak to a manager.

***
A version of this article on Yahoo! News, not behind a paywall.
TWA884 is offline  
Old Dec 4, 2022, 7:59 pm
  #5  
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: on the path to perdition
Programs: Delta, United
Posts: 4,777
I posted in another site I would not let the TSA photograph my upturned middle finger.

That said, how are PAX going to know the camera is turned off?
Spiff and chollie like this.
FlyingUnderTheRadar is offline  
Old Dec 5, 2022, 10:47 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Programs: AA Gold AAdvantage Elite, Rapids Reward
Posts: 38,293
Uh-oh! Here we go again!

I don't think they like that. They don't like take a picture. This is very bad! This is so embarrassing!
N830MH is offline  
Old Dec 5, 2022, 1:56 pm
  #7  
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: New York
Programs: UA Silver, Marriott LTPP, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,060
I don't really have a problem with the concept, so long that the TSA's assertion is validated that 1. they are not building a nationwide biometric facial ID database and 2. that images are generally deleted immediately after use (compare ID + live photo, give result to TSO, when TSO hits next for the next person data is gone). For #1, the TSA seems to have taken pains (judging by prior documentation on CAT, not sure about CAT2) to make sure it does work offline, including a minimum amount for the solution to work solely on battery power and to have standard proprietary batteries.

(Also for anyone with objection to being in a facial ID database - I have bad news if you have a US passport or US visa, you already are. Some states even send all drivers license images to the FBI biometric database. I will play devil's advocate and say that the statistic is 37% of Americans have a valid/unexpired passport, it's more like 57% for valid passport ever, but still probably under 50% for images useful for facial recognition based on how old they are.)

I do hear the concerns in that it may be potentially discriminatory and that things often start with an opt out, then become mandatory.

Personally, having my fingerprints read for multiple purposes (including GE/NEXUS), my photo in the federal government's possession from my passport and GE/NEXUS - I don't see an automated local solution like this adding to any privacy issues beyond what I have already provided. So I don't object to it.
phltraveler is online now  
Old Dec 5, 2022, 10:06 pm
  #8  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: GM on VX, UA, AA, HA, AS, SY; Budget Fastbreak
Posts: 27,290
I like the idea of a traveler who wants to complain to a tsa manager - at an airport! Pax don’t always have the time to waste on this even when it’s a very bad tsa experience. If the flight is boarding in 30 min, do we want to waste potential 20 minutes to complain to a manager?

I can’t see how we really have a choice at a domestic airport. Private flyers can avoid. I can imagine computer glitches just lagging big time on the photos. Let’s not forget about hackers and rogue employees playing around with the photos and the name matches.
gaobest is offline  
Old Dec 6, 2022, 9:16 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: enjoyed being warm spit for a few years on CO/UA but now nothing :(
Posts: 2,497
yes to your first point.

But not the second. The system "purportedly" does not compare to central database but only locally to the ID presented and the face in front of the camera. Since the comparison data is only what is presented right there at the TDC station there should be no system lag nor ability for hackers to interfere nor for someone to "play around" with the photos and name matches.

"Purportedly" because in TSA does have access to central biometric databases which include FRT data and I do not trust them anymore than I can throw an elephant. And we know during this pilot phase they are keeping collected data to evaluate accuracy of the system. It is no tech challenge at all for them to move to doing a triple check of the local data against central data.
Section 107 is offline  
Old Dec 8, 2022, 6:22 pm
  #10  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
I push back against airlines in the US wanting to subject me to biometric boarding.

I push back against CBP questioning why I want out of biometric boarding/exit when flying out of my country.

In the same vein as the above, I will push back against TSA trying to subject me to CAT-2/biometric travel document checks.

I remain able and willing to miss flights in order to stand my ground within the rules — which is probably why it’s usually the rule-denying/misinformed screeners and border control types who end up frustrated with me at times and end up too eager to try to get me on my way so they can instead go get on other people’s cases. This CAT-2 thing is just another aspect of TSA TDCs that will probably play out for me in the same way as with CAT(-1), “requirements” for government-issued photo ID, and TSA’s name games at the TDC stations.
Spiff likes this.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Dec 8, 2022, 9:14 pm
  #11  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by Section 107
yes to your first point.

But not the second. The system "purportedly" does not compare to central database but only locally to the ID presented and the face in front of the camera. Since the comparison data is only what is presented right there at the TDC station there should be no system lag nor ability for hackers to interfere nor for someone to "play around" with the photos and name matches.

"Purportedly" because in TSA does have access to central biometric databases which include FRT data and I do not trust them anymore than I can throw an elephant. And we know during this pilot phase they are keeping collected data to evaluate accuracy of the system. It is no tech challenge at all for them to move to doing a triple check of the local data against central data.
Those familiar with what a”super query” is and how DHS uses super queries soon know that centralized database or not, government databases or commercial, the outcomes for the travelers subject to these checks will be just about the same.

As with many things in the government, follow the money — whether it’s going toward federal employment arrangements or federal government contractors and contracts — has long been a way to know what is going on in the space and will be going on:

https://sam.gov/opp/b63544504a724304...debdcea19/view

Next Generation Credential Authentication Technology (CAT2)

info alert
Note: There have been new actions to this contract opportunity. To view the most recent action, please click here.
That’s from before Labor Day this year.
Spiff likes this.
GUWonder is offline  
Old Dec 10, 2022, 9:06 am
  #12  
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,712
Serious question for you guys.

I haven't really given this issue much thought, but are you here mostly opposed to the potential abuse of facial recognition software only with the US Gov't? Or, are you opposed to it globally? In other words, during my recent travels CDG, DUB and HKG used some form of facial recognition. Are you guys ok with it, say, in Europe but just not in the US?
minhaoxue likes this.
Visconti is offline  
Old Dec 10, 2022, 9:34 am
  #13  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,103
Originally Posted by Visconti
I haven't really given this issue much thought, but are you here mostly opposed to the potential abuse of facial recognition software only with the US Gov't? Or, are you opposed to it globally? In other words, during my recent travels CDG, DUB and HKG used some form of facial recognition. Are you guys ok with it, say, in Europe but just not in the US?
Since the TSA doesn't ask to scan my face at foreign airports, I oppose the FRT where it's relevant and how its legally possible for me to do so. And while my opposition to FRT against travelers is global on principle too, my opposition sort of scales with the volume of my tax contributions to a jurisdiction and the relevance of a place as a global beacon in terms of values. So even if the UST/IRS were to zero-out all my future potential tax liabilities and return most of my prior contributions, I would still be opposing the TSA's FRT use.
Spiff and chollie like this.

Last edited by GUWonder; Dec 10, 2022 at 9:42 am
GUWonder is offline  
Old Dec 11, 2022, 5:23 pm
  #14  
Moderator: Smoking Lounge; FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: Lifetime (for now) Gold MM, HH Gold, Giving Tootsie Pops to UA employees, & a retired hockey goalie
Posts: 28,866
Maybe folks should start wearing this when traveling thru airports


Spiff, Rare, Xyzzy and 1 others like this.
goalie is offline  
Old Dec 11, 2022, 6:05 pm
  #15  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: BLI or CLT
Programs: The usual suspects
Posts: 1,895
We know from past experience that of course the TSA will find ways to misuse FRT. Images will be retained for "quality control" purposes, then misused by some employees to mock others. Passengers who don't properly bow down the TSA "authorities" will be harassed, penalized and forced to miss flights for TSA's entertainment purposes. Well connected contractors will make money on the equipment sales. Then when that particular well has dried up (passed the shortest possible "useful life time"), the new and improved equipment will appear for purchase.

Why would this particular effort be any different from past "security enhancements"?
Spiff and chollie like this.
onlyairfare is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.