lonelycrowd

I've already mentioned a bit about my experiences since more-or-less relocating to Istanbul on another thread that was more focused on the CBP side of things, but I can also vouch for the observation that the SSSS designation is associated with flying through Istanbul and seems to wear off sooner or later - in my case it was replaced with PreCheck on my third flight after what I thought was a very rough set of interviews with CBP upon return (still wondering if I'm the only one here getting Immigration Advisory Program visits on EU layovers...). Perhaps it wears off faster for me since I'm a paid PreCheck member? On subsequent US visits I've received SSSS on the first US flight, but all remaining flights were Pre. One might think that my risk score wouldn't change from SSSS to Pre overnight in a rationally-designed system - but it's always either/or and I never get directed to the general lane!

So, yes, it should wear off for you too eventually, and you will get your PreCheck back. I actually think it's still a good act of civic participation to file for redress in these situations just so that DHS hears the message that the current situation is really irritating for Istanbul's American community and those who visit us, but if you read the comments in some of the NY Times articles about efforts to interdict jihadists it feels like most of our countrymen aren't terribly sympathetic with our plight...

Ari

It is truly interesting to see how this thread has progressed in the last 5-6 months and how travel to Turkey is a risk for those of us who want to maintain quick transit through airports.

Who's rolling their eyes now?

Mandafly

I have carefully taken note of this, as often a good option for my frequent travel to the African continent is on Turkish Airlines via Istanbul, though I hadn't selected it yet for various reasons. I've heard very good things about the airline and several of my heavy-traveling friends swear by them. But I think I'll steer clear for a while: a layover in IST, rather than an actual day or more in the city, might not trigger the blacklist, but why take the chance? Traveling 25% of the year necessitates making it as pleasant and easy as possible.

OP, I hope the curSSSSe has lifted by now!

Ari

A "layover" is (by definition) more than 24 hours. You mean a connection (less than 24 hours) which should not trigger SSSS. At least we have not seen any reports of SSSS from connections in IST.

Mandafly

Thanks for the response. Interesting that our understanding of the term is so different, as I've always defined layover exactly the opposite of that, the layover is a shorter pause in travel while a stopover is the longer stay. Layover doesn't seem to be in the FT glossary but wikipedia calls it less than 24 hours. Anyway, I think you're right that a connection through IST probably wouldn't trigger it. But I still feel like I'd rather not risk it, there are other decent route options.

GUWonder

A stop/stopover is 24 hours or more. A connection, or layover for some, is less than 24 hours.

X indicators on electronic tickets/ticketed PNRs for segments involving IST and other Turkish airports seem to be less problematic than O indicators for such. Whether an overnighting X designator increases the odds of a problem or not, not sure at this point. I do have a strong suspicion that access to Turkey's evisa and other visa data is not limited to just the Turkish government.

Ari

I probably shouldn't post so late at night after using sleep aids.

Stopover is what I meant, not layover. I believe X/ and O/ are what the CBP computer look at. Layover is a vague term.

I wonder what the Turkish Ambassador has to say about all this?!?

GUWonder

The following is unlikely to be news to you; but from what I've been told, the IST O-tied ESL listings giving rise to <SSSS> boarding passes are not a product of just CBP's processing of PNRs.

Whether asked of the Turkish Ambassador to the U.S. or asked of other Turkish officials, not sure how they would respond publicly about the matter.

iahphx

FWIW, we spent a day and a half in IST. It was an enjoyable visit, but I would not advise such a layover if it is going to trigger SSSS harassment. As mentioned, the fact that we continued on to DAR (we just changed planes there for JNB) might be the problem. DAR is also a significant tourist city, but perhaps the TSA does not realize this. Are there reports of folks getting SSSS after a layover in IST on their way to, say, India?

Meanwhile, my family is now on domestic check-in three with SSSS still going strong. I'm home tomorrow, and I'll grab our passports and fill out the online form. I figure somebody should complain about this silliness. Since we fly often, and have known traveler numbers, I'll be a good test case for how long it takes to get the status removed.

GUWonder

The <SSSS> probably has way less to do with DAR/Zanzibar than with IST or something else.

iahphx

Yeah, but unless all Americans who visit IST are now SSSS'ed -- which I highly doubt -- there has to be something about my itinerary that triggered the TSA algorithm. I can't believe that heading to any country other than the USA would trigger this. Like what if my next stop had been TLV?

It seems pretty clear that it's either the short duration of my stay or my onward destination(s) that's triggered the <SSSS>.

GUWonder

You may want to more completely consider that probabilities greater than zero but way less than one do exist in these contexts.

It seems pretty clear to me that the <SSSS> is highly unlikely to have to do with DAR; rather it is that the probability of getting <SSSS> skyrockets when the USG notes O-designated ticket coupons for Turkish airporrs and use of a visa of some sort while passenger is not flying a simple return ticket paid for directly by the passenger using a credit card whose US credit history info lines up perfectly and extensively for the passengers on the PNR.

iahphx

So you think the fact that it was an award ticket made the difference? My USA credit card number was in the PNRs for the taxes (they were 3 separate PNRs, one with my younger daughter in it who has not been SSSS'ed, because we took the mileage out of 3 different accounts).

If any brain cells were deployed by TSA, they might have noticed that I "bought" the tickets something like 9 months in advance (I was ticketing a Star Alliance routing right before US Airways switched to Oneworld). Something tells me that folks bent on global jihad are not likely to book award reservations many months in advance and travel with their families. Especially when those families have decades of non-jihad travel and have their known traveler numbers in their profile.

Moreover, before travel, I actually put my and my wife's UA 1K numbers into our PNRs, hoping perhaps it might help us with any flight irregularities and such. So obviously having both a known travel number and high elite status is no protection from being SSSS'ed on an IST stopover.

EDIT: By the way, do jihadists ever fly biz class with their families, much less on award tickets? If so, they must have plenty of spare time on their hands -- and extensive frequent flyer redemption training -- because it sure wasn't easy putting together this itinerary, especially at X-mas time (I sure wasn't intentionally transiting DAR -- it is what was available from IST to JNB). You would think there would be much easier ways to reap mayhem.

Ari

Something must be wrong with me the past couple of days. CBP is not responsible for the ESL; the GAO report lays out the process.

GUWonder

TSA doesn't determine ESL inclusion; nor does TSA remove people from
ESL listing -- a driver for some <SSSS> boarding passes -- although some are exempted from <SSSS> screening by the TSA even when flagged for <SSSS>.

The problem with automated scoring systems for inclusion, temporary or otherwise, on blacklists is that intelligent outcomes considering broader factors aren't necessarily all institutionalized for automated consideration too, whether or not there is some manual review pre or post listing.