Jun 23, 2014, 10:17 pm
Last edit by: Boraxo
US/Canadian-issued ABTC can only be used to access the APEC/Crew/Diplomat lane. It does not replace/waive any visa requirements. Chinese embassy webpages mentioning visa not being required is for ABTC with CHN endorsed on the back. No US/Canadian-issued ABTC will have that endorsement.
The button to renew your US/Canadian ABTC will appear in your profile 30 days before the card expiration date.
Locations confirmed up and running:
AUS
BOS (Logan) only one of the two signature pads was working (late nov 2014)
BOS (Logan) still only 1 signature panel working, and a bit of confusion, but it all worked out (Jan 2015)
CVG (Minneola Pike)
EWR
IAD signature capture working in GE enrollment center; walk-in accepted after appointments accommodated - I was in the office for less than two minutes
IAH (outside security in E, no word on inside security GE office yet)
JFK (walk-in accepted; entrance directly across from Central Diner on arrivals level, T-4)
LAS
LAX
Long Beach, CA (downtown CBP Seaport offices, not LGB airport); posted as No Walk In, but may accommodate just the signature capture
MIA
MCO
ORD
PHX (Terminal 4, behind #6 baggage carousel)
SEA (Nexus office)
SFO (walk-in)
TUS (walk-in accepted)
Washington, DC/Reagan Bldg. walked in, only person there, signature captured, walked out, all within 5 minutes
YYZ (Nexus office)
YVR (Nexus office)
Usage Experience Updates:
BKK - 11/11/14 - success, 03/19/17 - success, 05/10/17 - success
CGK - 02/20/15 - denied (exit), 05/10/17 - success (exit), 08/20/17 - success (entry)
CRK - 10/28/16 - success, but only 30 days, not 59 days for no-endorsement US issued ABTC.
CTU - 03/18/16 - denied -(APAC lane has limited hours)
CUN - 12/30/17 & 12/27/19 - success (with family) but difficult to enter express lane due to pushback from line monitor
DMK - 9/20/17 inbound - success, had to go under lane ropes; use Official/Diplomatic, not Crew. No APEC markings.
DPS - 03/08/15 - success but with pushback (exit)
GMP - 09/18/14 - success, 03/18/15 - success (arrival)
HKG - 09/21/14 - success, 02/28/15 - success, 02/29/15 - success (exit), 3/18/17 success, 3/19/17 - success (exit)
HKT - 12/23 - success on entry - sign says +1 allowed and "THA" endorsement required, but didn't even check the back of card. On departure the APEC lane was not staffed
HND - 07/30/14, 03/30/23 - success - lane in clearly marked
ICN - 09/13/14 - success, 03/24/25 - success (departure)
KUL - 03/10/16 - success
MEX - 06/28/15 - success, 7/11/17 - success
MNL - 11/27/2015 - success (T1) (business visa not necessary for U.S. citizens) 59 days (depends on agent training. Most give 59, some give only 30, (Oct 2018))
NRT - 12/1/2014 - success both inbound and outbound immigration (visa not needed); 9/25/17 - inbound success
PEK - 07/25/14 - success (T3)
POM - 11/01/15 - denied, PNG immigration has a sign saying "only endorsed ABTC cards"
PVG - 07/24/14 - success (T2)
PVR - 11/2018, 4/2021 success (with family),4/2023 fail
SGN - 09/04/2014 - success (visa on arrival), 02/15/2017 - denied (visa on arrival)
SHA - 11/10/2014 - success
SJD - 6/2017 & 6/2018 - success (with family)
SIN - 2/3/2016 - denied, 5/3/2017 - success; 9/16/17 - success at APEC lane
TPE - 07/24/14 - success (T2), 9/30 - success (T1), 10/12 - Denied (T2), 02/24/2015 - success (T1), 5/11 & 5/13 - success (T1)
YUL - 11/2014 - success inbound (repeatedly into 2016 via dip line)
YVR - 06/2015 - success inbound
YYZ - 07/2016 - Success inbound
SCL - 04/02/2017 - Success inbound
LIM - 12/04/2017 - Success inbound
China land crossings from HK:
Lo Wu, Lok Ma Chau, Huanggang, Shenzhen Bay - 09/29/14 reported - success
China Train crossings from HK:
Dongguan and Guangzhou - 09/29/14 reported - success
Hung Hom (Hong Kong's International Train Station) - 04/30/15 - success in both directions
China Seaports from HK/Macau:
Shekou, Zhongshan, Zhuhai and Baoan and and Macau/China ferry terminal in Hong Kong - 09/29/14 reported - success
[On all above China-HK crossings look, to use ABTC to enter/exit China, look for the "Special" counters]
For CGK: Go to line marked 3 on left side just before main immigration hall. If you get to line in main hall you've gone too far. Do not use crew line.
Locations confirmed up and running:
AUS
BOS (Logan) only one of the two signature pads was working (late nov 2014)
BOS (Logan) still only 1 signature panel working, and a bit of confusion, but it all worked out (Jan 2015)
CVG (Minneola Pike)
EWR
IAD signature capture working in GE enrollment center; walk-in accepted after appointments accommodated - I was in the office for less than two minutes
IAH (outside security in E, no word on inside security GE office yet)
JFK (walk-in accepted; entrance directly across from Central Diner on arrivals level, T-4)
LAS
LAX
Long Beach, CA (downtown CBP Seaport offices, not LGB airport); posted as No Walk In, but may accommodate just the signature capture
MIA
MCO
ORD
PHX (Terminal 4, behind #6 baggage carousel)
SEA (Nexus office)
SFO (walk-in)
TUS (walk-in accepted)
Washington, DC/Reagan Bldg. walked in, only person there, signature captured, walked out, all within 5 minutes
YYZ (Nexus office)
YVR (Nexus office)
Usage Experience Updates:
BKK - 11/11/14 - success, 03/19/17 - success, 05/10/17 - success
CGK - 02/20/15 - denied (exit), 05/10/17 - success (exit), 08/20/17 - success (entry)
CRK - 10/28/16 - success, but only 30 days, not 59 days for no-endorsement US issued ABTC.
CTU - 03/18/16 - denied -(APAC lane has limited hours)
CUN - 12/30/17 & 12/27/19 - success (with family) but difficult to enter express lane due to pushback from line monitor
DMK - 9/20/17 inbound - success, had to go under lane ropes; use Official/Diplomatic, not Crew. No APEC markings.
DPS - 03/08/15 - success but with pushback (exit)
GMP - 09/18/14 - success, 03/18/15 - success (arrival)
HKG - 09/21/14 - success, 02/28/15 - success, 02/29/15 - success (exit), 3/18/17 success, 3/19/17 - success (exit)
HKT - 12/23 - success on entry - sign says +1 allowed and "THA" endorsement required, but didn't even check the back of card. On departure the APEC lane was not staffed
HND - 07/30/14, 03/30/23 - success - lane in clearly marked
ICN - 09/13/14 - success, 03/24/25 - success (departure)
KUL - 03/10/16 - success
MEX - 06/28/15 - success, 7/11/17 - success
MNL - 11/27/2015 - success (T1) (business visa not necessary for U.S. citizens) 59 days (depends on agent training. Most give 59, some give only 30, (Oct 2018))
NRT - 12/1/2014 - success both inbound and outbound immigration (visa not needed); 9/25/17 - inbound success
PEK - 07/25/14 - success (T3)
POM - 11/01/15 - denied, PNG immigration has a sign saying "only endorsed ABTC cards"
PVG - 07/24/14 - success (T2)
PVR - 11/2018, 4/2021 success (with family),4/2023 fail
SGN - 09/04/2014 - success (visa on arrival), 02/15/2017 - denied (visa on arrival)
SHA - 11/10/2014 - success
SJD - 6/2017 & 6/2018 - success (with family)
SIN - 2/3/2016 - denied, 5/3/2017 - success; 9/16/17 - success at APEC lane
TPE - 07/24/14 - success (T2), 9/30 - success (T1), 10/12 - Denied (T2), 02/24/2015 - success (T1), 5/11 & 5/13 - success (T1)
YUL - 11/2014 - success inbound (repeatedly into 2016 via dip line)
YVR - 06/2015 - success inbound
YYZ - 07/2016 - Success inbound
SCL - 04/02/2017 - Success inbound
LIM - 12/04/2017 - Success inbound
China land crossings from HK:
Lo Wu, Lok Ma Chau, Huanggang, Shenzhen Bay - 09/29/14 reported - success
China Train crossings from HK:
Dongguan and Guangzhou - 09/29/14 reported - success
Hung Hom (Hong Kong's International Train Station) - 04/30/15 - success in both directions
China Seaports from HK/Macau:
Shekou, Zhongshan, Zhuhai and Baoan and and Macau/China ferry terminal in Hong Kong - 09/29/14 reported - success
[On all above China-HK crossings look, to use ABTC to enter/exit China, look for the "Special" counters]
For CGK: Go to line marked 3 on left side just before main immigration hall. If you get to line in main hall you've gone too far. Do not use crew line.
US/Canadian Issued APEC Business Travel Card (ABTC): Updates, Experiences, Q&A
Mar 23, 2018, 10:26 pm
#1426
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 177
A "work" visa may be required if you are going to "work".
A business visa is NOT required if you are going for "business", for stays of up to 180 days.
"Business" and "work" are very distinct terms when related to immigration. In a very (very!) simplistic sense, if you are not being paid locally, then you are in the country for "business".
A business visa is NOT required if you are going for "business", for stays of up to 180 days.
"Business" and "work" are very distinct terms when related to immigration. In a very (very!) simplistic sense, if you are not being paid locally, then you are in the country for "business".
You can see the wording of the regs in the post above:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29559486-post1431.html
Mar 23, 2018, 10:44 pm
#1427
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE (*A Gold), Bonvoy Platinum Elite, Hilton Gold, Amex Platinum / AP Reserve, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 5,691
- look for ways to grow your business,
- invest or
- advance your business relationships.
Just to clarify for other readers, under Canadian regulations, 'business' is 'work' -- however, business activities are a subset of work that is exempted from the requirement to obtain a work permit.
You can see the wording of the regs in the post above:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29559486-post1431.html
You can see the wording of the regs in the post above:
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29559486-post1431.html
Careful... from the very post you linked to:
Business visitors
- 187 (1) For the purposes of paragraph 186(a), a business visitor to Canada is a foreign national who is described in subsection (2) or who seeks to engage in international business activities in Canada without directly entering the Canadian labour market.
Mar 23, 2018, 11:06 pm
#1428
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 177
<snip>
Careful... from the very post you linked to:
You're not "working" if you don't enter the labour market. As I mention above, any sort of business-related activity that doesn't eliminate a Canadian's ability to fill that employment position is eligible for entry as a business visitor. As soon as you're doing "work," you're taking a job from a Canadian and that's a no-no.
Careful... from the very post you linked to:
You're not "working" if you don't enter the labour market. As I mention above, any sort of business-related activity that doesn't eliminate a Canadian's ability to fill that employment position is eligible for entry as a business visitor. As soon as you're doing "work," you're taking a job from a Canadian and that's a no-no.
Work permit
- 8 (1) A foreign national may not enter Canada to work without first obtaining a work permit.
- Exception
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply to a foreign national who is authorized under section 186 to work in Canada without a work permit. ..
It's simply a form of work that's allowed without permit, because the places of profit and headquarters are outside Canada, and because it doesn't effect the labor market.
It's mostly semantics, but it's how the Canadians choose to make their definitions.
I agree that when speaking to the typical border guard or immigration booth officer it's best to avoid the word "work" or similar terminology, as his/her knowledge of the regulations may not be deep.
And that imagery of "hands in pocket" is a useful tip to stay away from difficult situations.
Mar 24, 2018, 4:42 pm
#1429
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: NYC
Programs: AA 2MM, Bonvoy LTT, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,636
Was that a response to me? If so, I'm not sure what you're getting at.
The fact that business visitors should bring along documentation in case it's requested by a CBSA officer doesn't really change the government guidance or regulations above (in fact, it was even included in the guidance). It also doesn't mean that every person who wants to enter a Canadian airport or immigration booth through the APEC lane needs to "check applicable trade agreements ... or claim you are visa exempt due to NAFTA", or will automatically be subjected to a rubber-gloves-level examination of "documentary evidence ... such as contract/RFP/invite."
Hence, why I said the advice was over-complicating the issue.
The fact that business visitors should bring along documentation in case it's requested by a CBSA officer doesn't really change the government guidance or regulations above (in fact, it was even included in the guidance). It also doesn't mean that every person who wants to enter a Canadian airport or immigration booth through the APEC lane needs to "check applicable trade agreements ... or claim you are visa exempt due to NAFTA", or will automatically be subjected to a rubber-gloves-level examination of "documentary evidence ... such as contract/RFP/invite."
Hence, why I said the advice was over-complicating the issue.
Actually, I'm not certain that's great advice. Business visitors are just that -- visitors. They're not supposed to close deals, sign contracts, or engage in anything that would ordinarily require an employed Canadian. From the CBSA's website, these are some activities which are routinely conducted by business visitors:
As a very knowledgeable immigration lawyer once told me, a business visitor must be able to conduct all activities while in the host country with his "hands in his pocket." That means no exchanging of payment, no signing of contracts, no use of tools, etc etc. It's a great rule of thumb which has helped me and my colleagues (both American and Canadian) satisfy countless border guard agents' questions over the years. The words "contractor," "consultant," and "training" are immediate red flags because they imply that the visitor is being paid for his presence during the visit.
Careful... from the very post you linked to:
You're not "working" if you don't enter the labour market. As I mention above, any sort of business-related activity that doesn't eliminate a Canadian's ability to fill that employment position is eligible for entry as a business visitor. As soon as you're doing "work," you're taking a job from a Canadian and that's a no-no.
As a very knowledgeable immigration lawyer once told me, a business visitor must be able to conduct all activities while in the host country with his "hands in his pocket." That means no exchanging of payment, no signing of contracts, no use of tools, etc etc. It's a great rule of thumb which has helped me and my colleagues (both American and Canadian) satisfy countless border guard agents' questions over the years. The words "contractor," "consultant," and "training" are immediate red flags because they imply that the visitor is being paid for his presence during the visit.
Careful... from the very post you linked to:
You're not "working" if you don't enter the labour market. As I mention above, any sort of business-related activity that doesn't eliminate a Canadian's ability to fill that employment position is eligible for entry as a business visitor. As soon as you're doing "work," you're taking a job from a Canadian and that's a no-no.
All I'm saying is bring evidence to support the reason for your business visit (whether it is contract/SoW/names of people you are meeting/ticket showing you are attending trade conferences etc). This applies whether you are visiting Canada or any other country where you are a foreigner.
It would not be a pleasant experience if you show up at immigration (wherther it is CBP/CBSA/UK Border Force/Bundespolizei etc) as a foreigner stating you are here for business and then IF they decide to ask for more details and you can't produce any evidence to backup your stated reason for visit.
Mar 24, 2018, 8:37 pm
#1430
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth. Residency:HKG formerly:YYZ
Programs: CX, DL, Nexus/GE, APEC
Posts: 10,687
In regards to over complicating it....I'm not the one responding with quotes to various applicable Canadian regulations/acts.
All I'm saying is bring evidence to support the reason for your business visit (whether it is contract/SoW/names of people you are meeting/ticket showing you are attending trade conferences etc). This applies whether you are visiting Canada or any other country where you are a foreigner.
It would not be a pleasant experience if you show up at immigration (wherther it is CBP/CBSA/UK Border Force/Bundespolizei etc) as a foreigner stating you are here for business and then IF they decide to ask for more details and you can't produce any evidence to backup your stated reason for visit.
All I'm saying is bring evidence to support the reason for your business visit (whether it is contract/SoW/names of people you are meeting/ticket showing you are attending trade conferences etc). This applies whether you are visiting Canada or any other country where you are a foreigner.
It would not be a pleasant experience if you show up at immigration (wherther it is CBP/CBSA/UK Border Force/Bundespolizei etc) as a foreigner stating you are here for business and then IF they decide to ask for more details and you can't produce any evidence to backup your stated reason for visit.
It is easy for anyone to Google what is written and quote.
I believe the purpose and existence of FT is to share actual experiences.
Even with GE/Nexus as a Canadian I have always brought physical hard copies of evidence justifying my need to visit. I bring physical wedding and family reunion invitations as well. This applies when I am entering US/UK myself.
Mar 25, 2018, 5:24 am
#1431
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Based in Michigan, but I could be anywhere!
Programs: Hilton, American, Club Carlson, United, Marriott, Starwood
Posts: 409
Yes indeed.
It is easy for anyone to Google what is written and quote.
I believe the purpose and existence of FT is to share actual experiences.
Even with GE/Nexus as a Canadian I have always brought physical hard copies of evidence justifying my need to visit. I bring physical wedding and family reunion invitations as well. This applies when I am entering US/UK myself.
It is easy for anyone to Google what is written and quote.
I believe the purpose and existence of FT is to share actual experiences.
Even with GE/Nexus as a Canadian I have always brought physical hard copies of evidence justifying my need to visit. I bring physical wedding and family reunion invitations as well. This applies when I am entering US/UK myself.
Mar 25, 2018, 5:11 pm
#1432
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
Has been that way for quite some time. The second passport, however, is only good for two-years, correct? [So effectively 18-months since many countries require at least six-months validity at the time of entry.]
Apr 8, 2018, 5:00 pm
#1434
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
Couple of questions ... I have a new APEC card and am a US citizen
There are no countries listed on the back as "valid for travel to." That's normal for US citizens, right? Or does it get approved by certain countries?
I recently tried to use it in the crew line at CUN and was told I couldn't. I asked what line I could use it in and the woman told me any line for US citizens I've seen signs for it in MEX and SJD. Has anyone used it at CUN or other places in Mexico?
There are no countries listed on the back as "valid for travel to." That's normal for US citizens, right? Or does it get approved by certain countries?
I recently tried to use it in the crew line at CUN and was told I couldn't. I asked what line I could use it in and the woman told me any line for US citizens
I've seen signs for it in MEX and SJD. Has anyone used it at CUN or other places in Mexico?
Apr 8, 2018, 7:54 pm
#1435
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: LAX/TPE
Programs: United 1K, JAL Sapphire, SPG Lifetime Platinum, National Executive Elite, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 42,199
Couple of questions ... I have a new APEC card and am a US citizen
There are no countries listed on the back as "valid for travel to." That's normal for US citizens, right? Or does it get approved by certain countries?
I recently tried to use it in the crew line at CUN and was told I couldn't. I asked what line I could use it in and the woman told me any line for US citizens I've seen signs for it in MEX and SJD. Has anyone used it at CUN or other places in Mexico?
There are no countries listed on the back as "valid for travel to." That's normal for US citizens, right? Or does it get approved by certain countries?
I recently tried to use it in the crew line at CUN and was told I couldn't. I asked what line I could use it in and the woman told me any line for US citizens
I've seen signs for it in MEX and SJD. Has anyone used it at CUN or other places in Mexico?
Apr 8, 2018, 7:59 pm
#1436
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: SLC/HEL/Anywhere with a Beach
Programs: Marriott Ambassador; AA EXP 3MM; AS MVP, Hilton Gold, CH-47/UH-60/C-23/C-130 VET
Posts: 5,234
The lack of endorsements on the back only pertains to attempts to enter a country without a required visa - for example, China. You can use the card at any posted APEC counter. When at the airport, don't ask if you can use the card, just ask where the APEC counter is located and go there. Hand over the card with your passport and don't ask if it's OK to use.
I didn't ask. I didn't see any APEC signs at CUN and went to the empty crew line since that seemed to be the general guidance from what I had read. I handed over the card and passport and was told: "you can't use that here." When I asked if there was an APEC line, she told me any line, which obviously would defeat the purpose of expedited entry. Ultimately, she let me through and told me don't do it again.
Apr 9, 2018, 12:08 am
#1437
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco/Sydney
Programs: UA 1K/MM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Something, IHG Gold, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 8,156
In most airport it'll be explicitly signed as APEC. Sometimes it's the same line as the Diplomatic line, sometimes it is it's own line, sometimes it is the crew line - there's no single rule other than look or ask for "APEC".
Apr 9, 2018, 1:55 am
#1438
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: BKK/SEL/YQG
Posts: 2,543
I live in TH so I enter/exit at least 2-4 times a month and the last 2 years I haven't had any issue using my Canadian-issued card, but in the last 2 months, 3 times the immigration officer gave me a hassle for not having TH listed on the back so I wonder if they've had a directive to look closer at APEC cards, as 50% of the time they don't even look at the card and just hand it back. Even though I have a valid visa/work permit for TH, so am certainly not trying to enter visa-free with the card, they have said I cannot 'use it in Thailand' all three times they've eventually let me through. One required a bit of pushing back and telling them to check with a supervisor, since he handed me my passport back and said to go to the normal queues.
Apr 9, 2018, 9:13 am
#1439
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,631