Flyingfox

If you think your portions in the free world are "sad", you need to do some reading about North Korea. My God!

Flyingfox

Finally - someone with a thinking mind on this thread.

Swanhunter

Flyingfox I think you raise a very valid point. I did debate this issue very hard before deciding to go. North Korea is far from unique in having an oppressive human rights record - there are many other countries in the world which do not treat their citizens well, Myanmar and China being two examples that spring to mind. You are right that the money goes to the state, but many of us did also make a significant donation to an independent charity working there.

What is unique about the DPRK is the lack of contact with the outside world - many citizens are lead to believe the rest of the world is largely full of demons. By visiting you prove to those that see you and meet you that the rest of the world is not hellbent on their destruction - that we are humans too. That contact is considered by some to be valuable and important in helping to crack open the door. For me that view helped make up mind to visit - that and the chance to come back to the UK and explain to people about the DPRK and how the country got to where it is today. I do believe that mutual understanding and respect will gradually help open the DPRK up.

I appreciate that you do not agree with me visiting, and respect your views.

SMART51

FLYINGFOX with all my respects to your point of view i do not think that 15000 tourist a year is big business.I wonder what do you think about the tourism boom in Cuba from the West. Also i am from the point of view only direct contact with other people from other countries is the only way of showing that all of us are not war monguls.The cold war between the US and China was broken with a table tennis tour. Even at the hight of the cold war with Russia American tourist visited the old USSR.In the absence of free media human contact is a last resort.Soon the people of North Koreans and Cubans will join the rest of the world .

Flyingfox

I appreciate your openess. Did you actually have a chance to mingle with or even speak with anyone outside your government-minded tour group in public?
It seems to me that most people visiting North Korea do so for the "weirdness" or "been there, done that" quotient, not for diplomatic purposes.
I think you bring up a good point above, but there is no "mutual understanding and respect" occurring with DPRK tourism. The average North Koreans are not allowed to speak to tourists and can be arrested for doing so. So all the gain appears to be on the side of the tourist. I think most of the talk about "promoting mutual this and that, giving people in the DPRK exposure to outsiders, etc....." is really a justification for going that does not hold water. The money goes directly to the government, who in turn use it for what?

SMART51

Lets say there is 15000 tourist a year average spending around 200$ each total is 2million a drop in the bucket for a goverment even North Korea who can build the tallest hotel in the world and then not use it.

SMART51

I would like to add in no way i love communist regimes on the contrary i do really hate them But i am still for the people tocome to know each other in a freindly and peacful way and not by boycotting the unfortunates human being under a terrble oppressive regime like North Korea. And i am talking from experience

Flyingfox

Wow - "Smart51" - are these serious comments you're making? Try about $2500-3500 for each tourist on their lovely "tours". And that "hotel" you continue to refer to was never even close to being finished. It is a mere concrete skeleton without even WINDOWS. And they ran out of money!
Please make an effort to educate yourself with books, the internet, etc. before you make such ridiculous comments. Posting inaccurate "facts" as you've done, without even (apparently) bothering to get the true story about any of what you're writing, is in poor taste and can mislead others.

Greg48

Swanhunter, I've just caught up with reading your report, and have enjoyed every bit of it. Hope there is still more to come.
I would also make the trip if US citizens were allowed in.

Rejuvenated

I have always wanted to travel to N. Korea. I've heard that Pyongyang has some magnificent architectures.

CApreppie

Swanhunter - thank you for answering my Metro question. So I guess the follow up to that is. The regular passengers have to thread their way through emergency lighting at all times, while the foreigners get to have their way lit with the main lighting and bombastic music?

I don't think US citizens will be allowed in North Korea for a very long time if unless something radical and unexpected occurs. A US citizen would have better luck getting dual citizenship with a country friendlier to N. Korea and going with that passport.

SMART51

Thank you for the education class.I think i was very polite with you but it seems you do not know proper manners in writing.
In a matter of fact my first words where with all my respects.
I said $200 as how much money they will make at the end of the trip after taking all the expenses . In a matter of fact some comunist coutry's will operate at a loss just for propaganda goals.
As far as my education well if you do not know howe far i went in my education then it is you who is posting innacurate facts and not me. Now for poor taste i read my responses few times i did not find any poor taste there,but i found in your response nothing but personal attack and insults. My education and proper manners would not allow me to respond in the same manner.
As for knowledge of communism enough for me to say that i was raised in one of those country's where they fed you socialism (the smaller brother of communism) so please i do not need any lesson there.
Still i would like to apologise if any of the above is harsh but i am confident that i did not start with the character assassination and insults.
Peace

CApreppie

Can we not hijack Swanhunters great trip report? Perhaps, take your debate to another forum or privately?

mosburger

Fascinating stuff! Especially envious on Swanhunter having the chance to sample the famous Pyongyang cold noodles in their orginal environment. Strangely enough, they are also exported to the South and can be bought at food shops there.

Many people in the ROK are of the opinion that the North has managed to preserve the "Korean soul" better than they have been able. Would be very tempted to go and see if there is any truth to that...

SMART51

With pleasure as the report is really great.
Will avoid responding as of now.
Thanks