BA Club World OAK-LGW-LHR-JFK: a tale of two flights
Jul 7, 2018, 7:38 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 11
BA Club World OAK-LGW-LHR-JFK: a tale of two flights
British Airways J class (Club World) out of OAK: in a word, it was magnificent.
OK, just kidding: it was awful. It started in OAK. I've flown in/out domestically several times and it has never really left a strong impression on me, until now. Check in was fine, efficient if not terribly friendly. We were "invited" to the lounge, toward which we shuffled after enduring the usual humiliation of security screening. The lounge was literally jammed with people: no open seats, several people just standing, waiting like raptors, for seats to open. There's a saying, something like trying to put 10 lbs of "stuff" in a 5 lb bag?" "Forget this" the wife declared and we headed for the gate. This was a mistake.
Gate 1 was, for lack of a better term, gross. There were some open seats, which were quickly occupied over a 20 minute period, resulting in a similar "overstuffed lounge" scene. There are only a few coveted power outlets. The seats and carpeting were kinda gross (and I have fairly low cleanliness standards for public spaces like this). There is one door for boarding, with one lane for queueing. As soon as the boarding announcement went off, there was a hoard of passengers who converged on the single portal into the boarding lanes. It was chaos (but not as bad as Malpensa; that's a longer story for another day).
We were seated in 11K and J on an aging 777. The seats are awful: they are narrow, they are the opposite of ergonomic ("unergonomic?"), they are crappy. The leg rest is a complete joke: it doesn't even come out level with the seat surface. Imagine trying to sleep on a bed that has two distinct levels. I mean, maybe it works for SpongeBob. Yeah, I never thought I'd say this but I'll take the old school "flat but angled" Lufthansa J seats.
There is no storage. You have to put your small items (backpack, purse, murse, fannypack, etc) in an overhead storage bin for take off and landing. This was brought to my attention immediately because they leave you a frankly disgusting pillow and a very thin, threadbare Dickensian "blanket" piled on your narrow little seat. What exactly do you do with these "amenities" right after boarding? You don't need them right away but there's no place to store them. You have to put them in the...yes, that's right, overhead storage bin.
The best thing I can say about the IFE system is that it works, on a very primitive level. What I mean by that is that there is a small screen that is not particularly adjustable that projects a very low resolution moving image from a relatively recent cinematic film. You can start it and stop it. You cannot adjust the image, nor can you (with any reasonable ease) fast forward or rewind. My Bose NC headphone plug worked but it required constant adjustment to get stereo sound. There were two choices of volume control: too damn loud or too damn soft. At least it was adjustable.
Don't get me started on the seat/cabin layout. It made me think of the BA executive who was responsible for giving the green light to this design. He or she had to have walked through a mock-up Club World cabin. They must have actually sat in the seat, looked around, saw the ridiculous privacy screen and briefly imagined some poor BA flight attendant trying to teeter over a (full fare J class!) passenger, passing trays of food and glasses of red wine. They must have said, sitting in the seat, "where do I put my briefcase?" They must have said, "why isn't the leg rest level with the rest of the seat?" They must surely have asked the by-now-under-siege designer, "you expect a (full fare J class!) passenger to step over the extended legs of a (full fare J class!) passenger to go take a leak?" And after asking these few painfully obvious questions and receiving their equally painful answers, he or she said "OK, looks great, nice job, where do I sign?" Seriously, the person or people who had the callousness and utter lack of vision to somehow find this acceptable, if not transformative, should be forced to....fly Club World always.
I was delighted to receive my third choice entree and appetizer as I was, at that point, thinking that this trip report would only get better if I got food poisoning. Everyone knows that eating fish on a plane is akin to eating discount sushi in that there's probably not going to be a happy ending. Disappointingly, although the food was truly awful and inedible but I didn't get physically sick. I ate "pad thai" once on LH and I never thought I'd ever eat anything worse. I was wrong. Very, very wrong.
To their credit, the BA flight attendants kept a very British stiff upper lip. They were unapologetic and unsmiling, recognizing their utterly futile circumstance. They were very "matter of fact," probably not unlike British soldiers who were doomed to horrific trench warfare in WW1. (I mean absolutely no disrespect to these or any veterans to whom we are all deeply indebted)
Not to sound too entitled (although I am), but I think flying J is a necessary extravagance when traveling internationally. It is a treat to arrive at a destination well-rested and fed, maybe a little buzzed, but in generally good condition. In the best of times, I may not want to deplane (think Singapore Air about 10 years ago). In stark contrast, I could not WAIT to deplane after this mess.
And now the good news: we flew back on the upper deck of a 747, LRH-JFK, Club World and it was absolutely fantastic. Now there's no doubt that the Ol' Lady is showing her age, but the elegance of upper deck access remains intact and more than compensates. So here's the thing: the seats are still crappy. The layout still sucks. The IFE is still awful. But there are side storage bins for window seats! This seemingly minor detail has a very positive practical impact on the flight experience. I cannot stress this enough.
The crew was fantastic: they were delightfully engaging, extremely attentive, and service oriented. Food and drink were abundant and, believe it or not, generally edible if not actually tasty.
Walking down the stairs, for what might well be the very last time, from the upper deck of a 747: I was sad to deplane. I have to admit that I feel a little weird complaining about J class. A classic example of whiney, first world problems, right? Guilty as charged.
But there it is, a tale of two (flight) cities: it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
OK, just kidding: it was awful. It started in OAK. I've flown in/out domestically several times and it has never really left a strong impression on me, until now. Check in was fine, efficient if not terribly friendly. We were "invited" to the lounge, toward which we shuffled after enduring the usual humiliation of security screening. The lounge was literally jammed with people: no open seats, several people just standing, waiting like raptors, for seats to open. There's a saying, something like trying to put 10 lbs of "stuff" in a 5 lb bag?" "Forget this" the wife declared and we headed for the gate. This was a mistake.
Gate 1 was, for lack of a better term, gross. There were some open seats, which were quickly occupied over a 20 minute period, resulting in a similar "overstuffed lounge" scene. There are only a few coveted power outlets. The seats and carpeting were kinda gross (and I have fairly low cleanliness standards for public spaces like this). There is one door for boarding, with one lane for queueing. As soon as the boarding announcement went off, there was a hoard of passengers who converged on the single portal into the boarding lanes. It was chaos (but not as bad as Malpensa; that's a longer story for another day).
We were seated in 11K and J on an aging 777. The seats are awful: they are narrow, they are the opposite of ergonomic ("unergonomic?"), they are crappy. The leg rest is a complete joke: it doesn't even come out level with the seat surface. Imagine trying to sleep on a bed that has two distinct levels. I mean, maybe it works for SpongeBob. Yeah, I never thought I'd say this but I'll take the old school "flat but angled" Lufthansa J seats.
There is no storage. You have to put your small items (backpack, purse, murse, fannypack, etc) in an overhead storage bin for take off and landing. This was brought to my attention immediately because they leave you a frankly disgusting pillow and a very thin, threadbare Dickensian "blanket" piled on your narrow little seat. What exactly do you do with these "amenities" right after boarding? You don't need them right away but there's no place to store them. You have to put them in the...yes, that's right, overhead storage bin.
The best thing I can say about the IFE system is that it works, on a very primitive level. What I mean by that is that there is a small screen that is not particularly adjustable that projects a very low resolution moving image from a relatively recent cinematic film. You can start it and stop it. You cannot adjust the image, nor can you (with any reasonable ease) fast forward or rewind. My Bose NC headphone plug worked but it required constant adjustment to get stereo sound. There were two choices of volume control: too damn loud or too damn soft. At least it was adjustable.
Don't get me started on the seat/cabin layout. It made me think of the BA executive who was responsible for giving the green light to this design. He or she had to have walked through a mock-up Club World cabin. They must have actually sat in the seat, looked around, saw the ridiculous privacy screen and briefly imagined some poor BA flight attendant trying to teeter over a (full fare J class!) passenger, passing trays of food and glasses of red wine. They must have said, sitting in the seat, "where do I put my briefcase?" They must have said, "why isn't the leg rest level with the rest of the seat?" They must surely have asked the by-now-under-siege designer, "you expect a (full fare J class!) passenger to step over the extended legs of a (full fare J class!) passenger to go take a leak?" And after asking these few painfully obvious questions and receiving their equally painful answers, he or she said "OK, looks great, nice job, where do I sign?" Seriously, the person or people who had the callousness and utter lack of vision to somehow find this acceptable, if not transformative, should be forced to....fly Club World always.
I was delighted to receive my third choice entree and appetizer as I was, at that point, thinking that this trip report would only get better if I got food poisoning. Everyone knows that eating fish on a plane is akin to eating discount sushi in that there's probably not going to be a happy ending. Disappointingly, although the food was truly awful and inedible but I didn't get physically sick. I ate "pad thai" once on LH and I never thought I'd ever eat anything worse. I was wrong. Very, very wrong.
To their credit, the BA flight attendants kept a very British stiff upper lip. They were unapologetic and unsmiling, recognizing their utterly futile circumstance. They were very "matter of fact," probably not unlike British soldiers who were doomed to horrific trench warfare in WW1. (I mean absolutely no disrespect to these or any veterans to whom we are all deeply indebted)
Not to sound too entitled (although I am), but I think flying J is a necessary extravagance when traveling internationally. It is a treat to arrive at a destination well-rested and fed, maybe a little buzzed, but in generally good condition. In the best of times, I may not want to deplane (think Singapore Air about 10 years ago). In stark contrast, I could not WAIT to deplane after this mess.
And now the good news: we flew back on the upper deck of a 747, LRH-JFK, Club World and it was absolutely fantastic. Now there's no doubt that the Ol' Lady is showing her age, but the elegance of upper deck access remains intact and more than compensates. So here's the thing: the seats are still crappy. The layout still sucks. The IFE is still awful. But there are side storage bins for window seats! This seemingly minor detail has a very positive practical impact on the flight experience. I cannot stress this enough.
The crew was fantastic: they were delightfully engaging, extremely attentive, and service oriented. Food and drink were abundant and, believe it or not, generally edible if not actually tasty.
Walking down the stairs, for what might well be the very last time, from the upper deck of a 747: I was sad to deplane. I have to admit that I feel a little weird complaining about J class. A classic example of whiney, first world problems, right? Guilty as charged.
But there it is, a tale of two (flight) cities: it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.
Jul 7, 2018, 7:49 pm
#2
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 557
We were seated in 11K and J on an aging 777. The seats are awful: they are narrow, they are the opposite of ergonomic ("unergonomic?"), they are crappy. The leg rest is a complete joke: it doesn't even come out level with the seat surface. Imagine trying to sleep on a bed that has two distinct levels. I mean, maybe it works for SpongeBob. Yeah, I never thought I'd say this but I'll take the old school "flat but angled" Lufthansa J seats.
There is no storage. You have to put your small items (backpack, purse, murse, fannypack, etc) in an overhead storage bin for take off and landing. This was brought to my attention immediately because they leave you a frankly disgusting pillow and a very thin, threadbare Dickensian "blanket" piled on your narrow little seat. What exactly do you do with these "amenities" right after boarding? You don't need them right away but there's no place to store them. You have to put them in the...yes, that's right, overhead storage bin.
The best thing I can say about the IFE system is that it works, on a very primitive level. What I mean by that is that there is a small screen that is not particularly adjustable that projects a very low resolution moving image from a relatively recent cinematic film. You can start it and stop it. You cannot adjust the image, nor can you (with any reasonable ease) fast forward or rewind. My Bose NC headphone plug worked but it required constant adjustment to get stereo sound. There were two choices of volume control: too damn loud or too damn soft. At least it was adjustable.
Don't get me started on the seat/cabin layout. It made me think of the BA executive who was responsible for giving the green light to this design. He or she had to have walked through a mock-up Club World cabin. They must have actually sat in the seat, looked around, saw the ridiculous privacy screen and briefly imagined some poor BA flight attendant trying to teeter over a (full fare J class!) passenger, passing trays of food and glasses of red wine. They must have said, sitting in the seat, "where do I put my briefcase?" They must have said, "why isn't the leg rest level with the rest of the seat?" They must surely have asked the by-now-under-siege designer, "you expect a (full fare J class!) passenger to step over the extended legs of a (full fare J class!) passenger to go take a leak?" And after asking these few painfully obvious questions and receiving their equally painful answers, he or she said "OK, looks great, nice job, where do I sign?" Seriously, the person or people who had the callousness and utter lack of vision to somehow find this acceptable, if not transformative, should be forced to....fly Club World always.
.
Jul 8, 2018, 12:47 am
#3
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Programs: BAEC, AA, Emirates, Hilton, Hyatt, Taj Hotels
Posts: 2,343
When BA launched these seats nearly 20 years ago they were the business class seat that converted to a flat bed - for at least 10 years it was one of the best business class products around -- it wasn't until the past 3-4 years LH had seats that went fully flat and AF still doesn't. That's not to say there are many, many business class products today that are much better than BA.
There is some light in the tunnel in that BA will likely have an updated seat next year when the A350s come in, but I am afraid that the existing seat will be with us for a few years yet on all the 744s and probably the older 777s. The OP actually hit BA's sweetspot with UD on the 744 but only after seeing BA at its worst - operating from a station where BA has no infrastructure (route being dropped in 2019 I believe), on one of its least popular planes on a route (LGW) that for some reason is getting the updated bedding and catering long after routes to/from LHR. I mean, what is the issue with providing the updated bedding sooner?
There are some people out there who like the BA seat - the privacy of the window seats and those in the know are aware that there are some choice seats where you don't have to step over to get into the aisle. But on the whole there are too many bad seats - middle pairs on many frames which are awful for solo travellers (conversely great if no one is sitting next to you) and aisle seats which offer no privacy. The long overdue upgraded bedding will help as will the catering as and when it is fully functional.
Jul 8, 2018, 8:42 pm
#6
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
That's correct and the people who signed off on the product 20 odd years ago should be congratulated as it heralded the era of flat seats in Business Class that we are now (largely) so familiar with. BA actually headed the pack in First at the same time with their 'suites', The trouble is, although the seats have been updated since they first entered service, they are essentially the same product and a number of carriers have leapt forward - think Cirrus and reverse herringbones as some examples. EK on the A380 has a great seat.. There are some airlines IMHO out there who actually have worse seats (think Lufthansa and much of AF).
There is some light in the tunnel in that BA will likely have an updated seat next year when the A350s come in, but I am afraid that the existing seat will be with us for a few years yet on all the 744s and probably the older 777s. The OP actually hit BA's sweetspot with UD on the 744 but only after seeing BA at its worst - operating from a station where BA has no infrastructure (route being dropped in 2019 I believe), on one of its least popular planes on a route (LGW) that for some reason is getting the updated bedding and catering long after routes to/from LHR. I mean, what is the issue with providing the updated bedding sooner?
There are some people out there who like the BA seat - the privacy of the window seats and those in the know are aware that there are some choice seats where you don't have to step over to get into the aisle. But on the whole there are too many bad seats - middle pairs on many frames which are awful for solo travellers (conversely great if no one is sitting next to you) and aisle seats which offer no privacy. The long overdue upgraded bedding will help as will the catering as and when it is fully functional.
There is some light in the tunnel in that BA will likely have an updated seat next year when the A350s come in, but I am afraid that the existing seat will be with us for a few years yet on all the 744s and probably the older 777s. The OP actually hit BA's sweetspot with UD on the 744 but only after seeing BA at its worst - operating from a station where BA has no infrastructure (route being dropped in 2019 I believe), on one of its least popular planes on a route (LGW) that for some reason is getting the updated bedding and catering long after routes to/from LHR. I mean, what is the issue with providing the updated bedding sooner?
There are some people out there who like the BA seat - the privacy of the window seats and those in the know are aware that there are some choice seats where you don't have to step over to get into the aisle. But on the whole there are too many bad seats - middle pairs on many frames which are awful for solo travellers (conversely great if no one is sitting next to you) and aisle seats which offer no privacy. The long overdue upgraded bedding will help as will the catering as and when it is fully functional.
Do you think many fliers who pay high prices are ready to suffer like the OP because it was sooooooo great when introduced? Today loyalty is hard to come by even when your Ps & Qs are well executed. I believe a busuness should be taken to the woodshed every time they disappoint a CUSTOMER.
Jul 9, 2018, 1:32 pm
#7
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: London
Programs: BAEC, AA, Emirates, Hilton, Hyatt, Taj Hotels
Posts: 2,343
Flights to/from LGW are the poor relation on BA. BA has been updating the soft product in Club World (partially one suspects due to the realisation that their hard product is now sub par). Starting with the JFK - which always gets the good stuff first - they have been rolling out new catering and new bedding on routes to/from LHR. The rollout has been painfully slow, and as ever, LGW will get it last (UPDATE: new bedding hit LGW routes last week - finally!). The new bedding makes a big difference. The CW bed is actually OK but was crying out for a better pillow and duvet which is now in place on most routes. Catering is also being updated but hasn't hit LGW yet. LGW also has older aircraft which are last to be updated.
Last edited by Betteronacamel; Jul 9, 2018 at 1:40 pm Reason: Update as bedding now available on LGW routes..
Jul 9, 2018, 1:45 pm
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: JER
Programs: BA Gold/OWE, several MUCCI, and assorted Pensions!
Posts: 32,145
ORDorBust ... your report on the BA CW seat resonates, as we have suffered the lack of convenient stowage for anything for years. Of course, the design was created to maximise BA bums on seats in J, with little consideration for personal convenience. Such is life in the last century!
I'll take AA for TATL any day, but sadly they don't always go where we want. But when they do, we're up for it!
I'll take AA for TATL any day, but sadly they don't always go where we want. But when they do, we're up for it!
Jul 13, 2018, 12:02 pm
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LGW.
Programs: Cunard WorldClub-Gold,Silverseas Venetian society,Alitalia Mille miglia,SPG,Fairmont,IHG.
Posts: 733
As a spectacle wearer I find the BA J seat shocking . I take my glasses off to sleep, but there is nowhere to stow them safely within reach, That ridiculous little drawer down by your feet is no use for specs!
Jul 13, 2018, 5:16 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: ORD
Programs: US Air, UA BA LH AI DELTA MARRIOTT CHOICE SGP
Posts: 9,883
I use the stringy ( rubber, plastic, beads !) thingy you can buy for a buck at Dollar Tree ! to keep it close to me !spectacle
Jul 19, 2018, 9:44 am
#11
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: UK, Peak District near MAN
Programs: BA- blue, BD,DL
Posts: 2,027
You must have had a dodgy seat, my footrest has always been the same height as the seat, or I have adjusted it to be so.
I’ve always found the seat to be very comfortable, especially for lounging. I dislike the SQ seat as you just can’t get comfortable in the seat position.
I agree about the the lack of storage but I do like the security of the small tray. With my passport in there I know it’s safe while I’m sleeping.
Each to his own, it’s not the best, it’s not the worst.
I’ve always found the seat to be very comfortable, especially for lounging. I dislike the SQ seat as you just can’t get comfortable in the seat position.
I agree about the the lack of storage but I do like the security of the small tray. With my passport in there I know it’s safe while I’m sleeping.
Each to his own, it’s not the best, it’s not the worst.
Last edited by highpeaklad; Jul 19, 2018 at 10:01 am
Jul 22, 2018, 5:39 am
#12
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Canary Wharf, London
Programs: MyWaitrose, IC Spire Ambassador, Hilton Diamond & BAEC Gold
Posts: 2,685
The club world foot stool is height adjustable. You squeeze the handle and move it up or down.
Up for bed mode, and it is the same height as the seat, and down for the z position making it a comfortable foot rest in seat mode.
Up for bed mode, and it is the same height as the seat, and down for the z position making it a comfortable foot rest in seat mode.