Konnichiwa! LH F (via FRA FCT & a 911) to Japan for Sakura. Back home via Shanghai.
Jun 10, 2017, 7:35 am
#136
formerly htang333
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wi-Fi
Programs: Virtuoso, Top Ranked: Four Seasons (Top 25 Advisor), AMAN (Top 50), Rosewood, Hyatt Prive, etc.
Posts: 1,455
PH PVG and PH SYD are two of my favorite PH's in the world.
If PH PVG's service can elevate to the level of PH SYD then I would have no issue staying there anytime I'm in PVG.
People dislike staying on the Pudong side but getting around Shanghai isn't difficult and the view from PH PVG is unmatched by another in the city. The hard product may be a bit too cold for someone but I love it!
I hope you tried the duck, JR! The conecpt isnt' all that different from Duck Confit
If PH PVG's service can elevate to the level of PH SYD then I would have no issue staying there anytime I'm in PVG.
People dislike staying on the Pudong side but getting around Shanghai isn't difficult and the view from PH PVG is unmatched by another in the city. The hard product may be a bit too cold for someone but I love it!
I hope you tried the duck, JR! The conecpt isnt' all that different from Duck Confit
Jun 11, 2017, 8:05 am
#138
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Beantown! (BOS)
Programs: AA PtPro (2 MM); Hilton Diamond; Hertz President Cr; DL SkyMiles; UA MileagePlus
Posts: 3,437
Gion, Kyoto's most famous Geisha district.
Sorry ma'am, are you a geisha? No? Ok nevermind.
But you sure look like one. No? Oh I'm sorry, I'm just a stupid European tourist who thinks that every girl in a kimono must be a geisha.
The geisha episode left me a bit confused...
I've learned my lesson, I won't ask you if are, well, you know what.
Sorry ma'am, are you a geisha? No? Ok nevermind.
But you sure look like one. No? Oh I'm sorry, I'm just a stupid European tourist who thinks that every girl in a kimono must be a geisha.
The geisha episode left me a bit confused...
I've learned my lesson, I won't ask you if are, well, you know what.
Brilliant again JohnRain. I really must visit Kyoto again, it's been a while (more than 15 years I think!) and each time has only been for a day or two, there's too much to see for such quick visits.
My then wife was disappointed that we didn't see any Geisha. Well, she didn't but I did! I told her many times that they're not out and about until between 5 and 7pm and when it came to time to wander round Gion she decided to chill out in the hotel instead because we'd spent the day climbing hills. I went out and came across 2 or 3 pairs of Geisha on their way to "clients" - I thought it politic to not mention this to the mrs when I got back
My then wife was disappointed that we didn't see any Geisha. Well, she didn't but I did! I told her many times that they're not out and about until between 5 and 7pm and when it came to time to wander round Gion she decided to chill out in the hotel instead because we'd spent the day climbing hills. I went out and came across 2 or 3 pairs of Geisha on their way to "clients" - I thought it politic to not mention this to the mrs when I got back
Thanks so much for your compliment, rosensfole!
I also felt I only scratched the surface as Kyoto has indeed so much to offer it takes several trips to get a grasp of it.
Funny that you mention the geishas as in my case Mrs JohnRain was just as curious as me to see them...
Thanks a lot for your comment, 747FC!
That's good to know...
But, but, I thought that... what?
This is like saying the tooth fairy doesn't exist either!
Thanks for bursting my bubble, NewbieRunner...
Actually it was the concierge of the St Regis Osaka who enlightened me about the Chinese tourists posing as geishas.
I also felt I only scratched the surface as Kyoto has indeed so much to offer it takes several trips to get a grasp of it.
Funny that you mention the geishas as in my case Mrs JohnRain was just as curious as me to see them...
Thanks a lot for your comment, 747FC!
That's good to know...
But, but, I thought that... what?
This is like saying the tooth fairy doesn't exist either!
Thanks for bursting my bubble, NewbieRunner...
Actually it was the concierge of the St Regis Osaka who enlightened me about the Chinese tourists posing as geishas.
However, as a native of Japan I have to mention one thing, since this is too often confused and miss used term by non-Japanese. Those ladies in Gion (祇園) area of Kyoto works as an entertainer at high class private Chaya (茶屋, dining place) are called Maiko (舞妓) and not Geisha (芸者). Maiko (舞妓) and Geisha (芸者) have very different training background and often Geisha (芸者) is considered lower form of Maiko (舞妓).
One should not talk directly to Maiko (舞妓) when walking on a street. Today, there are many services at Kyoto which will dress tourists in Japanese Kimono (着物) which may look like Maiko (舞妓) in eye of non-Japanese but those tourists are wearing very cheap Kinomo (着物), nothing like high quality Kimono (着物) Maiko (舞妓) wears. Also there are places which has no relation with Maiko Okiya (舞妓置屋, where Maiko live and train) who will dress up like Maiko and take pictures with tourists. Actually, there is an unwritten rule that when you see real Maiko (舞妓) on a street you are not to take a picture. It is like Japanese tourists visiting London see local ladies wearing a cheap dress and a cheap dress hat from a discount store on a street and Japanese tourists asking if she is a Royal.
Also, Maiko (舞妓) in Kyoto is considered more higher class proper form than Geisha (芸者), it is usually an insult to ask Maiko (舞妓), “Are you Geisha?”
Ohayo Gozaimasu (おはようございます) = Good Morning
Konnichiwa (今日は) = Good Afternoon
Konnbanwa (こんばんわ) = Good Evening
Jun 11, 2017, 8:26 am
#139
formerly htang333
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wi-Fi
Programs: Virtuoso, Top Ranked: Four Seasons (Top 25 Advisor), AMAN (Top 50), Rosewood, Hyatt Prive, etc.
Posts: 1,455
Thank you for the report, JohnRain. First time responding to your post. I always enjoy your trip report. The arrangement and flow of your trip report is very easy to read and comprehensive, appreciate taking time to post detailed trip report. Your trip report communicates the impression of the places to be once in life time places and make people (least me) wanting to visit those places.
However, as a native of Japan I have to mention one thing, since this is too often confused and miss used term by non-Japanese. Those ladies in Gion (祇園) area of Kyoto works as an entertainer at high class private Chaya (茶屋, dining place) are called Maiko (舞妓) and not Geisha (芸者). Maiko (舞妓) and Geisha (芸者) have very different training background and often Geisha (芸者) is considered lower form of Maiko (舞妓).
One should not talk directly to Maiko (舞妓) when walking on a street. Today, there are many services at Kyoto which will dress tourists in Japanese Kimono (着物) which may look like Maiko (舞妓) in eye of non-Japanese but those tourists are wearing very cheap Kinomo (着物), nothing like high quality Kimono (着物) Maiko (舞妓) wears. Also there are places which has no relation with Maiko Okiya (舞妓置屋, where Maiko live and train) who will dress up like Maiko and take pictures with tourists. Actually, there is an unwritten rule that when you see real Maiko (舞妓) on a street you are not to take a picture. It is like Japanese tourists visiting London see local ladies wearing a cheap dress and a cheap dress hat from a discount store on a street and Japanese tourists asking if she is a Royal.
Also, Maiko (舞妓) in Kyoto is considered more higher class proper form than Geisha (芸者), it is usually an insult to ask Maiko (舞妓), “Are you Geisha?”
Ohayo Gozaimasu (おはようございます) = Good Morning
Konnichiwa (今日は) = Good Afternoon
Konnbanwa (こんばんわ) = Good Evening
However, as a native of Japan I have to mention one thing, since this is too often confused and miss used term by non-Japanese. Those ladies in Gion (祇園) area of Kyoto works as an entertainer at high class private Chaya (茶屋, dining place) are called Maiko (舞妓) and not Geisha (芸者). Maiko (舞妓) and Geisha (芸者) have very different training background and often Geisha (芸者) is considered lower form of Maiko (舞妓).
One should not talk directly to Maiko (舞妓) when walking on a street. Today, there are many services at Kyoto which will dress tourists in Japanese Kimono (着物) which may look like Maiko (舞妓) in eye of non-Japanese but those tourists are wearing very cheap Kinomo (着物), nothing like high quality Kimono (着物) Maiko (舞妓) wears. Also there are places which has no relation with Maiko Okiya (舞妓置屋, where Maiko live and train) who will dress up like Maiko and take pictures with tourists. Actually, there is an unwritten rule that when you see real Maiko (舞妓) on a street you are not to take a picture. It is like Japanese tourists visiting London see local ladies wearing a cheap dress and a cheap dress hat from a discount store on a street and Japanese tourists asking if she is a Royal.
Also, Maiko (舞妓) in Kyoto is considered more higher class proper form than Geisha (芸者), it is usually an insult to ask Maiko (舞妓), “Are you Geisha?”
Ohayo Gozaimasu (おはようございます) = Good Morning
Konnichiwa (今日は) = Good Afternoon
Konnbanwa (こんばんわ) = Good Evening
Jun 15, 2017, 6:35 am
#141
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Geneva, Dubai, Paris
Programs: Disillusioned Cent
Posts: 1,880
PH PVG and PH SYD are two of my favorite PH's in the world.
If PH PVG's service can elevate to the level of PH SYD then I would have no issue staying there anytime I'm in PVG.
People dislike staying on the Pudong side but getting around Shanghai isn't difficult and the view from PH PVG is unmatched by another in the city. The hard product may be a bit too cold for someone but I love it!
I hope you tried the duck, JR! The concept isnt' all that different from Duck Confit
If PH PVG's service can elevate to the level of PH SYD then I would have no issue staying there anytime I'm in PVG.
People dislike staying on the Pudong side but getting around Shanghai isn't difficult and the view from PH PVG is unmatched by another in the city. The hard product may be a bit too cold for someone but I love it!
I hope you tried the duck, JR! The concept isnt' all that different from Duck Confit
Thank you for the report, JohnRain. First time responding to your post. I always enjoy your trip report. The arrangement and flow of your trip report is very easy to read and comprehensive, appreciate taking time to post detailed trip report. Your trip report communicates the impression of the places to be once in life time places and make people (least me) wanting to visit those places.
I never addressed a Geisha, let alone a Maiko and I'm pretty sure that all the pictures I took were of Chinese tourists posing as Geishas, which means I shouldn't have made too terrible a cultural faux pas...
So did I, BESVISOR...
Update: the next installment will be online tomorrow.
Jun 15, 2017, 6:50 am
#142
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Germany
Programs: Some
Posts: 11,519
Jun 16, 2017, 3:47 am
#144
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Geneva, Dubai, Paris
Programs: Disillusioned Cent
Posts: 1,880
You might just have hit the nail on the head, Aventine!
Jun 16, 2017, 5:33 am
#145
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Geneva, Dubai, Paris
Programs: Disillusioned Cent
Posts: 1,880
The windows of our room weren't the cleanest, but the view spectacular nonetheless.
Time to explore the breakfast spread.
Now, the following is a bit embarrassing. I had heard so many horror stories about the air quality in China that I bought an FFP3 mask (the highest protective class) and intended to use it during the whole stay. I expected everybody else to wear one too but to my surprise I quickly found out that I was the only one. I mean, most people wear a surgical mask in Japan (although for different reasons), so I thought they would be even more popular in China. There you go, I just outed myself as a total China noob. If you want to make fun of me please go ahead, I deserve it.
Shanghai's skyline is pretty impressive.
The Shanghai French concession. I had to read about it to find out why it's called like that as it sure doesn't look like Paris.
Xintiandi, a fashionable car-free district.
I resisted the temptation to have lunch there...
... but this guy clearly didn't. As German food is known to be light and mostly served in small portions it's understandable that he went with two mains.
Cova, one of the best pastry shops in Milan, looked like a classier option.
After a short nap back home...
...we went to Mr & Mrs Bund for dinner.
Great food...
...and impressive views that justify the name of the place.
Up Next: Black swans do exist after all.
Time to explore the breakfast spread.
Now, the following is a bit embarrassing. I had heard so many horror stories about the air quality in China that I bought an FFP3 mask (the highest protective class) and intended to use it during the whole stay. I expected everybody else to wear one too but to my surprise I quickly found out that I was the only one. I mean, most people wear a surgical mask in Japan (although for different reasons), so I thought they would be even more popular in China. There you go, I just outed myself as a total China noob. If you want to make fun of me please go ahead, I deserve it.
Shanghai's skyline is pretty impressive.
The Shanghai French concession. I had to read about it to find out why it's called like that as it sure doesn't look like Paris.
Xintiandi, a fashionable car-free district.
I resisted the temptation to have lunch there...
... but this guy clearly didn't. As German food is known to be light and mostly served in small portions it's understandable that he went with two mains.
Cova, one of the best pastry shops in Milan, looked like a classier option.
After a short nap back home...
...we went to Mr & Mrs Bund for dinner.
Great food...
...and impressive views that justify the name of the place.
Up Next: Black swans do exist after all.
Last edited by JohnRain; Jun 16, 2017 at 12:13 pm
Jun 17, 2017, 1:09 pm
#147
formerly htang333
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Wi-Fi
Programs: Virtuoso, Top Ranked: Four Seasons (Top 25 Advisor), AMAN (Top 50), Rosewood, Hyatt Prive, etc.
Posts: 1,455
The PH spread is very decent and I like the Asian stations. However, service has always been very slow during my visits...regardless of the amount of staff to guest ratio. But overall, not much to complain about and the views on a clear morning is insane!
Jun 20, 2017, 2:53 am
#148
Original Poster
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Geneva, Dubai, Paris
Programs: Disillusioned Cent
Posts: 1,880
Indeed Aventine, it is safe to assume that I took a healthy break from my usual little sugar no gluten diet during this trip...
Agree with your take of the PH PVG, BESVISOR. Service could be improved (especially the english language skills), rooms a little brighter and it also wouldn't hurt if the hotel used a signature scent to perfume the pubilc areas but other than that it's a very good property.
Update: the next installment will be online tomorrow.
Update: the next installment will be online tomorrow.