Going to Cuba
 

"A friend of mine" is going to Cuba in a few months. Would like to go legally if possible but will consider limboing beneath the legal tripwires if not.

Any suggestions? Any recent experiences there to share?

Having looked into going to Cuba before I understand that the odds of getting caught are relativly small. Cuban immigration officials will stamp a piece of paper instead of your passport if you ask them too. However it is always easier to go legally and there are a number of tours that go regularly. However do remember that travel to Cuba is legal, you just can spend money in Cuba. Lastly if your friend has a non-US passport he can travel on it and travel as a citizen of ________, not as an American, in that case there are no restricitions.

P.S. This is all from what I remember as of about 2 years ago, it could have changed, especially with the Bush Administration

I would suggest we try to keep politcal commentary out of our messages.

Note that just because a tour company claims a trip is "legal", doesn't mean it is. There was an article that I read a few months ago about how there's been a crackdown in the past few years on travel to Cuba, including folks who thought they were on "legal" tours getting into trouble.

This is not true. The ban is incumbent upon "all persons subject to US jurisdiction" which includes persons who may be citizens and residents of other countries but have any links to the United States (such as a bank account with a US bank, business dealings with US entities, etc...).

I am a citizen of India and a resident of India who was considering travel to Cuba on a vacation this year. I contacted the US Treasury department's Office of Foreign Assets Control to clarify the legalities and was informed that due to the fact that I maintain a bank account in the US as well as have equity stakes in companies dealing with the US, I would be considered a "person subject to U.S. jurisdiction" and the travel embargo applied to me as well. If I disregarded this embargo and traveled to Cuba, I was risking potential seizure of assets in the United States as well as legal proceedings. Additionally, any foreign citizen who subsequently visits the United States as a tourist at ANY TIME after visiting Cuba is also considered to be a "person subject to U.S. jurisdiction" and is subject to retroactive prosecution.

In fact, foreign citizens are at a disadvantage when traveling to Cuba because they are not eligible to apply to the US Treasury department for a license to deal with Cuba, whereas US Citizens can. They are also not entitled to the constitutional protections against retroactive prosecution that US Citizens are. Hence, my reccomendation is for non-US citizens to steer away from visiting Cuba if they ever have intention of dealing with the United States in the future.

I fail to see where I included any political commentary in my message. The Bush Administration has made it more difficult to travel to Cuba. This fact, not commentary, however if you would like to discuss the merits of the embargo please feel free to e-mail me.

On what do you base this assertion?

I am a U.S. citizen and a 14 year resident of Mexico...and going to Cuba is a piece of cake from here. While I probably won´t be running into B747-437B on my next visit, I have no paranoia whatsoever, and you shouldn´t either. And as far as the U.S. government retaliating or seizing my property in the U.S., give me a break. Both MX and Cubana fly nonstop from MEX, and Cubana has mojitos in business class on their early am flight, so you arrive in a great mood. Have fun. The music is great. The people are great. The food is great. The U.S. policy is...well, no political commentary.

Personal experience.

A trip to Cuba is simply not worth the "permanent" trouble that it could cause.

I have also researched the legalities (and consequences) involved with US citizen travel to Cuba. Using the hypothetical scenario of a LEGAL, "fully-hosted" trip to Cuba, here are two of the conclusions reached:

1. The traveler would be subject to indefinite close scrutiny by Customs and the INS, receiving at least a full interrogation and baggage check EVERY time he or she tried to enter the United States.

2. If the traveler is or sought to be employed by the Federal Government, he or she could pretty much kiss any hope of a job in a sensitive (e.g., requiring security clearance) position goodbye, even if the job application is many years after the trip.

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[This message has been edited by avek00 (edited 10-07-2002).]

Here is the absolute real story based upon personal experience. The way to go to Cuba is through Cancun. You can call the Ritz Carlton Cancun and ask for the travel agent on the first floor. She will be happy to show up at the airport with your tickets to Havana and your hotel reservations. You will have to prepay for this stuff, of course. DO NOT ENTER MEXICO USING YOUR PASSPORT. USE YOUR DRIVER's LICENSE AND YOUR BIRTH CERTIFICATE. When you get to Havana put your passport into an envelope that says on the outside in Spanish "please do not stamp my passport". When you come back to Mexico from Havana, use your driver's license and birth certificate once again. When you come back to the US do not use your passport to reenter. By following these suggestions you will not have to explain anything about gaps in your passport, i.e., "It seems from your passport as though you went to Mexico and then went somewhere else for a week; where was that somewhere else?" The stamp that gets put into your passport in Cuba, if you elect to be so stupid, is a small tiny little stamp that no customs officer will recognize, however, you would be exposing yourself to substantial risk to be so stupid. If you get caught the opening offer from Washington D.C. will be a $250,000 fine, if they cannot prove that you deliberately went to Cuba in violation of the rules; more if they can prove it. The fine can be negotiated down to $5,000 (ask me how I know), but you do not need to go there. Cuba is one of the most interesting countries you will ever visit as long as you are not at the end of a line that is 100,000 deep (which, of course, will be the case once the country is open to U.S. tourists). Check out the Palacio de Salsa--live music doesn't start until 12:30. Hotel de Nacional is not cheap nor are most of the tourist destinations. Get out of metropolitan Havana. Go to the south side of the island.

I have visited Cuba with several US Citizens and they have had no problems with gaps in their passports. The above posts include all the advice you need to make a safe and fun trip to Cuba and face no problems when you return to the States.

It is my understanding that travel to cuba is not illegal - but spending any US$ is - making it a difficult proposition. I have heard of many people going via canada and mexico without ever facing any problems. I doubt significant resources are presently spent on tracking this type of 'crime'.

I don't think anyone is arguing that there are ways of going to Cuba which can avoid detection. However, the annoying thing to us non-US citizens is that we are being denied freedom of travel by a Government other than our own due to their own unilateral imposition of laws. I don't care whether I can "get away" with something simply because the law is rarely enforced - if it is against the law, then I would rather not run the risk of having my assets frozen and/or confiscated. I think it is highly arrogant that the United States seeks to regulate the travel of foreign nationals that lies completely outside their territory while at the same time granting licenses to their own nationals under certain conditions. THAT is my gripe with the Cuba embargo.

The restrictions imposed by the U.S. on foreign citizens was clearly an attempt to force as much of the world as possible into compliance with its Cuba embargo policy many years ago. It didn´t work (or last) in Canada and Mexico (or anywhere else that I really know of), who's citizens with assets in the U.S. have been going to Cuba freely for years and having a great time, without having anything seized or frozen. B747-437B, you don´t seem like a rebellious kinda guy from your posts, but maybe, just maybe, you are allowing yourself to be willingly victimized by this "we make the rules for the rest of the world too" policy, and going to Cuba may be a liberating experience for you. Not to mention a ton of fun.

Again, any persons subject to US jurisdiction are taking a substantial risk by flouting US regulations on Cuban travel. Unlicensed travel to Cuba (and most business trips and all leisure trips are NOT licenseable) is illegal and subject to severe punishment.

IMHO, Cuba will be fully open to Americans within the next couple of years at the most anyway, so it's just not worth risking the ire of Uncle Sam.

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Thank you for choosing Continental Airlines, a proud member of the SkyTeam Alliance.

Several hundred Americans are fined every year for their little jaunts to Cuba. Do not go!!! Just wait for the bearded little Hitler to die and for Cuba to become free again.

If you really have to go to a spanish speaking socialist paradise try southern California. :-)

[This message has been edited by dfwbob (edited 10-08-2002).]

Yes, but that is why you should go now. It will all change. So if you want to see the only country without a McDonalds or a 7-11 on any streetcorner go NOW. Was there 3 years ago, go and visit this proud, great and lovely people.

Dunno about your research, but a "friend" traveled to Cuba last year and wouldn't trade the experience for anything. The policy is an anachronism, lingering only because neither political party wants to cross the kooky fanatic Elián Gonzales-kidnapping Cuban expats in South Florida.

Just be careful about passport stamping, and purchase a bankcard/bank account in Canada (or Mexico?) to fund your trip. A google search will give you all the information you need.

The security clearance worries seem hard to believe. Also, I have a (real) friend who traveled to Cuba the old-fashioned way--legally through a religious group--and he wisks through Customs regularly without a problem.

If an American travels to Cuba in a 100% legit manner (with a license duly obtained from Treasury), then none of what has been discussed applies. The trouble comes when an American (or other person subject to US jursidiction) travels to Cuba without that authorization, including on technically legal "fully-hosted" trips.

Some advice for you if you do get to Cuba--they do not accept American Express travellers cheques, or any cheques drawn on a US bank. The ironic thing is that they only accept US currency from foreigners. Wierd. Get some Canadian bank issued travellers cheques, and cash those if you need to.

As a Canadian, I go to Cuba often (once every couple of years) for vacation.

I have received questions from the INS when coming back to the US, questioning why I travelled there, and I respond with "great beaches, and fantastic coffee". It's never a problem for me. That said, if you are a foreigner, avoid getting an entry/exit stamp in your passport from Cuba, as it will just create more questions from the INS.

I traveled "legally" with a license issued by the OFAC. We were a group of 5 Rotarians on a Humanitarian Mission. What a great place to visit! The people LOVE Americans and make us feel welcome wherever we visited. Go . . and enjoy a wonderful country and wonderful people.

Thanks, all, for the myriad replies.

After some other web research, I guess the biggest question at this point for "my friend" is whether it makes to lie on Customs forms re-entering the US.

I.e., they ask, "What countries have you been to?"

If you're not travelling with a license, you can say Cuba but refuse to give any more details. If they can't prove you spent money there--a technical violation of the embargo--can they still go after you? Any reason not to take the Fifth?

Of course, you could lie and just not mention the whole Cuba portion of the trip, but that's actually perjury--a criminal offense with possible jail time--and seems worse to me than some fine, however large, that's unlikely to be enforced.

I'm very curious about US citizens with experience on this front.

Thanks again!

The way the statute is written, you are assumed to have spent money in Cuba unless YOU can prove that you didn't.

That information can be found on page 7 of this document and states that :

I really don't understand why you are so scared, If you are going via Canada or Mexico no one will ever know you have been in Cuba. Offcourse you can not use your american creditcard. I know some US people being there. They will not stamp your passport, like they don't stamp your passport in Isreal because of the problem you can have later entering an arab country.

MEX1K- You mentioned that you went to Cuba from Mexico. I too am a US Citizen living in Mexico and have been keeping a trip to Cuba in the back of my mind. Did you find any cheap airfares? So far the cheapest I have seen have been in the $300 range with a stop in Cancún.

Also, what was your money plan? Did you use Am Ex travellers cheques drawn on a Mexican bank?

Saludos.
Lesley

B747-437B, you remain an oracle; thanks very much.

bjerregaard, in response to your question, "I really don't understand why you are so scared, If you are going via Canada or Mexico no one will ever know you have been in Cuba."

I think the specific worry is that US Customs will note the exit stamp from Mexico and then the reentry stamp, and wonder where he went in between.

I dont know if Im just plain lucky or have a too often stamped passport, but its never happened to me that the immigration officer would try to retrace when and where I entered and exited a country. Is it just me?

It's happened to me several times, esp. on the way back from trips to places like (or even near) China, Korea, Turkey, Malaysia....

The whole issue for me is the embargo itself. I know there are ways around the law but it irks me that I have to go through all that to travel to a country I might want to visit. All because of something that should have been done away with long ago.

I have been to Cuba (8 days) partly to work no yet and enjoyed the visit greatly. Is really a shame that US citizens have to go through this crap mainly due to the ...-kissing of politicians to the Cuban lobby in South Florida. (there I made a political statement so what ??)
You will go through a bit of a culture shock as Havana looks like a '60s movie.
The cheapest way to go is to fly to the Bahamas and fly Cubana from there or alternately fly to Montego Bay or Kingston Jamaica and go by Air Jamaica.(2 flights per day) If you want to avoid US dollars get Euros as these are accepted now, also a non-US Mastercard.
Enjoy Pollo Baracoa, papaya yogurt, roast pork and the very refreshing water-melon juices.
Mike

I'm also planning a trip to Cuba for spring break. As a US citizen living in Canada, I don't see any problems--I'm "supposed" to be in Canada in the first place, so there won't be any questions there. Many times, US citizens coming through Canada in January will go directly home and go through US-preclearance in Canadian airports, tan and wearing summer clothes--highly suspicious to immigration officers. As I won't be going to the US for some time after returning from Cuba, I don't see how they can figure anything out.

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regards,
brian

The problem with flying from Jamaica is that the Jamaicans will stamp your passport "Departure to Cuba". You can fly from Nassau on Cubana (it's quite cheap as I recall) and the Bahamians won't stamp your passport.



[This message has been edited by laxth (edited 10-18-2002).]

I am going to Cuba LEGALLY for a holidays/new years trip. It is not the 70s anymore and it is fairly easy to obtain permission from the Treasury to go. I am going through YYZ. If you haven't booked a trip yet http://www.grupotaca.com had cheap flights from YYZ to HAV ($401 coach $620 biz)on LACSA.
As long as you don't get your passport stamped by the Cuban immigration, you should have no problems. Go for it!!!!!!!


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"I just wanna wish you good luck, we're all counting on you"
-Dr. Rumack

If you are purely interested in a beach or traditional tour vacation then go with the previous suggestions however you will miss out on the best reason to go to Cuba, which is meeting some real Cubans as opposed to tourist staff. I would look into
www.globalexchange.org
www.witnessforpeace.org
Both groups offer amazing trips (usually with a couple relaxing days at Varadero) where you get to really do some learning about Cuba. They are 100% legal and you could extend your trip a week or 2 after the group portion in order to get some time to yourself and relax. These groups offer educational tours so they are a bit intense however there is no better way to learn about what Cuba is REALLY like. Forget the Nacional and the tourist traps....you can get the beautiful hotels and toursit Caribbean in Puerto Rico for cheaper. Cuba is an amazing place otherwise you wouldnt be interested in going. I spent almost 6 months there on 2 trips and saw plenty of Havanatour buses etc. The packaged tours dont give a good sense of the true music, food and dancing. Do Cuba right. Drop me an email with any questions.

"I" was there legally both times and do not suggest trying to skirt the rules. W has actually begun to enforce them unlike Clinton. There is nothing like getting a $7,000 fine in the mail 2 weeks after you return from Cuba.