Nightmare in Cairo Egypt - trip report
 

Folks,
Beware as con artist in Cairo are getting updated on any travel review on Cairo has from CNN and other sites which I did read to avoid them.

My latest trip last week to Cairo was a disaster in terms of safety and my pocket.

Flew first class on SQ and my friend in coach and at that time of Apr 2nd one has to argue
the Silver Kris lounge person to bring in a visitor. Showing my First class boarding pass won't allow my friend to enter, and she also mentioned of the lounge is full but when I showed my UA 1K card, she then refered to one thick list of *A showing all Gold and Silver levels of each *A members. She found the 1K image card printed in color in her list and she says OK. Entered the lounge and found out that there is only a few first class pax.

Arrived in Singapore for connection to Cairo, again showed my UA 1K card to the Silver Kris lounge lady and guess, she mentioned the lounge is full (remember above - SQ teach them to lie thru their teeth and you can sense it) and they don't recognise the 1K card and I say fine and brought my friend to another *A lounge across the foodcourt and showed my 1K card and both of us are in. Anyway, this lounge is not a good as the Sliver Kris lounge and I told my friend to wait in this lounge while I go back to the Silver Kris lounge.

As I arrived at the lounge, the lady did recognise me and ask where is my friend and I told her that I managed to get him into another lounge and she says sorry for the inconvinience. As I entered the first class section of the lounge, again just a few pax and man, they really want to tell BS by saying their lounge is full. Be aware that SQ lounge doesn't make flight announcement so don't dooze off or you will miss your flight.

Plane took off and as usual a very high standard of SQ First class service compare to my UA like crap. Gave everyone a Givenchy pyjama sets for the night. Arrive in Dubai but unfortunately was delay there due to a malfunction of the plane hydrolic system. Luckily they have detected while on the ground and not in the air. Was told 3 times of the flight delay until they ship us all for First and Raffles class pax to Hyatt Dubai and coach pax to Marco hotel. We waited from 4am for departure until 2pm before we took off to Cairo. Was I dead tired eventough SQ has provided rooms but at the last moment at 10am. 6 hours in the First class lounge and 2 1/2 hours in hotel. At least they provided us with breakfast twice at the airport and hotel, and also a gift for the long delay.

At last arrived in Cairo and what a rundown airport and only 4 immigration counters open up for lots of pax lining up. Was greeted by a Hilton staff but he was quite inpatient to chase us off from the airport to the limo stand which I have reserve and I got an old Puegeot car with no air cond and let me remind you folks Cairo was in the low 30's Celsius and it was hot and humid.

Arrived at the hotel but please be reminded that the limo drivers wants a big tip before opening up the car trunk and room was not upgraded automatically but have to asked and the staff said show me your Gold card. Luckily, I did printed out the front page showing my status. Entered our room and it was the usual size for Hilton/Conrad Intl small eventough on the Executive floor. Later a mini bar guy came in and put something into the fridge which I was puzzle as we just checkin and here comes a person refilling the mini bar. Later found out they charge to my room thinking we were the one whom used the mini bar which in my lifetime, I have never use a minibar.

Second day, we decide to skip the tour package and have our own adventure. (Please, if anyone wants to go to Egypt, please use a well known tour agent to do the tour for you or you will receive the consequences). We had to bargain the taxi driver as most don't speak English but Arabic, I told him in simple Arabic of LE 30 to go to the Pyramids of Giza. He says OK and off we go in a dusty city full of dust and smog. Before arriving at the Giza, comes a person saying that he needs a ride to the Giza where his house is. My biggest mistake of letting in this sweet talking guy who cons us into taking some back alley roads and I didn't feel safe as I am bringing someone with me and the best is to go with where the driver took us for a ride.

Here comes the major scam of the Egyptian people: The driver eventough negotiated for LE 30 still wants and additional LE 5, fine, then the other guy took us to his boss and saying there is no obligation to take their guided services to the Pyramids. I mentioned to them to take us to the front gates of the Pyramids but the owner doesn't want to inform the taxi driver to wait but instead told him to go away. So, stuck near the pyramids but both of us can go anywhere but to agree on whatever the owner of the stables says. He wants in US Dollars and if you mentioned Egyptian dollars, he will use his own outrageuous rate. The owner mentioned the money we have paid covers everything from gate entrance, guide, camels, horse and Pyramids entrance. We were wrong when the guide himself asked more money also in USD to pay off the guards and take us to back alley of the Pyramids and we sense something was wrong as both the guides didn't want to pass thru in front of the Pyramids but stay far in a distance. A trip which was suppose to cost us only about LE 100, cost us USD 200 each inluding myself and my friend. Anyway, since life is more precious than the USD 200, we came back to the hotel after another taxi driver wants LE 40 back to the hotel. We decided not to argue but quickly leave the place fast from this USD hungry thugs.

So, I asked the hotel on how to complaint to the Egyptian Tourism govt dept and was given a look. If anyone out there decides to visit Egypt, enjoy but be careful, we didn't like the trip at all everything you will have to bargain and everything these Egyptian wants is to harass you and then wants lots of money for service sometimes not rendered or lousy including my hotel Conrad Intl for meet and assist when I made reservation for the limo back to airport myself with the limo company.
It is even safer and less hassle when one travels in China and their taxis uses meters and in Egypt, meters are just for show. So avoid Egypt like plaque unless you have the stomach to take all the harrass and abuses.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif

I had a similar experience in Cairo, except I pretty much enjoyed it. Yes, the customs lines are long (about the same as SFO), but I brought a book. Yes, you will get pressured to go on such and such a tour. I just ignored that and went on my way. You didn't say which Hilton, but I stayed at the Ramses Hilton and it was OK. Not great, but OK. (I won a bundle in the penthouse casino!)

So I asked the concierge to find me a driver to Giza and he did. I gave the driver a fair wage and yes, he took me to the Pyramids for horseback riding and later to a series of shops. I knew he was getting a kick-back from the horse owners and shopkeepers, but I didn't mind. I got lots of neat stuff. I ended up spending about $500 U.S., but if you walk around my living room and see the Papyrus paintings I got you'd say it was a steal. Plus I got to ride a horse around the pyramids. That's priceless.

I think I understand how frustrating your experiences were; I had similar problems not long ago with cab drivers, a couple of tour guides, and a boatman. Not to mention Egyptair. But I found that a very small price to pay for the wonders of Dahshur, Sakkara, Abu Simbel, Karnak and Luxor Temples, the Valleys of the Kings and Queens, and cruising the Nile.

QuietLion is waiting for this one:

Did you consider threatening them with locusts, boils, or frogs? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/eek.gif

(Actually, I spent 3 weeks working in Egypt about 21 years ago and had a great time... even when this guy at the pyramids got me up on a camel despite my vociferously stated disinclination!) http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by RichG (edited 04-10-2000).]

Visits to developing nations can be extraordinary experiences. Enriching, shocking, frustrating, rewarding. Daniel's experiences are common in some countries, but as other FT posters have wisely added to his informative post, the memories and experiences are irreplaceable, really, I mean that sincerely.

My brief 3 weeks or so in Egypt in 1984 has left me with memories (and stories) I absolutely cherish.

Cali

When that happens to me I just slay all the first-born sons.

Excellent to hear as we are going in December.

I've been all kinds of places in my life, and Egypt was one of my favorites. It was one of those trips where we had 2 1/2 weeks between flights, and no plans other than a hotel room in Cairo for the first couple of nights.

We took the "tourist" train (run by Sofitel) to Luxor and stayed there for a few nights. Yes, the touts were awful, you just had to learn to ignore them no matter what they said. It seems rude, but remember, they're being extraordinarily rude to you, hoping you'll give in and respond. But the temples and tombs were outstanding. The Valley of the Kings was cool, but other things were just as fantastic. The age of things was amazing. Early Christian era stuff built around the temples, that would would have been revered as ancient ruins in Europe, was just discarded on a trash heap as so much detritus.

We then took the train back to Cairo, then transferred to Alexandria for a night. Then took a long bus ride to Siwa, an oasis in the desert. The Sand Sea had dunes like the Sahara you've always imagined.

Then we went back to Cairo for the last couple of nights.

Lots of places I've enjoyed, but Egypt still appears in my dreams.

I might sound a little aggressive, but I read your report and my heart is definitely not bleeding for you.

I've met so many tourists like you and to tell you the truth, I think you should start growing up and leave some of your expectations at home.

You travelled to Egypt, my friend, not to New York or Singapore or Hong Kong. Had you at least read one single travel brochure over Egypt, you would have knowned that travelling can still be a fabulous adventure with all the ups and downs, that make traveling in foreign countries so exciting.

Basic research would have saved you a lot of trouble and a little humour would have made your trip great. You poor one, you had to sweat a little... Why did you not choose Norway or Greenland? I find it already wonderful that after so much delay there was still a car waiting for you and probably at no extra cost as it would have been the case with Carey in NYC...

One of the main rule in Egypt is price haggling. Try to learn the sport and you'll be fine as well as also respected.

Take your last trip as an experience to learn from and go again, you'll have a great time next time.

Basically I would agree with magexpect, although I might not have expressed myself in such a forthright manner. However, if you are used to instant service, clean streets (a la Singapore), etc... then Egypt just istn't going to be a place that you will like. I worked in Egypt for just under a year. The Egyptians are lovely people. When I got to know them I discovered that more often than not if they tell an "untruth", it's not to trick you or gain advantage but because they like to tell you what you want to hear!

Spending time in Egypt, as some posters have said, can be a wonderful experience, but you have to make allowances for the different culture.

Constant rudeness and harrassment is not part of the Egyptian culture. It may be part of the tourist experience, but it certainly not part of the culture. These blokes know what they are doing and they are taking advantage of tourists weakness and kindness.

Nethertheless, a few words of Arabic, some local knowledge and an understanding that some tipping to the right people who help you can make a big difference. As far as the touts around the Giza "trap" is concerned - may they all rot . . . . . . The local Police know they are a hassle and that is why they refuse to take you through the main entrance.

My last remaining relative in Cairo arranged for me to take day tours organised by the American Express office. There are also large Egyptian tour operators who organise bus tours. We went everywhere in a mini van and had absalutely no hassles.

I guess I should have done my Cairo trip report sooner, so fellow FT'ers didn't get conned, like you did. I had a similar experience, staying at Sheraton Cairo. Sounds like the same modus operandi. I am not surprised that there is an underground operation to lure unsuspecting tourists. One word of caution, trust noone in Egypt, no matter how helpful they are.

I think all the posts here have excellent and valid views!

Yes, no matter how open minded you are, some things can end up ruining your vacation. I've been travelling in Europe, west and East, SE Asia, Middle East, backpacking and upper end, and I've had awesome experiences with the right attitude adjustments.

and to the above, would you really trust EVERYONE in New York or LA, I wouldnt, there is cons everywhere, I've felt more safe in what we would call '3rd world' countries than I did walking around New York or Detroit.

Egypt
 

Just returned from Egypt and had the most wonderful time. I think that perhaps for some people it is better to travel with a tour group. We had absolutely no problems until three of us decided to take a very short horse and buggy ride. Seems like we set ourselves up to be taken advantage of. Fortunately, there was a tourist policeman walking by who we motioned over and although he probably could not understand us it was enough to change the tune of the buggy driver. Our guide later told us we should have gotten his buggy number and he would have reported the driver. I loved Egypt and the trip was fantastic. But, I am happy we were with a group of 7 and the guide who was constantly taking care of us. Besides the amazing sights, I found the Egyptian people very kind and to have a great sense of humor.

A great read!
 

Danial, great travelogue, in the finest Joycean style. Have you considered writing a book about your experiences?

>>I've felt more safe in what we would call '3rd world' countries than I did walking around New York or Detroit.<<

With all due respect, I have walked in New York at 3 am and felt safe. Crime is way down there. And in regards to Detroit, I used to go a lot on business there. As far as I recall, there was no where to walk to anyway. Just stayed in my hotel room.

I agree. NYC crime has gone way down. Besides, the type of crime is usually mugging. In Egypt, it is mostly trickery, especially on unsuspecting tourist. Do not get conned, especially by the so-call tourist ambassadors that hunt you down as you exit the airport.

I must say that, while this report is very informative, I had a completely opposite experience in Egypt over Spring Break with a group from my college. We went to a debate tournament at the American University, and also stayed an extra week to do tourist-type things.

I had an amazing trip -- from wandering the streets and bazaars to bargaining for taxi's and even for an ISIC card, it was all fun. Yes, the touts are there, and they will take you if they can -- but, thats part of the package that you sign up for by going to a developing country. As in America, and elsewhere, everyone is out to make a living in any way they can -- and American college kids gleefully throwing around dollars make as good a target as any.

If you do go, some tips...

-Go to the Pyramids early in the morning; we went at 5:30am after coming off the overnight train from Luxor and were able to bribe the morning guard to let us climb up the third pyramid. Plus, very few things beat racing the rising sun through the desert as you approach the site from the backside (the guides will take you this way, because the main entrance is closed before 8).

-Know when to bargain; in my experience, the people in our group who had the best time remembered not to sweat the small things -- if you get charged an extra 5L by a driver, remember that its 70 cents! People in our group who fought for every last EGP ended up getting in fights and feeling upset about their experiences.

Hope everyone enjoys their trips!

744

Sorry you didn't enjoy your trip. I think it's a remarkable city, and had a brilliant trip there last November which I talked about here- http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182221 - it ain't Disneyland but it is the real world!

Wow.. sorry to hear about your trip. Egypt is certainly an experience.. good or bad can really depend on how patient you are.. the constant hassle from touts and requests for baksheesh are certainly annoying at best but usually they will not become threatening... to them you are jus a walking dollar sign. My wife and I went in July last year when it seemed there were no tourists and had a mixed time (the only place we have become sick from the food, and we were careful of what we eat).. we hired a driver for the day and we were the only ones at the pyramids in Dashur (the bent pyramid) and even the crowds at Giza were nearly nonexistent. Sure we got scammed ($100 for 4 papyrus that I could have gotten for $25), and USD$20 for the buggy ride around the pyramids.

What is the best rate anyone has been able to haggle for a taxi into town/Conrad? Last year was 40LE, this year 45LE was the best they would accept. $7.25 for two people I suppose isn't too bad.

Taxi!
 

Out of town you could get it down to 20LE if you let a couple go by, so I guess 30LE for the way in? Or 2LE on the bus...

I paid $100 for 4 as well, perhaps the same store? :D

There were many japanese tourist that was snapping up papyrus like there was no tomorrow. I was there during Ramadan last year, not the best time to visit, but the weather was good.

How's the Conrad?

Age of initial post
 

Just wondering if everyone's noticed that the original trip report in this thread is over 4 years old at this point - it would be interesting to know if the situation for tourists has changed given all the changes in our "traveling environment".

Alec in PVD

AlecM,

I "brought the thread back" as I rarely think there is a need to reinvent the wheel and like to see feedback in one place rather than multiple threads. I am also traveling to Egypt this December and was curious if others felt the same way as the original poster.

The original poster IMO did not seem prepared for the "hassle" he experienced in Egypt. As evidenced by the responses, getting hassled seems to be par for the course BUT knowing what to expect is extremely important in my enjoyment of traveling to a new destination.

Its all about managing expectations.

Willie

Egyptian in Sunglasses
 

So many got on Danial for posting his unpleasant, to say the least, experience. First of all, if you book and pay for an AC car and they show up and say, "its this or nothing, pay up", that is just plain stealing - in any culture. And, I'm glad he posted, so I know now to make sure, if I do go, to take a well-guided tour, and not to venture off. He did admit this was his own fault. Thank you, Danial.

Plus, I wouldn't want to get taken and sold into slavery, because, you know, they do that there if they get you alone :D

oh, p.s., did the Conrad have a special Cairo teddy bear on the bed? Or maybe a camel instead of a duck on the bath edge?

I can see everyone's perspective - but...

Many peoples' culture include a lack of tolerance for directness - they will tell you what they think you want to hear, as they consider being direct rude.

Some are fatalistic - "Si Dios lo manda" in Latin America is the same as "inshallah" - let it be God's will. That incoudes a cook preparing fresh food over reoaing flames, which lick a boat cowling where an oxygen tank is lying, unfastened... if God wills it, there's nothing he can do to protect himself, and if God doesn't want him to die, it doesn't matter what he does, anyway.

Put the two together - you have a timed event to make, you ask the driver if you wil lget there on time (in Cairo's nasty traffic,) and the driver will reply "inshallah". He just can't bring himself to say "not bloody likely, mate!"

Relax, let your blood pressure normalize, do a little contingency planning and give yourself lots of extra time. Realize things are more... "flexible" than you are used to at home.

Many places are rife with poverty - desperate people will use depserate measures. When they come into contact with people who are naive and seem to be as rich as Croesus, they will do what they can to separate that person from some of their money.

And there are, of course, professional cons - the "papyrus institute" and "carpet school" are common ones that separate tourists from some of their money, but in fact, not separate from ALL of even an important part of you money, like Enron or some other white collar criminals have done in the "first world."

Realize - papyrii are everywhere, cranked out like "by the numbers" paintings. Look around, get an idea of reasonable prices, bargain a little - it means you care and aren't a total fool - then buy what you like.

A "carpet shcool" isn't training children for a lifetime career - children have the smallest hands and can do the finest work. If you want that lovely finely-woven carpet, don't kid yourself, you are patronizing child labor, and today's fine weaver will likely be tomorrow's taxi driver, for whom an extra 20 Egyptian Pounds means he can feed his family better today, and it is perhaps less than you would pay for one drink.

Egpyt's wonders are incredible, and the culture has ancient roots, even though it is splitting apart at the seams. Do some research, make goals, use reputable agencies, be open to friendships - and realize anyone who approaches you openly on the street as an old friend, here or at home, is highly suspect in his / her intentions.

The culture is definitely different - even at the airport, you will notice the non-smoking departure lounge is ratty, tatty, crowded and bustling - not where yo want to rest - and the smokers' lounge is modern, spacious, comfortable and may not have many smokers. That's because most of the folks using the nonsmokers' are foreigners with no status in the culture, and those using the smoking lounge are often Egyptian politicians, powerful people, etc. (Who esle can afford a lounge membership?) and many of them smoke.

So, remember: we personify our countrymen and origins, so we have to be on our best, and to benefit most, we can refrain from personalizing. We personify, but it's not healthy to personalize too much and allow it to upset us, when it's not about us at all.

Travel is for those who seek differences - if you can't handle them, be selective in where you go; everyone will be happier for it. This is said with no nasty intent - it's just the truth.

Bon voyage, buen viaje, au sa lia mada, safari njema! Oh, and have a good trip. :D

Paid 40 LE for the round trip and kept the driver waiting an hour and a half while we toured a little and then had a beverage at the Cafe. Has anyone palyed golf at the course there? I saw it as we were leaving and thought it would be kinda cool to play under the pyramids. :-: