Are we Crazy? Europe with a Baby! CDG-CPH-FLR
Sep 3, 2023, 11:16 am
#1
formerly DreAAmliner
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 419
Are we Crazy? Europe with a Baby! CDG-CPH-FLR
Background:
My wife and I had our first child back in December of last year. We pledged that it would not prevent us from travel, and to some degree we had no choice as all the grandparents live a flight away from us. As soon as she was born, we got her passport so that we could visit family in YVR. Shortly after receiving, we applied for her Global Entry, was conditionally approved, and completed her “interview upon arrival” at 5:00 am leaving YVR back in the spring. By the end of this trip report, she will have logged 19 flight legs… Full credit to my wife who is a Rockstar with her on the plane.
Stepping back to January 2020, we were planning a trip to Europe with my in-laws who had not ever been to Europe, let alone in a premium cabin. They have seen how my wife and I travel and cannot believe that its done purely on points. I can’t imagine what kind of side-hustle they think I have… After learning how many Chase UR points they had, I was excited to let them know that they need not sacrifice any amount of luxury for our trip. My goal was to book a trip for the four of us for that summer to Italy. After getting the flights booked, and while looking into hotels, boom went the dynamite...
Fast forward to winter of this year – after my wife and I got some reps flying with a baby, we got cocky and thought that this could be a great time to try and organize the same trip! Our baby would be ~8 months in the summer, young enough to not be able to run away from us, but old enough to hopefully have a decent sleeping pattern. Everyone agreed and the hunt for award space to Europe was on.
NOTE/PSA: Traveling with a baby was full contact, so unfortunately I do not have as many photos of airports/airplanes as I would have wanted.
Booking:
Because this was my in-laws first premium cabin trip, we wanted to try and travel all together on the same flights. Therefore, I needed to find space for four (lap infant), and really wanted it to be ex-DFW. I’m normally very ok with positioning flights, but that’s not super ideal with a baby. We just wanted to get TATL, and potentially position on the other side.
This was NOT an easy task, and took countless hours on UA/AC/AA websites. Anytime I would find four saver seats one direction, I could not pair them with opposite direction availability. Plus, all of these would require positioning on this side of the pond with annoying ~7 hour layovers. Then, I came across a blog article discussing AF and the CDG stopover allowance. This was a gamechanger, as AF had so many more saver seats ex-DFW, with a lot of flights showing up to 8. After playing around with the calendar search, calling in to put on hold several itineraries, and many hours of work and frustration, I became fairly savvy at understanding how award travel on AF works. To be fair, we had flown AF the summer prior but it was a simple one-way non-stop that required nothing complicated.
The next question became “Where to go”? Now that we knew we would fly TATL both ways on AF, we needed to determine how to structure it all based on what saver-level flights were available ex-CDG to piece onto our stopover. The helpful news was that there were not many options, and we decided on a 3-day stopover in Paris, with onward travel to CPH. To accomplish this, one must find saver level DFW-CDG space (70k miles), plus saver level CDG-CPH space (9k miles if I recall) on the days you want to travel. The fascinating part of this is, when this gets combined, it prices the same as DFW-CDG-CPH which, oddly enough, is only 66,500 miles. So, this was a surprise win. After piecing this together, I started to look at DFW-CDG Layover-CPH and realized that AF has a unreal amount of hidden-city opportunities, as MANY days priced at 66,500 when there was very little DFW-CDG saver alone. Moral of the AF story, and I may be really late to the party, is that there are seemingly great hidden-city opportunities if you have no interest in visiting Paris. Especially ex-DFW which is notoriously hard to find saver space for all other airlines.
BIG downside was the lap infant cost of 10% of the cash fare. I know this is fairly common, and I was ok with this as AF had significantly more availability. Quick $850 round-trip though.
Copy and paste this process for the return, FLR-CDG Layover-DFW, with a neat Norwegian CPH-PSA leg in the middle, and we had ourselves an itinerary! Here goes nothing!
Stop #1 – Paris
AF159 DFW-CDG
Airbus A350-900
Seats 2E/F
Inbound landing, as viewed from the DFW Capital-One lounge
First Wide-Body!
The Bellevoye French Whiskey was actually very nice. BUT, dear AF, please HEAT UP THE BUTTER
Best photo of my life
Diamond breakfast for her too
Lebanese ice cream from Bachir - absolutely wonderful
Musee D'Orsay was PACKED
Thats the closest a bottle has ever gotten to The Starry Night...
Actual photo of me after booking this trip for everyone
Actual sculpture of me when I'm #1 on the UG list and the flight is J0
Metro was a bit busy...
Obligatory... But wow, so many "influencers" taking photos on this street.
For Paris, The in-laws booked Hotel San Regis, an SLH through Hyatt. My wife and I used a combination of points/FNCs for the Paris Hilton Opera, somewhere we had stayed many years back. As a diamond member, my goal was to get a suite. The standard award room was quite small, as expected. Upon checking in, I asked ultra-politely if a suite was available, knowing full well that one was bookable for that night online. I even offered that we would be happy to switch back to the original room later in the trip, but it would mean a lot to have a suite as many nights as possible. I was told “None were available, but if one became available they would reach out to me that day”. Hmm. After a day out in the city, I ignorantly asked the same question to a different frond desk associate. She said they had one, but that it would only be available for two of the three nights. She asked me if I “was ok staying in my current room, or if I wanted her to call her manager to get approval”, as though she would hope I would just stay put. I was not super happy with her tactics, so I absolutely asked her to get approval from her manager. We got a king suite, which I thought I took photos of, but my photo library seems to think otherwise… The room was old and tired, save for the really nice bathroom, and it is crazy that anyone would spend close to $1k USD on that. I do not plan on returning to this hotel.
Next Up - Copenhagen!
My wife and I had our first child back in December of last year. We pledged that it would not prevent us from travel, and to some degree we had no choice as all the grandparents live a flight away from us. As soon as she was born, we got her passport so that we could visit family in YVR. Shortly after receiving, we applied for her Global Entry, was conditionally approved, and completed her “interview upon arrival” at 5:00 am leaving YVR back in the spring. By the end of this trip report, she will have logged 19 flight legs… Full credit to my wife who is a Rockstar with her on the plane.
Stepping back to January 2020, we were planning a trip to Europe with my in-laws who had not ever been to Europe, let alone in a premium cabin. They have seen how my wife and I travel and cannot believe that its done purely on points. I can’t imagine what kind of side-hustle they think I have… After learning how many Chase UR points they had, I was excited to let them know that they need not sacrifice any amount of luxury for our trip. My goal was to book a trip for the four of us for that summer to Italy. After getting the flights booked, and while looking into hotels, boom went the dynamite...
Fast forward to winter of this year – after my wife and I got some reps flying with a baby, we got cocky and thought that this could be a great time to try and organize the same trip! Our baby would be ~8 months in the summer, young enough to not be able to run away from us, but old enough to hopefully have a decent sleeping pattern. Everyone agreed and the hunt for award space to Europe was on.
NOTE/PSA: Traveling with a baby was full contact, so unfortunately I do not have as many photos of airports/airplanes as I would have wanted.
Booking:
Because this was my in-laws first premium cabin trip, we wanted to try and travel all together on the same flights. Therefore, I needed to find space for four (lap infant), and really wanted it to be ex-DFW. I’m normally very ok with positioning flights, but that’s not super ideal with a baby. We just wanted to get TATL, and potentially position on the other side.
This was NOT an easy task, and took countless hours on UA/AC/AA websites. Anytime I would find four saver seats one direction, I could not pair them with opposite direction availability. Plus, all of these would require positioning on this side of the pond with annoying ~7 hour layovers. Then, I came across a blog article discussing AF and the CDG stopover allowance. This was a gamechanger, as AF had so many more saver seats ex-DFW, with a lot of flights showing up to 8. After playing around with the calendar search, calling in to put on hold several itineraries, and many hours of work and frustration, I became fairly savvy at understanding how award travel on AF works. To be fair, we had flown AF the summer prior but it was a simple one-way non-stop that required nothing complicated.
The next question became “Where to go”? Now that we knew we would fly TATL both ways on AF, we needed to determine how to structure it all based on what saver-level flights were available ex-CDG to piece onto our stopover. The helpful news was that there were not many options, and we decided on a 3-day stopover in Paris, with onward travel to CPH. To accomplish this, one must find saver level DFW-CDG space (70k miles), plus saver level CDG-CPH space (9k miles if I recall) on the days you want to travel. The fascinating part of this is, when this gets combined, it prices the same as DFW-CDG-CPH which, oddly enough, is only 66,500 miles. So, this was a surprise win. After piecing this together, I started to look at DFW-CDG Layover-CPH and realized that AF has a unreal amount of hidden-city opportunities, as MANY days priced at 66,500 when there was very little DFW-CDG saver alone. Moral of the AF story, and I may be really late to the party, is that there are seemingly great hidden-city opportunities if you have no interest in visiting Paris. Especially ex-DFW which is notoriously hard to find saver space for all other airlines.
BIG downside was the lap infant cost of 10% of the cash fare. I know this is fairly common, and I was ok with this as AF had significantly more availability. Quick $850 round-trip though.
Copy and paste this process for the return, FLR-CDG Layover-DFW, with a neat Norwegian CPH-PSA leg in the middle, and we had ourselves an itinerary! Here goes nothing!
Stop #1 – Paris
AF159 DFW-CDG
Airbus A350-900
Seats 2E/F
Inbound landing, as viewed from the DFW Capital-One lounge
First Wide-Body!
The Bellevoye French Whiskey was actually very nice. BUT, dear AF, please HEAT UP THE BUTTER
Best photo of my life
Diamond breakfast for her too
Lebanese ice cream from Bachir - absolutely wonderful
Musee D'Orsay was PACKED
Thats the closest a bottle has ever gotten to The Starry Night...
Actual photo of me after booking this trip for everyone
Actual sculpture of me when I'm #1 on the UG list and the flight is J0
Metro was a bit busy...
Obligatory... But wow, so many "influencers" taking photos on this street.
For Paris, The in-laws booked Hotel San Regis, an SLH through Hyatt. My wife and I used a combination of points/FNCs for the Paris Hilton Opera, somewhere we had stayed many years back. As a diamond member, my goal was to get a suite. The standard award room was quite small, as expected. Upon checking in, I asked ultra-politely if a suite was available, knowing full well that one was bookable for that night online. I even offered that we would be happy to switch back to the original room later in the trip, but it would mean a lot to have a suite as many nights as possible. I was told “None were available, but if one became available they would reach out to me that day”. Hmm. After a day out in the city, I ignorantly asked the same question to a different frond desk associate. She said they had one, but that it would only be available for two of the three nights. She asked me if I “was ok staying in my current room, or if I wanted her to call her manager to get approval”, as though she would hope I would just stay put. I was not super happy with her tactics, so I absolutely asked her to get approval from her manager. We got a king suite, which I thought I took photos of, but my photo library seems to think otherwise… The room was old and tired, save for the really nice bathroom, and it is crazy that anyone would spend close to $1k USD on that. I do not plan on returning to this hotel.
Next Up - Copenhagen!
Sep 3, 2023, 5:59 pm
#4
formerly DreAAmliner
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 419
Thanks! We got a "Throw Away" from amazon for the trip that wa sunder $100 and it held up surprisingly well. Also, those cobblestone streets got her to sleep better than anything we could have tried.
Sep 3, 2023, 7:13 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: GM on VX, UA, AA, HA, AS, SY; Budget Fastbreak
Posts: 27,601
Great TR - we took our baby to paris & Provence for 3 total weeks at age 10 months. Mega fun. We used our everyday Baby Jogger brand stroller and used bungee cords to tie it down. We also bought a ticket for our baby.
Sep 3, 2023, 7:16 pm
#6
formerly DreAAmliner
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 419
Thus far, our only Scandinavian experience had been Iceland. And while Copenhagen was going to more city and less wilderness, we were very excited nonetheless. With an extra early flight, we stayed the night before at the CDG Hyatt Place. Forgot to take photos, but it was quite nice. We were prepared, but just as a PSA, the shuttle does not begin operating until 7am and there is no transit to the airport. So, Uber it was. I completely forgot to take a photo of our exceptional meal for a 1h30 flight. It included a poached egg that a fancy restaurant would be hard pressed to execute as well. I cant tell what I prefer, bad seats and a meal or nice seats and a snack basket. It's a conundrum.
Flight #2
AF1750
Seats 1D&F
First time in AF T2F Salon. Two stories and really nice. Food was solid and Whiskey available at 6am, in case anyone is worried.
Long bus ride to the remote stand to find our brand new A220
Not quite as much room as the A350...
Air France was vigilant about the infant seatbelt. Not a criticism, just an obervation
A little time with Grandma in 2F
After we landed, it was an incredibly easy 3-stop train from the airport to the Copenhagen main terminal, where our hotel, Villa Copenhagen, was directly across the street. This was the only paid booking of the trip via Amex FHR and was easily one of the best hotels we have ever stayed at. Everything about it was exceptional, from the service to the decor to the unreal breakfast buffet (still trying to find photos, and will update if i do). Additionally, the restaurant in the hotel, Kontrast, was fantastic and the best use of a FHR $100 credit. Cannot recommend this property more.
Lobby Bar
Copenhagen Photo Dump:
Copenhagen was a great food city and had some of the freshest food I have ever had:
Torvehallerne Food Market - just wow.
Was just walking by and hungry. We got lucky, it was fantastic.
Walked in for lunch and was laughed at that we didn't have a reservation :/ So we made one for dinner
"Traditional" Danish food
Steak Tartar
Smoked Halibut
Traditional Fish Cakes
Steamed fish and shrimp
Then was the meal at the restaurant in the hotel, Kontrast.
Just fantastic.
Spicy Crudo
Fish Rissotto
Steak and Carrots 3-ways
Mushrooms
After a few days of walking in the city and eating our bodyweight each day, another early wakeup for a 7am flight to PSA. Copenhagen became on of our top places to visit. Can't wait to come back.
Tuscany is next!
Flight #2
AF1750
Seats 1D&F
First time in AF T2F Salon. Two stories and really nice. Food was solid and Whiskey available at 6am, in case anyone is worried.
Long bus ride to the remote stand to find our brand new A220
Not quite as much room as the A350...
Air France was vigilant about the infant seatbelt. Not a criticism, just an obervation
A little time with Grandma in 2F
After we landed, it was an incredibly easy 3-stop train from the airport to the Copenhagen main terminal, where our hotel, Villa Copenhagen, was directly across the street. This was the only paid booking of the trip via Amex FHR and was easily one of the best hotels we have ever stayed at. Everything about it was exceptional, from the service to the decor to the unreal breakfast buffet (still trying to find photos, and will update if i do). Additionally, the restaurant in the hotel, Kontrast, was fantastic and the best use of a FHR $100 credit. Cannot recommend this property more.
Lobby Bar
Copenhagen Photo Dump:
Copenhagen was a great food city and had some of the freshest food I have ever had:
Torvehallerne Food Market - just wow.
Was just walking by and hungry. We got lucky, it was fantastic.
Walked in for lunch and was laughed at that we didn't have a reservation :/ So we made one for dinner
"Traditional" Danish food
Steak Tartar
Smoked Halibut
Traditional Fish Cakes
Steamed fish and shrimp
Then was the meal at the restaurant in the hotel, Kontrast.
Just fantastic.
Spicy Crudo
Fish Rissotto
Steak and Carrots 3-ways
Mushrooms
After a few days of walking in the city and eating our bodyweight each day, another early wakeup for a 7am flight to PSA. Copenhagen became on of our top places to visit. Can't wait to come back.
Tuscany is next!
Last edited by ER-One; Sep 3, 2023 at 7:23 pm
Sep 4, 2023, 2:43 am
#7
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,592
Great TR, but those babyface cover-ups are seriously annoying. And who needs to see endless photos of the same weird baby sitting in seats/lying on beds anyway?
Sep 4, 2023, 6:44 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,719
My computer has a scroll function. Perhaps you can download such a thing. Anyway the baby looks to be enjoying her adventure which is very nice. 👍
Sep 4, 2023, 6:46 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2005
Programs: IHG Diamond Ambassador, Accor Plat, M&M FTL, BA Blue, QR Gold
Posts: 3,730
And not showing a person's face on a public internet forum w/o consent (and babies can't consent) should be the norm.
Sep 4, 2023, 2:35 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 11,581
I can see lots of faces of people who didn’t consent in this report.
Sep 6, 2023, 8:08 am
#12
formerly DreAAmliner
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 419
Serve me veggies in Scandinavia and I'm all for it!
Sep 17, 2023, 9:58 am
#14
formerly DreAAmliner
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 419
Heading South!
Another early alarm clock for a 7:30am flight to PSA on Norwegian in a brand new 7M8.
Flight #3
D8 3736
737 Max-8
Nowhere near the front...
As we were waiting for our bags, my heart sank a moment as i realized i completely forgot to get a international driver's license from AAA before I left. Last time i was in Italy, the rental company asked to see it, so i assumed this was going to be an issue. Franticly, i found an online service and uploaded a photo of my DL, paid the "rush" fee and had one in my inbox right about when the bags arrived. Feeling very triumphant, my ego was quickly brought back in line when the Hertz associate practically laughed when i asked if they needed to see my international DL. A cool $50 economy stimulant that i will never see again...
It got us where we needed to go. Thats about it.
I found a GEM. Villa Petriolo. Recently joined the SLH family and was therefore bookable through Hyatt. And only a category 4! This was our frist time in Tuscany, and most people i know who have been have done so by renting a villa. We are more hotel people (if i want to make my bed, i can do that at home) so i was very please to find a Hyatt that was available. Everything about this property was fantastic. It is an old villa that was purchased and completely renovated. They have their own vineyard, make their own shower products, and have two excellent restaurants. The staff were super friendly and hospitable. Another interesting note was that this hotel seemed rather kid-friendly and had many families staying at the same time as us. There were a decent amount of children, which we were surprised at, but thankful for - as it lowered the pressure of ours behaving well
I would absolutely recommend this hotel and we will definitely be back.
100% the biggest letdown of the entire trip. I was so excited to see this in the room, but the coffee was terrible. it was very upsetting
SLH booked through Hyatt included free breakfast
Jacuzzi
One of the best parts of the hotel is the "Happy Hour" bar located atop the hill facing sunset. A perfect place to end the day before dinner.
A wine tasting...
...while she sleeps
Delicious
Delicious
Delicious
Fancy Delicious
Delicious
You get it...
After two awesome nights here, we are back in the car and off to the last stop, Florence.
Another early alarm clock for a 7:30am flight to PSA on Norwegian in a brand new 7M8.
Flight #3
D8 3736
737 Max-8
Nowhere near the front...
As we were waiting for our bags, my heart sank a moment as i realized i completely forgot to get a international driver's license from AAA before I left. Last time i was in Italy, the rental company asked to see it, so i assumed this was going to be an issue. Franticly, i found an online service and uploaded a photo of my DL, paid the "rush" fee and had one in my inbox right about when the bags arrived. Feeling very triumphant, my ego was quickly brought back in line when the Hertz associate practically laughed when i asked if they needed to see my international DL. A cool $50 economy stimulant that i will never see again...
It got us where we needed to go. Thats about it.
I found a GEM. Villa Petriolo. Recently joined the SLH family and was therefore bookable through Hyatt. And only a category 4! This was our frist time in Tuscany, and most people i know who have been have done so by renting a villa. We are more hotel people (if i want to make my bed, i can do that at home) so i was very please to find a Hyatt that was available. Everything about this property was fantastic. It is an old villa that was purchased and completely renovated. They have their own vineyard, make their own shower products, and have two excellent restaurants. The staff were super friendly and hospitable. Another interesting note was that this hotel seemed rather kid-friendly and had many families staying at the same time as us. There were a decent amount of children, which we were surprised at, but thankful for - as it lowered the pressure of ours behaving well
I would absolutely recommend this hotel and we will definitely be back.
100% the biggest letdown of the entire trip. I was so excited to see this in the room, but the coffee was terrible. it was very upsetting
SLH booked through Hyatt included free breakfast
Jacuzzi
One of the best parts of the hotel is the "Happy Hour" bar located atop the hill facing sunset. A perfect place to end the day before dinner.
A wine tasting...
...while she sleeps
Delicious
Delicious
Delicious
Fancy Delicious
Delicious
You get it...
After two awesome nights here, we are back in the car and off to the last stop, Florence.
Sep 25, 2023, 11:55 am
#15
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: GSO
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 776
Great report! We've also found that 8-9 months is a sweet spot in traveling with babies - just as you mentioned, they're generally old enough to sleep well at night, but usually not mobile enough to have opinions about where they want to go