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-   -   Age Prejudice??? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travelbuzz/992303-age-prejudice.html)

skyvanman Sep 6, 2009 7:20 pm

I don't think it is just you being singled out. I'm 21, and I get questioned as to why I am waiting in the Breezeway line very often. I travel in jeans and a t-shirt with a briefcase (filled with camera equipment) but still get questioned. In fact when I checked in at DEN for my most recent flight, the first thing he asked was "Are you sure you are in the right lane, this is for First Class." I then told him that not only was I first class but that I was Medallion (albeit just silver) and he seemed surprised and promptly got me my ticket while continuing to talk to his peers behind the counter and ignoring me. I've come to live with it, people don't understand how younger people can possibly be succesful, let alone fly as often as some of us do (you fly more than I do). The one airline where I have never experienced this is CO, I flew First Class LAX-PBI via Houston and was treated extremely well, not looked down upon at all.

flyingfran Sep 6, 2009 7:24 pm

Agencies that earn their living persuading all of us to buy a product, service, or political candidate invest billions of dollars in the process of researching what kinds of things cause people to respond in certain ways. What persuades us? There has never been a study when the appearance of a spokesman was not a factor in the persuasive appeal of the spokesman.

I am not saying this is right or fair or even moral. Certainly it would be nice if every person could be treated equitably regardless of appearance. Unfortunately, as wrong and unfair as this is, it is still a fact of life. What do you think when you see an obese woman? a five-year-old child with a pacifier in his mouth? a teen-ager who can only use one of his hands because the other has to hold his pants (8 sizes too large) at his waist? a man in overalls with manure on his boots? a person wearing three dirty shirts and clinging to a blanket with holes in it?

I really doubt that there are many of us who treat every single person we meet in the same equitable fashion. Even if we are not aware of it, we evaluate people on appearance within the first ten seconds.

The manager of any public figure can tell you that the quickest and most effective way to control perception is to control appearance. We can disagree about what level of "casual dress" is appropriate, but I doubt any of us will get on an airplane wearing the same thing we wore to mow the lawn, change the oil, paint the ceiling or pull weeds in the garden. At some fundamental level we all know that appearances make a difference.

I personally wish that this were not true. I wished we each would evaluate one another based on the quality of our actions, and the logic of our thoughts, and the strength of our characters. We don't, and no amount of discussing how wrong this is will change the fact that to some degree our appearance controls how others perceive us.

pentop Sep 6, 2009 7:37 pm

OP -- we STILL haven't heard what you consider "casual attire." I agree with the others. Your dress code is likely the case.

You don't have to dress up, but a Polo and khakis go a long way to mitigate the issue.

dd992emo Sep 6, 2009 7:40 pm


My question is do you think i'm being singled our for bad service because of my age
Yes. Next!

wolfie_cr Sep 6, 2009 8:09 pm

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/conti...ing-elite.html

sfo Sep 6, 2009 8:29 pm

I sat next to a man in FC who was dressed in a sleveless undershirt, shorts and flip flops, he was at least 65, which is my age. He looked like a pig, but I guess since he was flying FC he felt he could wear anything. Would be interested in whether he bought the ticket or was on miles, either way if he had come to my home or business dressed that way he would not have been welcome, as far as I am concerned decorum is part of travelling and that goes for those in the economy cabin as well.

nuper17 Sep 6, 2009 8:38 pm

Well, I think its not age dicrimination at all. Its how you define "casual wear".

Burj Sep 6, 2009 8:44 pm


Originally Posted by flyingfran (Post 12340640)
I am not saying this is right or fair or even moral. Certainly it would be nice if every person could be treated equitably regardless of appearance. Unfortunately, as wrong and unfair as this is, it is still a fact of life.

....

I personally wish that this were not true. I wished we each would evaluate one another based on the quality of our actions, and the logic of our thoughts, and the strength of our characters. We don't, and no amount of discussing how wrong this is will change the fact that to some degree our appearance controls how others perceive us.

Nobody is arguing that our appearance does not affect how others treat us, and vice versa...

BUT there are definitely degrees of what is unacceptable, even illegal, and bad practice.

It is ILLEGAL in the United States to discriminate against someone because of their appearance. If you think someone "appears to be a terrorist" because they look like a "middle easterner", it is still illegal to bar them from flying because of their appearance.

When this was a problem post 9/11 many people said that "middle eastern" types should just accept disriminatory behavior from airport/airline staff because of 9/11... Fortunately the LAW says otherwise...

Now of course it is not illegal for a gate or ticket agent to treat someone "like a beach bum" because they look "like a beach bum"...HOWEVER it is a BAD business practice and completely unprofessional.

As long as the OP is a paying customer, he has every right to expect to be treated as competently and as profesionally as ANY customer would.

It is not any fairer to tell the OP that if he wants to be treated well he should change how he dresses than it is to tell an African-American that if he doesn't want to be harassed by the police he should bleach his skin to look lighter or stay out of certain neighborhoods.

So to summarize my opinion/position
1) FlyingFran is completely right, our appearance affects how others perceive us, this is human nature and no amount of talking will change basic human instinct

2) While we perceive/judge others based on their appearance and our own notion of what is acceptable/unacceptable attire...it is UNPROFESSIONAL for Delta gate/ticket agents to TREAT people differently based on these perceptions/judgements

hokiekev Sep 6, 2009 8:45 pm

I addressed it in post 6...
 
My definition is cargo shorts and a t-shirt (nice t-shirt) or polo shirt and khakis... My beef has been mostly with TA. GA have been fine. I get the "this is the first class/medallion line" from the TA's. I have tried to stop this by having the medallion card out upon getting into line.


Originally Posted by pentop (Post 12340688)
OP -- we STILL haven't heard what you consider "casual attire." I agree with the others. Your dress code is likely the case.

You don't have to dress up, but a Polo and khakis go a long way to mitigate the issue.


Janus Sep 6, 2009 9:13 pm

I am in my mid-20s, a Hilton Diamond, and normally wear a t-shirt and shorts when traveling. Sometimes when checking in at a "nicer" Hilton (i.e. not HI, or HGI) the attitude of the front desk agent drastically changes when they pull up my reservation and sees me as a diamond. Personally, I find it humorous , but I agree, everyone should be treated the same.

As for air travel, never felt like I was being treated differently.

tjl Sep 6, 2009 9:23 pm


Originally Posted by hokiekev (Post 12340896)
My definition is cargo shorts and a t-shirt (nice t-shirt) or polo shirt and khakis...

Which is definitely not out of the ordinary in an airport or airplane (assuming you and your clothes are not dirty or smelly). As hard as the dress code advocates around here may argue, such dress in an airport or airplane is well within the normal range (in warmer seasons in the US, anyway).

Regarding "Dr." on cards and such, it is probably not a good idea outside of an academic environment unless you are actually a medical doctor, as that is what most people outside of an academic environment assume a "doctor" is (and in an in-flight medical emergency, they may be looking for assistance from medical doctors).

Short hair Francis Sep 6, 2009 10:27 pm


Originally Posted by Burj (Post 12340894)
So to summarize my opinion/position
1) FlyingFran is completely right, our appearance affects how others perceive us, this is human nature and no amount of talking will change basic human instinct

2) While we perceive/judge others based on their appearance and our own notion of what is acceptable/unacceptable attire...it is UNPROFESSIONAL for Delta gate/ticket agents to TREAT people differently based on these perceptions/judgements

I agree as well. I'm 20, both AA PLT and CX GLD and last night on my flight DFW-SAT sitting in F. Yes, i'm actually taking a pic of the cabin at boarding because my college buddy never believe what I fly in all the time. And the FA offered to take me a pic and ask me if I'm sitting in F? If I'm the second person to board the plane, I think it's pretty likely I'm in F since AA doesnt really preboard but whatever I just let her saw my bp and that was the end of that. But on the previous flight, the 777 run from ORD-DFW, the FA again offered to take a pic for me very nicely. So, appearence is definitely one characteristic. But I also found that the way you interact with FA especially on anything longer than a mid-con which tends to have more talking involved will generate a different response from them as well. Then again, I was dressed in a red polo shirt with jeans yesterday, something you probably wear to a bar rather than my usual wearing of yellow golf shirt with slacks.

KSinNYC Sep 6, 2009 10:41 pm


Originally Posted by hokiekev (Post 12339957)
Today's attire was a nike t-shirt of my employer athletic team, cargo shorts, and a baseball cap of the athletic teams of my employer.

Sorry, but a college logo shirt (even if it's by Nike), cargo shorts and baseball cap sound to me like "weekend" or slob attire, not really "casual." Sounds like an outfit you might wear to the gym or on a hike. IMHO, shorts and baseball caps automatically bring you down a notch... what some people on FT might describe as "ma and pa kettle" level. I agree with another poster who thought you were probably more likely the victim of attire discrimination than age discrimination. I'm not saying you should have to dress if you don't want to, but I've always gotten better service when I look nicer, no matter where it is.

soitgoes Sep 6, 2009 10:42 pm


Originally Posted by tjl (Post 12340986)
Regarding "Dr." on cards and such, it is probably not a good idea outside of an academic environment unless you are actually a medical doctor, as that is what most people outside of an academic environment assume a "doctor" is (and in an in-flight medical emergency, they may be looking for assistance from medical doctors).

Holders of PhDs are just as qualified (actually more qualified historically) to use the title Dr.


Originally Posted by Burj (Post 12340894)
It is ILLEGAL in the United States to discriminate against someone because of their appearance. If you think someone "appears to be a terrorist" because they look like a "middle easterner", it is still illegal to bar them from flying because of their appearance.

It is illegal to discriminate against members of protected classes. Racial/ethnic discrimination is prohibited. T-shirt and flip-flop wearing are not protected classes.

KSinNYC Sep 6, 2009 10:46 pm


Originally Posted by hokiekev (Post 12340062)
I think you just proved my point. I paid my fare. I don't smell (Mrs. Hokiekev would tell me if I did) and I am a loyal customer. Why should I have to play a part to get adequate service. The academic status was in response to the TA questioning it and annoying me. I don't remember DL publishing a dress code for the airline. Whether they are impressed or not they should provide good service to all of their customers.

Do you think it would be appropriate to show up in a bathing suit? Or shirtless? Without shoes? I mean, there's no published dress code.

What would you think if your students showed up dressed that way?

The point (as others have mentioned) is that there are certain expectations of how we dress and conduct ourselves in public situations and when people violate those norms they tend to get treated accordingly.


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