Thoughts on Travel Guidebooks
Apr 24, 2009, 4:10 am
#31
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Terra Australis Cognita
Posts: 5,350
As far as I know, we're the largest/best selling book in our series. The specific book I work on is in the top 5 of all guidebooks for sales. That said, you'd be amazed at the number of people it takes to keep the book chugging along each year (note, we release updated editions throughout the year too). Hotels can change ownership and policy, attractions can change nearly everything, etc.. Takes a small army. And I bring this up because many guidebooks don't have that army.
I really think that until more book series take this approach we're going to continue to have lots of outdated and vague information in the books. Publishers only want to pay for the first research team - they feel getting it on the shelf is enough. Our book has a running blog and we release updates/corrections continuously throughout the year.
Conflict of interest disclaimer: I'm one of the founders of WTP. @:-)
Apr 24, 2009, 4:37 am
#32
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Programs: Nothing - I'm useless!
Posts: 2,441
This is why I like Wikitravel -- all travellers can be part of that army. The site gets 10,000+/edits every week and lots of coverage of obscure places that "normal" guidebooks don't touch.
But who's going to be able to read your blog when they're on the road with the paper copy? Wikitravel Press books are printed on demand when you order, so they're always up to date.
Conflict of interest disclaimer: I'm one of the founders of WTP. @:-)
But who's going to be able to read your blog when they're on the road with the paper copy? Wikitravel Press books are printed on demand when you order, so they're always up to date.
Conflict of interest disclaimer: I'm one of the founders of WTP. @:-)
Apr 24, 2009, 5:01 am
#33
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: K+K
Programs: *G
Posts: 4,867
wikitravel sometimes is not that extensive - but all of the times itll have atleast the major attractions that can be found in a book and a skeletal framework of a city, allowing the reader to explore on his own. and thats what i like about it - free and easily and quickly accessible.
after a few leads, i now ignore the restaurant and lodging recommendation on wikitravel. i suspect many private businesses plug themselves there under the guise of a traveler. though that is not the primary reason, because i dont Fully agree with even single-source local/domestic recommendations (newspapers, mags, books, wiki) either. (thats why sites like tripadvisor are good)
some places like the baltics dont even have paper guide books available.
for me, i feel extremely stealthy and comfortable in a new city. the point of traveling is seeing something new, which means there should be a small element of curiosity, surprise, and mystery to it. going from airport to hotel to attraction to restaurant step-by-step seems way too pre-fab. might as well book a group bus tour and be hand-held around. also, even though i generally think many peoples sense of fright is exaggerated, standing in a corner with a camera off your neck, an LP poking out of your pocket, and a huge map in front of you, tends to draw some "undesirable" attention
after a few leads, i now ignore the restaurant and lodging recommendation on wikitravel. i suspect many private businesses plug themselves there under the guise of a traveler. though that is not the primary reason, because i dont Fully agree with even single-source local/domestic recommendations (newspapers, mags, books, wiki) either. (thats why sites like tripadvisor are good)
some places like the baltics dont even have paper guide books available.
for me, i feel extremely stealthy and comfortable in a new city. the point of traveling is seeing something new, which means there should be a small element of curiosity, surprise, and mystery to it. going from airport to hotel to attraction to restaurant step-by-step seems way too pre-fab. might as well book a group bus tour and be hand-held around. also, even though i generally think many peoples sense of fright is exaggerated, standing in a corner with a camera off your neck, an LP poking out of your pocket, and a huge map in front of you, tends to draw some "undesirable" attention
Apr 24, 2009, 5:43 am
#34
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IAH
Posts: 2,674
That's a bit harsh. I've done the "hop on a plane and figure it out on the way" from time to time. I did that with my first trip to Seoul. It's a unique experience. Generally I am quite well organised, but I really enjoyed the unplanned randomness of my trip to Seoul. I wandered around aimlessly and have tremendous memories of the trip, despite not seeing a few of the "main attractions".
As for me, I am generally a fan of LP, as also evidenced by a see of blue (with some white, green and light blue from my younger days). I will generally buy two guidebooks, LP and something else. I love the D&K guides. Not really a fan of Rough Guides.
In order to travel light, I often photocopy the parts of the guidebooks I want, and chuck them out as I go. I am contemplating buying the PDF lonely planets available online, but I do enjoy adding to my guidebook collection...
I pay no attention to the hotel parts in guidebooks anymore - relying on things like trip advisor and flyertalk. The restaurant guides are important for me in places that are tough to travel around like Iran, Africa and parts of Eastern Europe. For more mainstream places I generally wouldn't even read them.
As for me, I am generally a fan of LP, as also evidenced by a see of blue (with some white, green and light blue from my younger days). I will generally buy two guidebooks, LP and something else. I love the D&K guides. Not really a fan of Rough Guides.
In order to travel light, I often photocopy the parts of the guidebooks I want, and chuck them out as I go. I am contemplating buying the PDF lonely planets available online, but I do enjoy adding to my guidebook collection...
I pay no attention to the hotel parts in guidebooks anymore - relying on things like trip advisor and flyertalk. The restaurant guides are important for me in places that are tough to travel around like Iran, Africa and parts of Eastern Europe. For more mainstream places I generally wouldn't even read them.
No, I don't think I was being harsh at all. In fact I held back. I seriously doubt the OP was even interested in hearing about different guidebooks. Instead, it appears to me that this is travel snob innuendo. Might work on impressing your average non-traveler type, but on places like FlyerTalk, this type of post just isn't going to cut it, at least not with me. Note the lecture tone from the OP:
When people travel, they should be experiencing something more authentic by breaking free of their comfort zones and preconceived notions about whatever culture they’re visiting. Try having a discussion in broken English/Spanish/Turkish with locals. Order food you’ve never heard of before in restaurants. Get lost walking through the city streets, heading down whatever road looks most interesting. Actively seek out new things that aren’t available in your home country. Needless to say, these are not the kinds of activities often mentioned in guidebooks.
This is FT, most of us are aware of the above. However, that does not negate the use of guidebooks in any manner whatsoever. Now let's take a look at the above lecture in the context of a trip to Panama. Yes, I have been there. BTW, OP, ignore that canal thing you see there it's a tourist attraction
Try having a discussion in broken Spanish...But the OP says he and his party speak no Spanish. My hunch, they will revert to English. Lots of English speakers I am sure they encountered there.
Order food you've never heard of before in restaurants...Well of course! I mean if you don't even know a smitten of the language how are you going to know what's on the menu? Can somebody here translate for me! In fact this might be the highlight of the adventure, guessing what's on the menu. LMAO!
Get lost walking through the city streets...Okay. Go wander around the streets of Colon and get lost. Nice knowing you
Get lost...heading down whatever road looks most interesting...Uh, okay. Lets follow that road sign to the town called Yaviza and follow it as far as it goes. Please, let us know how it looks when you run out of road. Maybe take one of those skiffs across any bodies of water you encounter. Report back to us what you see, if you make it back. If not, nice knowing you, again
Also, when you go with a group, the tendency is to focus on the group and not the locals. Even more so if nobody in your group speaks the local language. Go solo, and you are more likely to focus on the locals out of necessity.
Guidebooks serve a very useful purpose. Some are better than others. Even the toughest of global adventurers use resources and planning for their expeditions, and from multiple sources.
Cheers,
M8
Apr 24, 2009, 7:04 am
#35
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: land of aahhhhs (ICT)
Programs: EXP LTPlat
Posts: 492
As far as I know, we're the largest/best selling book in our series. The specific book I work on is in the top 5 of all guidebooks for sales. That said, you'd be amazed at the number of people it takes to keep the book chugging along each year (note, we release updated editions throughout the year too)
Apr 24, 2009, 7:26 am
#36
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 196
I often buy a guidebook to where I'm traveling. I use their guidelines to suggest hotels and restaurants.
Last year we went on a trip using advice from someone on line about a place to stay. We expected a much better room than what we got. The bathroom sink was stopped up, there was no shampoo or blow dryer, and the tissue paper holder was missing. We also expected to have a decent lock on our room and furniture that was not from 1950. For the amount that we paid, we should have gotten much better! We got out of there early the next morning. The other time we stayed at another recommended spot by a number of people on-line was also disappointing.
Last year we went on a trip using advice from someone on line about a place to stay. We expected a much better room than what we got. The bathroom sink was stopped up, there was no shampoo or blow dryer, and the tissue paper holder was missing. We also expected to have a decent lock on our room and furniture that was not from 1950. For the amount that we paid, we should have gotten much better! We got out of there early the next morning. The other time we stayed at another recommended spot by a number of people on-line was also disappointing.
Apr 24, 2009, 7:54 am
#37
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MEL
Programs: QF, VA, VN, BA, SQ, KC - all reds and blues.
Posts: 3,205
I’ve never found advice from the web or from locals very reliable for hotels or restaurants. People have different tastes and amateur reviews tend to focus on whether or not a place met their tastes. Unless I know I share the same tastes, the review is pretty hopeless. For example, hotel reviews might be positive because that reviewer understands that in country X, hotels are generally not of western standard and this hotel is quite good value compared to some others – on the other hand, the same hotel might get a very poor review from someone who was used to staying in Holiday Inns – clean and bland. I find tips from local people risk either being for their friend’s establishment; the nearest establishment; or somewhere that delivers a product that the local person believes to appeal to a “western” taste. On the other hand, I find guidebooks tend to offer more factual assessments of hotels and restaurants and leave it to the reader to decide whether or not it matches what they are looking for. Online reviews tend to focus on hotels or restaurants that are at the higher end of the price spectrum, so it can be useful to get cheaper recommendations too – especially in countries where the only difference between expensive food and cheap food is whether it is eaten in a plush, air conditioned room or in a hawker market.
Someone mentioned upthread about enjoying the experience of wandering around Seoul without a gameplan. I’m glad it worked out. I had two days in Seoul as a stopover, and thanks to LP I was able to book on to the US Army tour of the DMZ which I wouldn’t otherwise have been able to do. I was able to find the museums and palaces quickly. I was able to work out how to read Korean letters. I was able to save several times the cost of the book by knowing how to get the bus from the airport rather than a taxi. I was able to cancel a booking at a hotel that looked good on the internet (but which was in the middle of nowhere) and find one right next door to the US Army base which was handy for the early start to the DMZ (and a lovely warm hotel it turned out to be). Whilst I wasn’t wedded to LP, I don’t think I strayed too far from it. It really let me find the things I wanted to do and would have liked to have done but never found if I’d just been wandering.
On the other hand, I spent a couple of days in Delhi and Agra and didn’t follow LP very closely. I spent most of my time being hassled and misdirected by local people who just wanted to part me from my money. Had I been less tired (thank you Lufthansa for the 10 hour delay) I might have been more determined to insist upon what I had picked out in LP and might have had a better time. As it is, wild horses wouldn’t drag me back to India.
Someone mentioned upthread about enjoying the experience of wandering around Seoul without a gameplan. I’m glad it worked out. I had two days in Seoul as a stopover, and thanks to LP I was able to book on to the US Army tour of the DMZ which I wouldn’t otherwise have been able to do. I was able to find the museums and palaces quickly. I was able to work out how to read Korean letters. I was able to save several times the cost of the book by knowing how to get the bus from the airport rather than a taxi. I was able to cancel a booking at a hotel that looked good on the internet (but which was in the middle of nowhere) and find one right next door to the US Army base which was handy for the early start to the DMZ (and a lovely warm hotel it turned out to be). Whilst I wasn’t wedded to LP, I don’t think I strayed too far from it. It really let me find the things I wanted to do and would have liked to have done but never found if I’d just been wandering.
On the other hand, I spent a couple of days in Delhi and Agra and didn’t follow LP very closely. I spent most of my time being hassled and misdirected by local people who just wanted to part me from my money. Had I been less tired (thank you Lufthansa for the 10 hour delay) I might have been more determined to insist upon what I had picked out in LP and might have had a better time. As it is, wild horses wouldn’t drag me back to India.
Apr 24, 2009, 8:22 am
#38
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: CLE
Programs: UA Gold, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 3,661
I use DK and Lonely Planet. I've been to 67 countries. There are FTers here who can beat that number. I go to out of the way places: I've been to Turkmenistan and Tajikistan. I like DK because it shows me pictures. I look and see where I want to go. Lonely Planet has great restaurant recommendations.
I like to wander around. I love to go into stores or shops (bazaars) where folks who live there shop. It gives me an idea of how people really live. I'm 60. I carry a giant DSRL. I am a tourist. I dress like a tourist because I want to be comfortable. I wear running shoes to walk in because they are comfortable. No matter how I dress or what I do, I am an American. I look like an American. I will never pass as a native of China, Tibet, Ghana. So, I don't try. I love to sit in cafes and watch people. I was surprised in Japan at the number of people who came up to me and wanted to talk. I like finding restaurants that have good food. And yes, I eat in McDonalds when I need a high fat fix. Favorite MickeyD's: the one on Karl Marx Strasse in Berlin. Just droll being there. It is also interesting to see who eats in MickeyDs.
My advice: be who you are. Embrace who you are. You'll be more comfortable.
This whole traveler/tourist distinction is bogus anyway. A "traveler" is nothing more than a snobby tourist who wants to look down on other travelers.
Go, learn, grow. Be happy. Be carried away by the sadness you encounter. Be carried away by the joy you encounter. Embrace the high mountains. Embrace the valleys. Embrace the people you meet: the hospitable, the inhospitable, the tourists, the snobs. Embrace yourself. (And be careful.)
I like to wander around. I love to go into stores or shops (bazaars) where folks who live there shop. It gives me an idea of how people really live. I'm 60. I carry a giant DSRL. I am a tourist. I dress like a tourist because I want to be comfortable. I wear running shoes to walk in because they are comfortable. No matter how I dress or what I do, I am an American. I look like an American. I will never pass as a native of China, Tibet, Ghana. So, I don't try. I love to sit in cafes and watch people. I was surprised in Japan at the number of people who came up to me and wanted to talk. I like finding restaurants that have good food. And yes, I eat in McDonalds when I need a high fat fix. Favorite MickeyD's: the one on Karl Marx Strasse in Berlin. Just droll being there. It is also interesting to see who eats in MickeyDs.
My advice: be who you are. Embrace who you are. You'll be more comfortable.
This whole traveler/tourist distinction is bogus anyway. A "traveler" is nothing more than a snobby tourist who wants to look down on other travelers.
Go, learn, grow. Be happy. Be carried away by the sadness you encounter. Be carried away by the joy you encounter. Embrace the high mountains. Embrace the valleys. Embrace the people you meet: the hospitable, the inhospitable, the tourists, the snobs. Embrace yourself. (And be careful.)
Last edited by manneca; Apr 24, 2009 at 8:24 am Reason: typed "drool" for "droll" Freudian slip????
Apr 24, 2009, 1:14 pm
#40
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ORF
Programs: DL Silver
Posts: 249
+1
I haven't traveled nearly as much as most of you, it seems, but when I do, I like the DK guides; as has been mentioned, I really like the neighborhood guides and maps. Also, someone else mentioned that they're good souvenirs of the trip, and i agree.
And maneca's post made me chuckle; when discussing our upcoming honeymoon to Venice with my then-fiancee, she mentioned that she always liked to try to look the part of a local when visiting Europe (she'd been a few times), had been able to pull it off pretty well (it helps that she speaks accentless French), and was going to try again on our trip. I agreed that would be fun, and asked what needed to do for the same. She laughed and said, with my clothes, body type, and haircut, I might as well have a large neon sign over my head that blinked, "American". So i carried the camera and guidebook, and didn't worry about blending in.
Of course, it was Venice...everyone's a tourist there.
I haven't traveled nearly as much as most of you, it seems, but when I do, I like the DK guides; as has been mentioned, I really like the neighborhood guides and maps. Also, someone else mentioned that they're good souvenirs of the trip, and i agree.
And maneca's post made me chuckle; when discussing our upcoming honeymoon to Venice with my then-fiancee, she mentioned that she always liked to try to look the part of a local when visiting Europe (she'd been a few times), had been able to pull it off pretty well (it helps that she speaks accentless French), and was going to try again on our trip. I agreed that would be fun, and asked what needed to do for the same. She laughed and said, with my clothes, body type, and haircut, I might as well have a large neon sign over my head that blinked, "American". So i carried the camera and guidebook, and didn't worry about blending in.
Of course, it was Venice...everyone's a tourist there.
Apr 24, 2009, 2:35 pm
#41
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: MEL
Programs: QF, VA, VN, BA, SQ, KC - all reds and blues.
Posts: 3,205
Don't do yourself down. I only rediscovered travel within the past 18 months (and have almost burned a stack of BD miles) but I milk every trip for all it's worth on the web. I'm sure some others do the same. I suspect many of us are the kind of people who would cross a border for a couple of hours just for the sake of crossing off another country. I know I am.
Apr 24, 2009, 4:51 pm
#42
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: IAH
Posts: 2,674
His Trip Report.
See the link above. Pretty good trip for a 3-day'er I am happy to report. However, he was indeed a "tourist". Aren't we all in one way or another?
See the link above. Pretty good trip for a 3-day'er I am happy to report. However, he was indeed a "tourist". Aren't we all in one way or another?
Apr 24, 2009, 8:07 pm
#44
Community Director Emerita
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Anywhere warm
Posts: 33,745
I'm a huge believer in travel guides. Why would I pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for a trip, but not pay $20 or so for a guidebook to optimize my experience while there?
I'm an inveterate traveler. I read omnivorously about travel. I subscribe to several travel magazines. I get the travel sections of newspapers such as the New York Times delivered electronically to my computer. I faithfully look at United Airline's 3 Perfect Days. I rip out articles that seem relevant to destinations I'm considering in the next 2 or 3 years. I keep inspirational travel articles in files at my desk; the rest go in my files that are organized by country and continent.
I buy guidebooks for the next 3 or 4 trips and keep them on my desk. I also have atlas's on my desk. One is for the US, one for worldwide, and one for Europe. I've got active trip files on every trip I anticipate taking in the next 12 months in hanging pendaflex files in my desk drawer. By the time I leave on the trip, I know what resource material I want to bring. I rip out sections of the guidebooks that I want to take with me.
On the rare occasion I fail to find a guidebook for a country we'll be in just 2 or 3 days as part of a longer trip, I generally regret not having done so. It's a shame to arrive in a new country and think that somehow magically mystically it will unfold itself in front of me, and it will be obvious what to see.
I'm an inveterate traveler. I read omnivorously about travel. I subscribe to several travel magazines. I get the travel sections of newspapers such as the New York Times delivered electronically to my computer. I faithfully look at United Airline's 3 Perfect Days. I rip out articles that seem relevant to destinations I'm considering in the next 2 or 3 years. I keep inspirational travel articles in files at my desk; the rest go in my files that are organized by country and continent.
I buy guidebooks for the next 3 or 4 trips and keep them on my desk. I also have atlas's on my desk. One is for the US, one for worldwide, and one for Europe. I've got active trip files on every trip I anticipate taking in the next 12 months in hanging pendaflex files in my desk drawer. By the time I leave on the trip, I know what resource material I want to bring. I rip out sections of the guidebooks that I want to take with me.
On the rare occasion I fail to find a guidebook for a country we'll be in just 2 or 3 days as part of a longer trip, I generally regret not having done so. It's a shame to arrive in a new country and think that somehow magically mystically it will unfold itself in front of me, and it will be obvious what to see.
Apr 24, 2009, 8:41 pm
#45
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Central California
Programs: Former UA Premex, now dirt
Posts: 6,531
...
I'm an inveterate traveler. I read omnivorously about travel. I subscribe to several travel magazines. I get the travel sections of newspapers such as the New York Times delivered electronically to my computer. I faithfully look at United Airline's 3 Perfect Days. I rip out articles that seem relevant to destinations I'm considering in the next 2 or 3 years. I keep inspirational travel articles in files at my desk; the rest go in my files that are organized by country and continent.
I buy guidebooks for the next 3 or 4 trips and keep them on my desk. I also have atlas's on my desk. One is for the US, one for worldwide, and one for Europe. I've got active trip files on every trip I anticipate taking in the next 12 months in hanging pendaflex files in my desk drawer. By the time I leave on the trip, I know what resource material I want to bring. I rip out sections of the guidebooks that I want to take with me ...
I'm an inveterate traveler. I read omnivorously about travel. I subscribe to several travel magazines. I get the travel sections of newspapers such as the New York Times delivered electronically to my computer. I faithfully look at United Airline's 3 Perfect Days. I rip out articles that seem relevant to destinations I'm considering in the next 2 or 3 years. I keep inspirational travel articles in files at my desk; the rest go in my files that are organized by country and continent.
I buy guidebooks for the next 3 or 4 trips and keep them on my desk. I also have atlas's on my desk. One is for the US, one for worldwide, and one for Europe. I've got active trip files on every trip I anticipate taking in the next 12 months in hanging pendaflex files in my desk drawer. By the time I leave on the trip, I know what resource material I want to bring. I rip out sections of the guidebooks that I want to take with me ...
You go, girl!