My response would be a polite but firm:
"No I won't move my laptop, as I DID check my bag and AM already suffering that fate that you are trying to escape, specifically so that I could preserve my foot well and take up LESS overhead space than I am currently using."

I do agree with you on your other points (length wise bags are excessive, etc.)

My opinion is that the boarding delay's are not caused by laptops in the overhead, they are caused be folks insisting they bring and store in the overhead their laptop, purse/backpack, AND big overhead bag.

I think Justin makes the best point in this thread in his full post. The whole problem here is that People under the Macoz view are trying to "preserve" their foot well. That foot well, is your primary storage and in order for the system to be fair to everyone, you must use it as such.

Checking your bag does leave more bin space for other bags, but it does not entitle you to not have to use your foot well and get to put something else in a bin in its place. Putting an item in the bin and not using your foot well, is just like bring your rollerbag on board. And while a laptop case may be smaller, it still reduced the bin from 5 bags down to 3-4 bags because of the height and width issue. So the argument of checking and putting other things in the foot well is a null argument as it does not make any difference in the available bin space.

Put it under the seat, and if there is room later, you can put it in the overhead bin.

Wow, in most cases my laptop bag fits in an area where no other bags would fit...it's about the size of a notebook binder...it's not one of the ugly targus square block carriers. Even so, I guess the guy with roller bag eyes that note book size slot with envy and is sure if only I would move my laptop he could cram his roller board in that space.

There is an easy solution...I put my notebook under my seat and bring my roller bag, which is 6x the size and put it in the overhead.

I guess perhaps the best way to do this would be to pack my laptop in my roller bag and skip the hassle of waiting at the belt...oops, I need to get a bigger roller bag. Then I get to keep my foot space and everyone is happy.

It just seems odd to hear folks getting happy about having less space?

This thread is like the energizer bunny..

Just doesn't make any sense why people would put something, seemingly expensive, where it can be spilled, puked or crapped on.

Isn't it funny? Here is a bunch of seasoned travelers and with all their "seasoning" they still have the same tolerance/entitlement concerns as everybody else and most of them can't even rationalize the problem. Loren's tag proposition was very good, though.

If we do try to rationalize it, I think here is how it looks.

Traveling without luggage is basically not possible, it might almost be an oxymoron. So we have to find ways to transport our luggage efficiently and safely. These should be the two main concerns.

Airlines, out of greed or economic necessity, have decided to charge for checked bags. This does not only break with a good habit, namely checking your bags, but also incites people out of greed or economic necessity not to check their bags. This compounds the problem and not only shifts it.

The second point is convenience. If airlines found a way to transport luggage quicker and safer (no stolen or lost or pilfered or damaged bags), it would be entirely possible to enforce rather strict carry-on regulations as those in Heathrow by BA. For the super hurried business person on a short business trip even the smaller size will usually be sufficient. If not, well, you either have to pack more efficiently or check your bags. If that means you have to take an earlier flight, so be it. It's not like it couldn't be accommodated for the sake of doing business. I here the comments come:"Yes, but I (me myself and I) have this and that situation." I hope you hear the entitlement bell ring.

I would gladly be willing to pay 20-50$ per ticket more if it could be guaranteed that I get my luggage within 15 minutes after reaching the conveyor belt. Say the first bag must be on 15 minutes after the plane is at the gate. In addition there should be a higher insurance on lost and damaged belongings. The contents of many travelers bags are worth often upwards of $5000. A simple rule could be put in place. They lose your bag, they pay you $250 right away so you can get the most necessary things for the next 24 hours. If they don't get your bag to you within that time they pay you $5000 no matter how much your bag is worth. Flat fee.

I am dreaming, of course, airlines won't provide us with a better baggage handling situation so we must deal with the on board luggage.

Now, to do that, again, safely and efficiently would mean several things.

1. The most efficient use of bins is indeed to fit the maximum number of maximum carry-on size bags in there. Thus 45 linear inch items should have priority over personal items and hard cases (stiff frame) over soft cases (pliable duffle and the like).

2. Usually coats can go (and should go) on top of that. Having your coat on the dirty floor is indeed unacceptable.

3. Personal items such as purses and briefcases should be treated as such. This means they are close to you i.e. under your seat, the seat in front of you or by your feet or between your feet (this works quite well).

4. If all bigger items and coats are stowed overhead and there is still some room, personal items can go up there. Priority should be given first to those who do not have any other luggage than this one item (not checked or otherwise). Than to people who do have other pieces of luggage but who checked them. Third priority would be people who have no checked pieces but a rollaboard. Fourth priority would be people who have checked pieces, plus a rollaboard.

You see this is in an order that rewards those who bring less but is still fair overall as everyone's main items will be stowed and you only risk having a personal item by your feet.

I know it is touchy to touch other travelers' stuff particularly in the US where people are overly sensitive and have an even worse sense of entitlement than in Europe. But I have several times played a little overhead bin tetris just announcing briefly something like: Alright, I'm gonna re-arrange this a little bit so everybody's bags fit. I have not yet had a negative reaction to that. Besides, when we are boarding I usually ask the less seasoned or weaker/shorter passengers if I may be of assistance stowing their luggage. Usually this takes care of it.

I only stow my personal messenger bag in the bin if I see there is clearly enough room. I then take out a quart size pouch with Ipod and shades etc to put in the seat pocket. But in general I actually feel better knowing the personal and thus important bag is right with me.

I have resisted this over the years, but I reckon it's time for me to start bringing the roller board with me on the plane.

I will up-size it a bit (still keeping it under the max dimensions) to accommodate my laptop. I vaguely recall seeing a few bags that had front mounted independent access compartments large enough to swallow my laptop bag (yet still providing easy access to the bag en route).

I guess I have been resistant for two reasons:

- I don't like playing the "find a slot for my steamer trunk roulette". There will be 1 out of 8 or 10 turns that I lose and have to put the bag upstream or gate check it...this will happen eventually just from connection delay's putting me at the end of the boarding queue.

- I worry a bit over the gate check on CRJ's for my mini-fridge...invariably I will be on a delayed flight and needing to run to the next gate, yet drumming my fingers in the jetway awaiting my luggage.

However, the upside is that I will no longer be one of those anonymous donors that is giving away free space overhead by checking my bag. AND I will not be challenged to put my laptop in my foot well. The trade off is good...just seems so silly and in the end it hurts those that insist on it more than it hurts me. I will be most assuredly be taking more space with my new bag than with my laptop.

I don't put any stock in what other pax might think of my current approach, but I don't want to be subject to an FA demanding I move my laptop when in the end, I can just put my steamer trunk (with my embedded laptop) up top and the FA is quite happy??!!??

I don't understand the "communal win" logic of the rules in my particular circumstance, but in the end I don't really need to understand the logic of the rule...just the letter of the rule.

My next flight is on 20Jan, so I'll head out this weekend to go buy a piece of nice big luggage to make me bonafide for top space.

If there are any experienced pack mules out there have recommendations based upon my stated need, please send them along.

Macoz, check out the Travelpro Platinum % review I posted in the luggage etc section. There is also a Tumi rolling carry-on that fits your description exactly.

No system is perfect and there will always be those savvy enough to play the system. If the system is close to perfect than that just has to be tolerated and those smart enough get a reward for being smarter but maybe not for being fair.

I'm not going to insist on 15 minutes. That's more of a quality guarantee than I feel the need for.

There is also the issue of things too delicate for the checking and medicine that's not practical to replace. For a longer trip that basically uses up the carry-on allotment for me.

I do think the baggage liability limits should be substantially upgraded. I'm not sure how theft reimbursement should be handled but I would like to see some deterrence: Allow frequent travelers to obtain decoy items from some government source. The decoys are tagged with passive RFID tags. A computer keeps track of tags passing through the area, especially any that leave by inappropriate routes. (Note for non-technical types: Passive RFID tags are completely incapable of transmitting if not energized by a scanner and thus are not an issue on the airplane.)

The only problem I see with coats is fools who think they can take up bin space with them and not expect them to get crunched. There's always space on top of the bags but it's going to crunch them. A bin that's not full is going to suffer shifting and crunch them anyway.

I've never bothered to announce but only once have I ever taken anything out in making space--and that did provoke a squawk from the guy. He had a *WAY* oversize item up there but it was a painting--very flat. I was putting my and my wife's bags up there and felt his painting should be on top of them rather than under them.



It occurs to me that there is one more thing the airline could do: A piece of thin plastic under the seats that would keep any liquids from going into the underseat area. I'm picturing a thin shell that starts behind the seat cushion, goes under it and then down to the floor. I've never investigated where the life vest is stored to know what would be needed to accommodate it.

I work in YYJ as a ramper for QX and WS and it is a requirement for both airlines here that the first bag is to be on the belt 15 minutes after doors opened. For QX in December, we hit that 97% of the time. Granted, we are a much smaller airport ;).

That is fantastic. Congrats! Proves that my expectations aren't even unrealistic. ATX usually gets that time, too. OTOH, I once waited for more than 35 minutes at a tiny provincial airport in Germany. And we are supposed to be efficient. ROTFL!

Loren, I love the water barrier idea. And the decoy idea is even better. Wouldn't you like to get an authentic government issued Rolex or pearl necklace for your personal use? Nice!

Fragile things? There is hardly anything that wouldn't survive a checked trip in a Pelican case. There are some things that might be too big for a P case but those would also be too big for carry on.

Medicine? Not sure if there is medicine that takes up so much space that it doesn't fit in a max size carry-on bag or even a personal bag. If you really have to bring 1000 ampules you just need to pack less cloths.

Remember, I am not saying no carry-ons should be allowed. I am just prioritizing how the space is used. I think the combination of your tag solution with my priority ranking would give a decent (if not perfect) result that a majority of passengers could actually agree on; or at least better as the 50-50 mentality that seems to prevail so far.

As you say, coats may get crumpled one way or another but the best position is still on top of the bags in the bin. If you read my Platinum 5 review, you will see that I bought that case also because it has a very convenient place for my coat.

As an art historian and collector I can understand the pax wasn't too happy someone touched his artwork. It's like babies to us. Oftentimes we spend all our money on the work itself and then don't have any left for professional packaging (which is ridiculously expensive by the way). It might be better and very much appreciated if instead you were extremely civil and said: Looks like a fragile artwork. It will be best to put that on top of our bags. Would you like to handle it or shall I do it?

I'd be overjoyed to get such a considerate co-passenger.

I've got something that you couldn't hope to pack 1000 ampules into a rollaboard.

96 ampules come in a 5" x 6" x 6" box.

1000 ampules would be 4 months worth, though.

Are the statistics for the 15 minute rule viewable at any other airport?