Been there, done that. See the quote above from Thomas Aquinas.

M8

WFH is not for everybody

Since I am one of those few that does what needs to be done......I would much rather enjoy the peace of my home office instead of being distracted by everyone at the office and been dragged into political power trips/ ridiculous and useless meetings etc etc

Quad Erat Demonstratum ~ Wolfie_CR

Ah, but you see if one is not involved in the politics and prevailing in those politics, then one can not "succeed" ;)

True Liberty, whether physically located at the company, away from the company, or the best yet ==> being self-employed, comes when you know you have indispensable skills where you command your own worth and where it is not determined by whim of those who know less and who seek to dominate because of their inadequacy.

M8

I work out of my home and far prefer it. Totally out of choice. I do find that it's really important for me to get out with people, so I eat a ton of meals out -- some business, plenty just to get out. I think it's a very personal thing. I've always liked working on my own, so it suits me.

I think some of you hit on the big drawbacks of working at home. There are some steps that people really need to follow to make it work.

- Setting boundaries. Make it clear that when you're working in your home office you're considered working and disturbances should be limited.

- Setting boundaries. Your home is your home and just because you live in it doesn't mean you should work 24/7. I had a very wise manager who said he has a 69 rule. He doesn't take calls or check email from 6 to 9 at night...ever. His motivation is to stay married.

- Office setup. You need to have a really good functional office space. You don't need a $6000 desk, but something that gives you all of the space you need. Also, you need things setup ergonomically and have good peripherals for your PC.

In the end, your company still needs face to face meetings. Even if you're remote, this pretty much has to happen. If its not, then they really don't know what they're doing.
- Get out as much as you need. If you are someone who needs more contact than you get at home go out for lunch. Network with people and meet others for lunch. Exercise at lunch.

haven't got the time to notice with continous raises/promotions and lack of ulcers :D :p

Me, too. The 25% bump in base pay I've gotten along with entire days of not hearing from co-workers makes me very happy, indeed.

So are you two posting on FT during work hours? :D

I am a salaried employee. My work hours are when I decide to work, which today began at about 6:15AM. I'm about to have breakfast and spend 30 minutes on the elliptical machine followed by a shower. Then back to work for a few more hours until lunch. I'll likely post a bit on FT during this time, too.

You seem to be missing the fact that the 9-5 concept simply doesn't exist for many of us. OR you're not and just being silly.

This is the typical justification for those who are slacking off during their work at home hours. The rationalizations are incredible.

You should hear my opinions about programs like 9/80. Anybody up for that too? :D

You make no sense. My company is very clear that there ARE no hours where I'm chained to the desk. The flip side is that I don't get to claim "it's out of work hours" when I have to travel or host an early morning or late call. I've had 1AM calls with Malaysia in the past, just part of the gig.

I don't need to justify anything, just try in my own little way to change the "work hour" mentality to a "work accomplishment" mentality.

I don't care if my staff only works 2 hours a day as long as they get their work done. It's my job as a manager to set expectations and if I set them too low, well, it falls back on me and a discussion I'll be having with my boss at some point.

Yeah, yeah. I've heard all this before. It all comes crashing down eventually. BTW, there are whole companies that have bought into this slacker concept. The market eventually reforms them, or takes them out of business, or exports their work to places where people actually work.

Just remember, you are not self-sovereign until you take control of your own destiny.

Cheers,

M8

Exactly. I got up around 6:00am this morning and the first thing I did was check and respond to some work e-mail, then breakfast, then OMNI ;).

I'm paid to do a job with an International company, not reserve specific hours for my employer.

There's an echo in here :p

I woke up at 5:00a this morning, and I am still in my underwear. So there! :p

Slacker? Don't get it. So employees are supposed to work a fixed schedule AND handle everything out of hours, too? Are you saying the company owns you 24-7 unless you work for yourself or some other bigger statement you're trying to make that I'm missing?

Off to the elliptical. Got stuck answering emails up until 9:30AM.

Have a good work out. I'm off to lift weights shortly. My cardio was yesterday, but I skipped so I could go ride my motorcycle.

I'm saying the company owns you until you quit your job, or they fire you, but no, not 24/7. As an employee, you are essentially commanded by them, no matter how things are dressed up to look nice. And no matter how dressy, you have surrendered a large chunk of your self-sovereignty to them, like it or not.

WAH programs are indeed valid for some aspects of work, such as regional sales, some computer programming, etc. However, for the most part WAH programs were initiated for whiners and snivelers (W&S) who couldn't deal with the fact that they had surrendered their sovereignty to their employers. The argument made by the W&S crowd was that they would be more productive at home, when in fact at home what they really wanted to do was surf the net, watch re-runs of Magnum PI, hang out at Starbuck's, and be themselves with minimum accountability to those who pay them, etc. This gives W&S crowd the feeling that they have become self-sovereign, and also allows them to think they are productive simply because they can talk over the phone and type at a keyboard. In reality, this self-proclaimed productivity is simply delusional and concoted in order to justify the sham of WAH, i.e, "I was really productive today because I took a call from China at 2:00 in the morning" or "Today I wrote a memo and talked on the phone, I was really productive and proclaim myself to be a modern man of influence via the calls I make and the memos I write". If one is more productive at home than at the office, then one was slacking off at the office and should have been sacked.

Cheers,

M8

5 AM hardly a work hour for me , of course since I don't really have 'work hours' its a moot point :D

are you sure this is WAH ? People that work at home normally deal with real objectives, not writing memos....or having useless meetings....or going out for lunch 'to talk business' (while achieving nothing and handing over bills for reimbursement) :p

of course there are many jobs that are not suitable for WAH (or WFH whatever) such as onsite engineering etc......and then we get to hear their whinning....right here at FT :p

I am sure you mean where 'people actually deliver QUALITY work', in what I do it doesn't matter if I 'worked' ten hours or just one. The quality and preciseness is what matters.

One of my engineering professors used to say "engineers are the laziests.......and I am one of them........in order for me to be lazy.....I will make sure that whatever I do.....I get it right the first time"

There you go, some might call me a slacker......but its not my fault that it takes them 5x the time to do anything and yet.......it breaks every other day. while my delivered product is solid. :cool:

If people are getting bent up over one persons remarks, maybe something else is the problem??

I don't agree with M8 at all, that is older generational thinking whereas "time" is what ultimately makes you a good employee, productivity and work ethic be damned.

That's not the case with all employers any more and it's a good thing when time is taken out of the equation, but like M8 unconscionably points out, as long as these older thinkers are still running things, it won't happen everywhere over night.

I am damn productive when I set my own hours, instead of watching the clock, I just get to work, if it's 4:15 and I am done for the day, I am done. I don't have to sit there and look busy for 45 minutes just to satisfy the timers.

I think my ability to achieve the highest possible bump in salary and the fact that I am still employed are good indicators that I am doing something right.

I am sure people do better in an environment where their working is seen, but as long as you can produce above and beyond what you are expected to produce, no one should be complaining.

And yes it's 4:01 and I am done for the day!

Well paisano, all I can say is felicidades! Are you engineering and building new race cars in your living room? How do you get them out once they are finished? :p

Could be a guilty subconscience fighting back the sting of reality with justifications.
Actually I think productivity and work ethic are the old thinking. Free time to fool around at home while supposedly on the job is the new thinking. The proper approach is to be productive for the full time that you are employed, and to do so on a daily basis.

There is a lot of "I" in the rest of your statement. In fact most of the responses above that defend WAH are very self-congratulatory. This should tell the discerning audience something about those who WAH and actually validates my factual observations about most WAH programs and WAH workers.

M8

P.S. At home today, I did some e-mail, and wrote some minutes to a meeting I attended last week. My ideas were heard and will be implemented. I am so productive and so influential because fo this. And I got to do this while watching Days of Our Lives. I also took a nap to make up for any anticipated phone calls that might come in the middle of the night from Malaysia :p

Not really sure you keep posting mundane things like this. Who does this? Do you get calls from Malaysia at 2am or something? Do people email you and tell you they are watching Days of Our Lives? I don't get what this has to do with anything.

It has to do with WAH. Capsice? I am of the opinion that WAH is an elaborate scam. Why do I think this? Because every WAH person I know has confessed this to me in private, while publicly they proclaim they are the model of productivity.

As for the calls in the middle of the night, just look at the testimony in the thread offered by others.

M8

Oh I see.. I am sure the couple/few/lot (??) of people you have run across is a good sample of the 40 million American's that telecommute.

It's alright, no ones changing anyone's minds here, I know what I do, my boss knows what I do, that's all that matters to me!

Clearly you hang out with the wrong people, then.

WAH is only going to expand in scale going forward as companies realize it costs less to maintain fewer office buildings and as managers start being hired and groomed from the ranks of those who WAH and wouldn't want it any other way.

I don't think it's 40 million. The economy couldn't tolerate that many slackers.

I do hang out with the wrong crowd. They are all WAH types! :D

Many suffer from delusions about their rise to the top :p

So now you have seen another perspective. And right here on FT @:-)

M8

P.S. Richard last time I heard from you I thought you were going into business for yourself. Am I recalling someone else?

Likely. I like the home/work balance I have right now. Maybe when the kid gets a bit older.

Thread closed pending Moderator Review.
Obscure2k
TravelBuzz Moderator