Yes, but...
 

You are correct, sort of. If you notice, most airlines "secure/prepare the cabin" for landing at 10K feet. This is because we can't honestly depend on people to make sure they follow all of these rules themselves, we do need to go through and ensure compliance, the FAA makes us.

Same applies for takeoff. The cabin should be secure from door closure, until 10K feet as well, just like descent. Once you push back from the jetway you loose your main means of egress and the flow rate of pax off of an aircraft is MUCH greater through a jetway than at a door with a slide (especially when you factor in hesitation to jump). This is why we have you stow everything and leave it stowed until after takeoff, this is why we want things turned off (no distractions), this is why we want seatbelts fastened, this is why we don't want anything but reading material in the seatback pocket...why you should probably leave your shoes on for takeoff, why the windows shades at the Exit Row should be open. The cabin needs to be as prepared as possible (as clean and devoid of obstructions/distractions) as possible! Once we leave the ground who's to say we wouldn't have an engine failure right at rotation?...or something else happen after takeoff? If you've put your seat back, pulled out your bags etc then the cabin isn't as ready as it could be...thus it's important to wait until 10K feet when you can rest assured that all is well!

This may all sounds like a bit much but this is how your crew is trained to think. Sometimes it seems like we don't make sense but there's a reason for what we ask! I hope I provided SOME insight into things and if not then I tried.

Thanks, CABNcrew for your thoughtful and enlightening post.^

Reminds me of the time my family was flying to my niece's wedding in DC. We went through Raleigh/Durham. This was in early 2002, and security approaching DC was pretty tight. The FA announced that for the final 30 minutes, no one was allowed out of their seat. As we approached DC, the FA made another announcement that from that point on, if anyone got out of their seat the flight would not land at National, but would divert to Dulles.

As the last words were leaving her lips, a well dressed man stands up, opens the overhead compartment, retrieves something and sits down again.

The look of dismay on her face was priceless! More than one person near me was shaking their head.

We landed at National.

Aaaah, my bad. :D I read "PVG instead of PVD" (I was WAY off).

How dare you question any parent or child's god-given right to travel by air and behave as loudly and obnoxiously as they damn well please! What nerve you have to suggest that families with children should actually attempt to have manners and show any consideration for the passengers around them! You obviously hate children!

In days of yore, some airlines used to include "Seatbacks should remain upright until the seatbelt light has been turned off" (or words to that effect) in the preflight announcements.

Personally, I dislike having the seatback ahead of me right in my face during a steep climb or descent.

This is an interesting thread, and some stuff I've seen fellow pax do drives me nuts. I turn off my Ipod when they tell me, yet the guy sitting next to me insists on hiding his and keeping it on all the way to ground. I know it's not going to cause us to crash, but for some reason it annoys me when people think they don't need to follow the rules everyone has to. Someday I'm going to strangle this person with his own earbuds and see how he likes it. My face will be red with rage, and I'll be saying through clenched teeth, "We're below 10,000 feet you idiot!!!" :D

But on the flipside, this thread raises another concern I have. The fact that sometimes I feel like we're being turned in to a society of squealers, or at least encouraged to do it. This is no more apparent than every time I'm in an airport. Just listening to the PA announcements makes me feel like I'm stuck in some sort of Orwell/Bradbury nightmare, "If you see anyone acting suspicious, please inform a TSA representative." Sometimes I wonder if the next thing we'll hear is, "If you hear or see anyone speaking badly about the TSA, please notify the TSA." ;) Perhaps it's the reason I haven't strangled Ipod guy yet on a flight. I'm hypersensitive to feeling like I'm becoming part of the problem as opposed to part of the solution.

As a kid, I remember sitting still and listening to "mommy" even though she did not wack my face or threaten me.

Now-a-days, I still see normal, well behaved kids. I also see monsters with mental problems. Is the world changing or did I just not associate with bad kids.

"I'd say you say something to the airline, it's the crew's job (not yours) to deal with them if they're ignoring the rules and possibly endangering people."

Yes, and then the people complain to the airline with a complaint taken out of context (similar sometimes to what can happen here) and they get reprimanded.

Raise any concern you want to the airplane staff. It gives them the onus to approach the passengers. This is especially true up front where so many people their the sun shines out of their backside and the rules don't apply to them. Complain and they'll be able to do something.

"Just listening to the PA announcements makes me feel like I'm stuck in some sort of Orwell/Bradbury nightmare, "If you see anyone acting suspicious, please inform a TSA representative.""

No, you just needed to spend some time in the UK when there were worries about IRA attacks. Everyone was looking around for anyone leaving a bag on anything. It's not orwellian. It's just a precaution. It's not like you're peering in through anyone's window and when's the last time anyone you know ever felt the need to report someone at the airport.

If people are doing things unsafe in the air and reducing your level of personal safety then call them on it. It's a much easier situation to handle if other passengers are complaining.

There needs to be some kind of booklet that a parent needs to read and sign (perhaps even take a quiz) before they can travel with kids. And yes, I'm a parent. I read up on traveling with children (on the Traveling with Kids forum; books; magazines; other online) so that I wouldn't turn into one of those people I hate sitting by, near or in front of. Heck, while we're at it; perhaps there should be a quiz/required reading before anyone flies. Nothing drives me more crazy than a parent who will not give their baby/young child something to suck on at take off and landing to soothe the child's ears. It's a simple thing yet so many parents don't do it. It pains me for the child much more than my own comfort (or lack thereof).

Seriously, folks; that 10 minutes at take off and landing - can you really not live without reading your blackberry, listening to ipod, etc? The rules are rules - whether you agree or not doesn't matter; and it's ridiculous that FAs have to come around to frequent flyers and tell them to get off their phone; ipod; computer; put their seat up etc. when we all know better.

I can understand a 3 year old getting fidgety. That's a 3 year old - they have no concept of anything more. I even understand the screaming kid because, as pointed out, the parent never thought that a 3 year old has no idea how to pop their ears. It's the adults who really get to me. The ones who just throw everything around, who see no problem letting their kid run around while they sprawl out, who don't even bat an eye lid while their kid tears up the safety card. The ones who for some reason think it is some kind of game to see what they can get away with.

i wonder if it would be a lot more useful for an airline to explain WHY they should keep their seat back upright, or keep the aisle clear. Maybe that will get them to at least think a minute.

I second that motion!
 

I didn't say it, but THAT'S WHAT I'M SCREAMIN! The rules of travel should NOT be a surprise to some people.

CABNcrew, I'm not looking to argue, particularly with a professional, but I'd respectfully point out that some of what you're saying here doesn't apply to all airlines. On UA 10k on descent is the double-ding signaling that personal electronics should be turned off. I haven't had a UA flight yet in which "return seat backs to the upright and locked position, etc." was given at 10k. I'm not disputing your rationale. I'm simply pointing out that at least one major legacy carrier doesn't do this.

And, again, I can only say that UA is different. I've specifically asked this question, i.e. when can I put my seat back?, to a number of FAs, lead FAs and pursers and the answer has always been the same: "Gee, no one ever asked us that. You can recline after wheels up." Which is what I do. If some busybody [edited by moderator] starts kicking my seat because he thinks I shouldn't recline, he's going to be introduced to some men and women in blue who will give him some nice silver bracelets when we land.

I truly appreciate your explanation, and that is precisely why I made a point of asking a number of crew members on my regular carrier. For what it's worth, I don't take things out until we're at cruise and, even then, I rarely will leave them on the floor in front of me or on an empty seat next to me (yeah, like that happens any more) because of the possibility of unexpected turbulence. However, as for headphones, I always use non-powered headphones for takeoff and landing so that I can listen to Channel 9 on UA. No cabin crew on UA has ever objected and, of course, if the captain didn't want us listening to Channel 9 during takeoff and landing, he or she would simply turn it off.

With all that said, if I was flying on YOUR airline, I'd leave my seat up and not listen to my headphones, because I always follow the flight crew's instructions. :)

Question: Will a simple 911 call do the trick or ???

PTravel:

Thanks for sharing your experiences~ I have no doubt other airlines have different ways of accomplishing the same goals. While UA may not have a "secure cabin" PA at 10K, they still secure the cabin. They still must make sure all service-items have been collected, all bags are stowed, all devices are off, all seatbelts fastened etc.

As for when to recline your seat. This is not the policy at my carrier either, it was just a little insight into the "why" of it all. I'm probably a little better equipped to answer some cabin safety issues as well because I have attended not only 2 airline trainings but also the FAA's cabin safety institute training which teaches you think "thinking" behind the action.

While technically (in terms of FAR's) it's most certainly acceptable to recline your seat after "wheels up", refer to my reasoning above for the recommendations in terms of safety. As a pax myself I wouldn't get too comfortable until 10K...that's when I most definitely know all is well!

I wish there was a way to share the thinking we (most cabin crew) have learned with pax, but it's a thin line we walk because we never want to scare anyone. I just had a pax recently ask about what it means to "crosscheck" doors for departure. Once I told him he said "Wow, I'll bet there's a lot I don't know...just never thought to ask." A little later (it was a long flight) he came to the back armed with more questions and I was delighted to share with him the "how and why" of it all..and he was just as eager to hear it! So many thing he'd though silly really made sense to him!

Policy, procedure and regulations generally come from history and experience. They're not always as arbitrary as they seem!