What was it like before airline de-regulation?
#16
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: UA Silver
Posts: 794
Deregulation was just a couple years before my time but I still remember smoking on planes. I don't remember thinking anything of it at the time, but the thought of that is amazing to me now. Who thought it would be a good idea to smoke in a tiny enclosed tube?!
#17
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 28
go back to re-regulation and we can kiss the frequent flyer programs goodbye...higher fares will be set by a new c.a.b. on every city pair. good bye to the low cost/fare carriers as every airline will be on the same level and service will be the new benchmark.....full dinners could/should be expected between chicago and st louis as it was back in the day
#18
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,452
China
The airlines of China are regulated now. Restrictions on purchases of new planes (how many allowed, from whom). Restrictions on pilots changing an airline they work for.
China has low-cost carries nevertheless. And other things are being tried. Like Juneyao, who offers business travel around Shanghai.
So... what would the content of airline reregulation be? And what should it be?
China has low-cost carries nevertheless. And other things are being tried. Like Juneyao, who offers business travel around Shanghai.
So... what would the content of airline reregulation be? And what should it be?
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
My experience of deregulation commenced when I was about 13...and I was seriously relieved at being able to choose an airline other than OA to fly to my grandparents in Athens!
It was fun to fly the F50 of Branson's SEEA on handwritten tickets (in 1992!) and get a croissant and some coke for the short domestic hop (OA only serving a choice of water or vile grapefruit juice).
#22
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 499
Well, I would certainly not be an old curmugeon talking about how good it was, but deregulation happened in 1978 which was 33 years after my first commercial flying experience and we've had 30 years since then . . .
Seriously, the problem from the beginning, going back to the Civil Aeronautics ACT of 1938, was how to provide reliable air service in a manner that was economically feasible for the airlines to provide while meeting the "public convenience and necessity" of supplying reliable air service throughout the nation. The system was based on a process of granting air routes and setting fares according to the requests of the carriers, the requests and interests of the communities to be served, and within the judgement of the Civil Aeronautics Board that heard and adjudicated requests in route cases that could run on for years. Typically the result was service granted to two or three carriers in each point-to-point or route line market with fares set, as with utility regulation, to guarantee that carriers would not undercut each other to the point of bankruptcy while still providing reasonable fares to the public. One result is that competetive advantage could only be gained in the areas of service, ameneties, and image. Another result is that union structures and lack of cost competition tended to result in high pay scales and desireable working conditions for professional employees such as pilots, mechanics, and FA's (then stewardesses), not to ignore other functions in the company.
I don't think some of the short skirt, glamour-girl, "resort" atmosphere aspects of flying in the 60's were so much an artifact of regulation as of the times. Certainly airline travel in the 40's and 50's did not have that atmosphere. It is also true that there is a huge difference today in terms of population growth, speed of communications, globalization of business, and the cost effectiveness of the modern jet liner which hugely affect the travel atmosphere today, deregulation aside.
OK, the curmudgeon part is that, yes fares were high then, and yes travel today can be hell, or not, lots of times. Personally I think the opportunity we have to move around the world with ease, and at a low price is fantastic. Maybe the system just needs a little adjusting for comfort, if some way can be found to do so.
Seriously, the problem from the beginning, going back to the Civil Aeronautics ACT of 1938, was how to provide reliable air service in a manner that was economically feasible for the airlines to provide while meeting the "public convenience and necessity" of supplying reliable air service throughout the nation. The system was based on a process of granting air routes and setting fares according to the requests of the carriers, the requests and interests of the communities to be served, and within the judgement of the Civil Aeronautics Board that heard and adjudicated requests in route cases that could run on for years. Typically the result was service granted to two or three carriers in each point-to-point or route line market with fares set, as with utility regulation, to guarantee that carriers would not undercut each other to the point of bankruptcy while still providing reasonable fares to the public. One result is that competetive advantage could only be gained in the areas of service, ameneties, and image. Another result is that union structures and lack of cost competition tended to result in high pay scales and desireable working conditions for professional employees such as pilots, mechanics, and FA's (then stewardesses), not to ignore other functions in the company.
I don't think some of the short skirt, glamour-girl, "resort" atmosphere aspects of flying in the 60's were so much an artifact of regulation as of the times. Certainly airline travel in the 40's and 50's did not have that atmosphere. It is also true that there is a huge difference today in terms of population growth, speed of communications, globalization of business, and the cost effectiveness of the modern jet liner which hugely affect the travel atmosphere today, deregulation aside.
OK, the curmudgeon part is that, yes fares were high then, and yes travel today can be hell, or not, lots of times. Personally I think the opportunity we have to move around the world with ease, and at a low price is fantastic. Maybe the system just needs a little adjusting for comfort, if some way can be found to do so.
#23
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Phila Delta ex-PM, ex-UA-PE
Posts: 2,659
How is that different from today?? Flying is still very much a preserve of the wealthy. Sure, more people can afford it now than in the past...But that doesn't mean there aren't billions of people worldwide who can only dream of being able to afford a plane ticket. It's all a question of perspective...
Jeff
#24
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: London, United Kingdom
Programs: OW/AA, DL, UA; Marriott Titanium
Posts: 4,934
Yep, you never really "shopped" for fares as they were all similar, yep, it was more of an "event" that people dressed little or a lot nicer for, yep, they could shamelessly tout the attractiveness of their FA's, etc. etc. etc.
I'd parse it out with the "pre-9/11" days, when you knew that as you got off that plane, at the end of that jetbridge would be the big smile of a friend/spouse/SO waiting for you.
As for all the posts about the FA's, I'd suggest Google Images search:
Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight Attendants
PSA Stewardesses
etc.
...and you'll no longer wonder why their planes weren't the only things with smiles on
'
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Soon to be LEGT
Posts: 10,928
In absolute terms, yes there are billions of people that haven't flown, just as (probably most of the same billions) don't have a cell phone, or a personal computer. However, in relative terms, I don't know how you can deny that so many more people have flown. Common sense just says that. I wouldn't be surprised if total air passengers divided by country or world population doesn't show this percentage increase.
Jeff
Jeff
Got that the wrong way round.
In absolute terms, more people are flying.
Relative to global population, those who fly still represent a tiny proportion.
#26
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Lahaina, Hawai'i
Programs: HA Pua. Platinum WP, PR, QF, UA, AA, DL, NW Prince Preferred
Posts: 4,786
Ummmm........you mean like when you bought a ticket on an airline, there was no question whether or not that airline would still be in business when time came to use that ticket?
#27
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: OAK
Programs: AS MVPG 100k
Posts: 3,756
Smoking was allowed much later than that - I can remember having a smoking seat on an LHR-BOS flight in 1995, but that must have been right at the end, because by the time I started flying regularly in 1997 it was all non-smk.
#28
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Circle City
Posts: 3,568
Pretty accurate, I'd say, and I'd agree with all the points the site makes about "pre-de-reg" flying."
Yep, you never really "shopped" for fares as they were all similar, yep, it was more of an "event" that people dressed little or a lot nicer for, yep, they could shamelessly tout the attractiveness of their FA's, etc. etc. etc.
Yep, you never really "shopped" for fares as they were all similar, yep, it was more of an "event" that people dressed little or a lot nicer for, yep, they could shamelessly tout the attractiveness of their FA's, etc. etc. etc.
http://www.psa-history.org/flying/stew.html
#29
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DCA
Programs: UA LT 1K, AA EXP, Bonvoy LT Titan, Avis PC, Hilton Gold
Posts: 9,644
In the days of deregulation - all tickets were paper and they had cash value. There were two tickets prices - First Class and Coach. All tickets were refundable. The holder of the ticket had the cash value.
You could walk from the airline you were booked on and go to a competing airline and hand them your paper ticket and get a new boarding pass on that airline. So if your Eastern flight was going to be delayed - you just said OK - and walk over to DL and hand them your paper ticket and off you went.
The differences between the airlines were service and food offerings. The airlines had 5 star dining and other gimmicks.
You could walk from the airline you were booked on and go to a competing airline and hand them your paper ticket and get a new boarding pass on that airline. So if your Eastern flight was going to be delayed - you just said OK - and walk over to DL and hand them your paper ticket and off you went.
The differences between the airlines were service and food offerings. The airlines had 5 star dining and other gimmicks.
#30
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: AA Lifetime PLT , BA Silver , BD RIP , HH Gold, SPG / Marriott PLT , EF Subscriber
Posts: 6,698
They were in 97% of the world,and the US although not run by the Government they were strictly controlled..and you could not have foreign ownership[Seems some things have not changed in the USA]..Now have we checked the wiring on all those American made aircraft.
There were no Free drinks on International Coach..oops still not on US Carriers..They also gave out free cigarettes..maybe as an alternative to the $500 Million The US Government now gives tobacco farmers..that is of course before they sue the cigarette companies for using the Tobacco the've just subsidised..but hey that's Porklatics.. Oh and TWA and PanAm, had geriatric FA's on most International flights. All in All things have not changed much.
There were no Free drinks on International Coach..oops still not on US Carriers..They also gave out free cigarettes..maybe as an alternative to the $500 Million The US Government now gives tobacco farmers..that is of course before they sue the cigarette companies for using the Tobacco the've just subsidised..but hey that's Porklatics.. Oh and TWA and PanAm, had geriatric FA's on most International flights. All in All things have not changed much.
Last edited by UncleDude; Apr 13, 2008 at 2:16 pm