jgoodm

Hi All,

Let me start by saying honestly this is for a friend, not for me. (I don't have kids and you will understand why I say that when you read below.)

A friend of mine with kids is traveling from the West Coast to Hawaii in a few months. He wants to bring his kid's Nanny with him. Trouble is, the Nanny entered the US legally but has over stayed her visa by many years. Given that I am the friendly travel expert, they asked me and I have no idea what they can do to be sure she won't end up getting deported. Does anyone know what they can do, if anything to get on and return on an airline?

Thanks.

Palal

Does she have a DL and not a passport? She doesn't need and ID to fly domestically, she can just say that she doesn't have it and she'll have to go through secondary security.

You should be OK with an expired visa, but YMMY.

Also, chances are that west coast airports are a bit more lax on this matter, but again YMMY

jwrhn

Your question really is what are the chances an illegal alien will get caught travelling to Hawaii and what are the chances your friend will get caught for knowingly employing an illegal alien.

The TSA wants government issued ID so a drivers license might work unless of course her name hits on one of the no fly lists they maintain.

Edit: I could be wrong but it might make some sense for the TSA to attempt to keep illigals off airplanes...

jpdx

No matter what they do, they can't be sure that she won't get caught and deported -- that's the essential downside of being an "illegal" alien. That said, the chances of getting "caught" at the airport when trying to get onto a domestic flight are slim -- TSA does not check visas (nor should they, jwrhn, as it has nothing whatsoever to do with their mission), and you can be in the US legally without a valid visa. She should have some kind of ID, with a US driver's license being preferable. Just don't do anything that would raise suspicion (like travel on an expired passport), and the odds are that the nanny will be fine.

AAaLot

She will be fine. It would be slightly better if she had an ID or Drivers License, but passports are not required for domestic travel.

cl.lurker

Not true; she has nothing to worry about. Just have her bring a DL, or a passport, and she'll be fine.

There is no passport, or visa control whatsoever for domestic flights in the US. Period.

HkCaGu

True for anything within the 50 states. However, if the trip involves driving through Border Patrol stations (e.g. San Diego County to LAX, Yuma to SAN), that's a little different.

aktchi

Presumably this is a vacation and she has to fly to Hawaii and then back? As long as she has a US issued drivers licence or equivalent state ID, she should be ok. I would rather not use passport if possible.

However, to play it absolutely safe it might be best for your friend to make alternate arrangements and for her not to fly. The trouble is always with things you couldn't have guessed. For example a sudden citizenship/visa check somewhere for reasons that have nothing to do with her but could snarl her. Or the children might say something innocently somewhere that might be overheard by someone.

Good luck. Let us know how it went.

lin821

Visa and legal status are two different animals.

As I was told by our international student office, visa is granted for entry purposes only. Meaning valid visa is required only when entering the States. If the travel plan doesn't involve exiting-then-re-entering U.S., expired visa shouldn't matter. I don't think an expired visa alone is a good enough reason to deport any foreigner.

On the other hand, one has to comply with the immigration laws regulating his/her stay in the States in order to maintain the legal status. Even with a valid visa, one can lose the legal status if s/he fails to comply with the laws.

Being an international student, DL is all I need when I travel domestically. The guideline for international students is bring the passports/I-20 when travelling for more than 100(?) miles away from school, even though I've never need them when flying domestically.

The only exceptions I ever ran into were travelling/driving close/nearby Border Checkpoints. Even though our group was still in the United States, we were asked to show our passport and I-20. Since all our papers/documentation were valid/good, we didn't run into any problem.

For your friend's nanny, I would think they have to consider both her legal status and expired visa. It's very nice they are thinking about bringing the nanny to Hawaii. If they are positively certain her paper wouldn't be challenged on their way to Hawaii (or on their return trip, or for the duration of the vacation), then be my guest. However, if they can't take the risk, they better plan a nanny-less trip to Hawaii.

cja

One need not have a valid visa to travel domestically. All she will need is a government issued ID which confirms who she is. If the nanny does not have a driver's license, a government issued ID such as the ones provided by her home counry will suffice; or in the worst case, her passport will do. As one will recall, when we go through security or at check-in, what they check is that the name matches the ticket, and the ID matches your face, and that is it. No checks are made about once legal presence as this is a domestic flight.

aktchi

Having thought some more and discussed with a few people whose opinion I have reasons to respect, I'd say this considering everything and risk/benefit ratio. If I were your friend, personally I'd leave her home. As I am not, they can chance it if and only if she has a US drivers license, ie, can blend in with the ID-showing crowd. She should not travel if she does not have a drivers license, because then she stands out, even if the ID is valid. She should certainly not use her passport as ID, which flags her as a alien from Mexico.

jgoodm

Thanks for all the responses guys/gals. I believe she is not from Mexico but that is neither here or there. Being in California, I thought you could not get a drivers license or ID from the State unless you were here legally... Is that wrong?

Thanks.

aktchi

Your original question was "what they can do to be sure she won't end up getting deported?" The answer is, stay home. Less sure but still good enough: fly only with a drivers license. No DL, don't go!

To answer your question about how she could get DL, she could have gotten it just as she got entry into the country: when she was legal. DL being a sufficient ID on its own will probably keep renewing after that. Your friend should know if she has DL or not.

Also, do not pack anything in the bags that would invite any scrutiny. It doesn't matter that those things are unrelated to immigration and visa. Any question leads to every other question.

Notice that I am only recommending that if she has DL she should use it as ID. I am not suggesting that she drive. In fact she should not. Ideally, she should not even be a passenger in a car, when possible take the bus instead. Even a minor accident, being stopped for any reason, or being a passenger in such cars, are all excellent ways to risk slipping into immigration troubles.

FlyerBeek

I'm not convinced I agree with your logic.

A valid U.S. visa = valid status. As I understand it, the passport stamp is effectively voided the second (or day, I suppose) a visa is overstayed. Without having aquired an extension of permission to remain, the individual's status is no longer valid. Certainly, as you state, readmission is no longer possible. But also the overstay is a crime that could result in deportation in and of itself.

You might not "think" an expired visa is a "good enough" reason for deportation, but that's not the law or the issue at hand here.

Now, of course, this must be weighed by the odds of getting caught (which is pretty much zero in the OP's scenario). But the consequences are certainly there.

-FlyerBeek

aktchi

Let me try to explain what Lin821 perhaps meant...

Let's say a foreign student comes to study in a five year PhD program. He may be given a single entry visa valid for only 90 days (I don't know if these numbers are realistic but this is just an example). So, he has 90 days to enter the US.

Once he enters, his visa has been used up and is not good any longer. However, INS would give him "permission to stay" typically for one year. Next year, he can show his academic progress and get another year's extention. And so on. Eventually he may even get job training or a real job by applying for appropriate permission. And all this time he is perfectly legal without a currently valid "visa". However, if he leaves the US at any time, he'd need to get another visa at the embassy to re-enter the country.

Of course, if the original embassy had been in good mood, his original visa might have been "multiple-entry" and for five years. Then he could have gone in and out at will without getting another visa, only needing some paper from his school verifying he is still doing what the visa was for (ie, studying in their program).

In this very real sense, visa is the permission to enter the US and you get it from a US embassy/consulate abroad. Permission to stay/work in the US is different and you get it from the INS or whatever their new acronym is, either at the airport or some other office inside the US.