It's a tough nut to crack. Another reason I thought about is laid at the airline's feet. They have no extra capacity built into the system. If a plane breaks or it delayed, there's no 'spare' plane to plug in and fill the hole. So the ripple is felt system-wide. To include customer service because there are less CS agents to deal with the increased displaced passengers who get mad when they can't get resolution to their problem caused by the delays because the airlines want to get out of the red.... It's a bizarre self-licking ice cream cone.

that statement is genius!!!!

Again, though, it's all about the SHORT MONEY with airlines! Having backup would cost less in the end, but NOoooooooOOOOOoooOoOoOO!

Over the past year, I have flown NW twice to Asia. Once SEA-NRT-SIN, another time SEA-NRT-PEK. Both times, the FAs from SEA-NRT were typical of my domestic experience. Not rude or anything, but just indifferent. They look like they would rather be somewhere else, doing something else.

Leaving Tokyo, the Asian FAs took over, and they just seem more caring and love their jobs more. They took care of my requests with a smile and made me feel welcomed and valued.

Again, this is just one airline (NW) throughout the entire trips. Why the big difference?

The problem goes back to that there is still way too much unprofitable capacity in the system. Even if bare bones Skybus flies you from CMH to FLL for $80 one way it losses money on you, buying a few diet cokes and a tube of sun tanning lotion notwithstanding. And while many FTs may loathe the Ma and Pa Kettle crowd who muck up the system (like standing at the security checkpoint looking totally clueless to the world), you can't blame them for the cheap fares. To all of those FTs that want to castrate those of us flying on the cheap (I fly about 75,000 miles a year always on AA's web fares), if you need tiolet paper and you go into your nearest grocery store and see that Charman is on sale, do you think "no I should not by this, the grocery chain will lose money on me."

The downside of cheap fares is lousy service along with pay cuts and extra job stress that leaves airline personnel often haggard and burnout. When a 757 full of paxs are displaced and there is no place to put these paxs for days, and this is occuring time and time again, what can you expect from GAs tired of fighting a losing battle (like the war in Iraq).

The solution would be an industry that is built on profitable capacity. But given the ongoing state of this business, this will not be happening anytime soon. And as much as Americans want to get on CNN and b..h about their terrible experience, they don't seem willing to stop flying until it the system gets better.

And of course, there are severe issues with FAA (ATC) that are complicating the problem even more.

Nope, the problem goes back to the unions. If you suck at your job, you should get fired. If you're really good at your job, you should get a raise - or a promotion. You shouldn't just get paid more (or less) because of the terms of some contract. Where is the motivation to be really good at your job?

If you provide lousy customer service, you should find another job. Why is that so hard for people to get? Do we really think that we are "entitled" to have a job - even if we hate it and cause misery for the people around us?

While yes I agree that unions have some role in this with pay strictly based "upon time on the job" and often unflexible work rules, unions per se are not the main culprit. Just look at what is happening with most of the airlines. Spending money to upgrade F class section, improve F class food menus, and rennovate clubs/lounges. But when was the last time that an airline made an announcement about making major upgrades to Y. If the airlines were charging fares that covered their operating costs because capacity allowed them so, there would be improvements being made.

And yes there are some exceptions. WN is all coach and has remained fairly steady when it comes to customer service and is unionized (albeit many hard core FF dismiss WN's product as inferior), B6, the Valentine Days debacle not withstanding, tries to deliver a consistent product, and the new VX at least for now appears to be creating a new level of service in this industry.

I think that the reason service at legacies and some lccs is so bad is because employees get a cue from management that those paxs traveling in Y are just expendable commodity with no real value to the bottom line, and to a certain extent, I think that airline management looks at Y paxs this way. And the ground employees are often thrown in to hopeless situations, again like telling a 100+ passengers on a displaced 757 flight that it will be 2-3 days before they can them onto another flight. Would you want to be the one standing behind that podium getting screamed at by 100 plus hysterical people.

>like telling a 100+ passengers on a displaced
>757 flight that it will be 2-3 days before they
>can them onto another flight

This got me to wondering... Is this something you can purchase insurance for? i.e. if WhizBangAir has one flight per day in and out of HNL and it goes mechanical, do any insurers sell packages that would get you home on another carrier, as opposed to waiting 2-3 days until WhizBang has the required capacity to get you home?

And as the next step, could WhizBang sell that insurance as part of the ticketing process?

I realize if four feet of snow shut down an airport, then no one would have capacity, but it might help...

Cheers,
Geoff Glave
Vancouver, Canada

great idea! I posted your genius idea here:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showt...=1#post8281297

Very interesting thread with especially thoughtful comments. I thnk that, as in plane crashes, there are several forces at work in the deteriorating state of customer service. Ascribing it to one cause (e.g. unions) is merely to shape the problem to fit an ideology. Remember, those union contracts were signed by management people who claim (and are paid accordingly) to have vastly superior knowledge of the market environment.

Poor customer service is the rule more than the exception and it occurs in many non-union environments. Low pay, failure to delegate responsibility, some corporate cultures, etc. all play roles. On the other hand, anyone who has a job dealing with the geneeral public can testify to the astounding stupidity and focus on "me" which an increasing number of people suffer from.

I have a theory which I am convinced is overlooked in the same way that dots are often not connected in other situatons. Airline employees accept, along with the vast majority of the population, two ideas which cannot be reconciled. Virtually everyone applauds efforts by businesses to be "lean and mean", to take steps to be competitive, and, especially, to insure that numbers are produced to affect short term stock prices. We are all happy to see the value of our 401k's and other investments go up and up as a result of these stringent policies by corporate executives. Yet, we don't seem to see that these policies produce effects which distress us so much when we encounter them in our daily lives.

Notice how a company's stock price goes up when layoffs are announced. We applaud the increased stock price and what it means for our investments, but we don't see that (aside from the folks who lost their jobs), there must be a negative morale effect on the surviving coworkers. In the same way, the fact that we no longer get meals on most flights means that some invstors are seeing increased profits in their own portfolios. Perversely, some airline emplyees have a more comfortable retirement because their colleagues are laid off or have benefits reduced.

Some companies, with enlightened management, seem to be able to juggle this inherent contradiction better than most. An increasing majority however focus on the next quarter and most of us suffer as a result.

Lastly, I find it interesting that the countries with whom we supposedly must compete (leaving aside the Third World in textiles, etc.) are those which seem to be able to have vastly more enlightened and "liberal" employee benefits.

customer service has been just plain dead in the USA for a while.

and it seems commercial airlines, even F products in countries where service is normally very high, can routinely have problems regardless.

Blame the worker
 

When an agent is rude, she is at fault, not the airline. Her moral character is low.

Part of the problem is that giving good service requires tack, good people skills, and knowing all those codes while typing the keyboard for what seems to be hours (not quite!) at the ticket counter. Paying those people more will not help but it could attract better replacements when the old agents quit. They are liable not to quit because no where would they be able to find better salaries (if raised to attract new talent) and still allow bad service.

Finding good people to work for you is difficult. It's much harder when you have to find thousands of those people.

Singapore Airlines' stewardesses don't get paid much but many of them give good service. I wonder why? Good work ethic?

Singapore Airlines comes from a whole different culture. Plus Singapore is a benevolent dictatorship. But they also happen to have one of the classiest airlines out there and I am certain those who work on board are treated as such. It's like being a waiter at a black tie establishment vs. working for Joe's Burger Shop on the boardwalk in seedy Atlantic City, NJ.

Some people are just fine working for Joe's burgers, but I bet that airline employee with the low morale sometimes has this attitude because he or she was told she'd be working for a place like Singapore Airlines when in fact it was a failing small minded business stuck in the past. Sure some airline employees are the problem but where do you think they learn to be this way? I have known people who work as CSRs. Many gave up long ago on trying to actually help people because the places they work do not empower them to do so. We feel as though we should be empowered to some extent in this country. To work at today's airlines instantly shuts that off within us and it makes us bitter. In places like Singapore, working for an airline--especially one that happens to be very good--is enlightening, empowering and downright fantastic, if not high-end in appearance to others. That's kind of like it was to work for one here back in say, 1960 or so. I dunno. It just seems like our system is beginning to fail and people who work there know it too.

culture and society play a huge part. in the USA right now it seems like culture and society say "do whatever the heck you want, take no responsibility for anything, nothing is your fault" not exactly good concepts for employees in any field where they would interact with customers.

from a very shall we say "quick/cursory" perspective, it seems like many countries with imperial traditions in addition to any cultural/historical components can do very well with regards to customer service. and im not talking about what some call "formal/stuffy" im saying in general, because if youre capable of good service, you can do it either way - formal or invisible.

exactly, except id say its way past the beginning. IMHO the down slope started in the 60s.

I'll argue for people who want to join a union here. They (unions) provide a voice for people who don't have any say in the organisation. Unions were/are formed in response to poor management. As has been mentioned here when mgt is progressive and supports their workers then there is less need for unions.

My theory is that poor CS is due to mgt not allowing people to work as hard as they can. How many times have you been the victim of a CS who refuses to do anything other than follow the company line?

Dare I suggest that the CS person has previously tried to do the right thing and been excessively penalised/abused by their mgt and now understands that under no circumstances are they to deviate from the company guide under threat of more abuse possibly even dismissal.

It is learned helplessness and encouraged by mgt because they can more easily control their staff rather than look after their customers.

Even worse is the poor CS person who tries to help and makes a mistake. If that mistake is treated as the worst thing on earth and punished rather than treated as a learning experience (ie do it once and learn from it) rather than an opportunity for mgt to demonstrate their power to chastise and punish, then the CS has learnt that trying is bad and will only be met with abuse from mgt with real and ongoing consequences rather than abuse from pax with no ongoing consequences.

http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=729053

unions may have been necessary and great originally (hazardous conditions, child labor, etc) but IMHO you cannot have any less contempt for them than "evil corporations" nowadays, for example >

http://unionfacts.com/