joelacpa

Travel tip note to self..

If my rental car has a problem and it could be construed to be my fault, try to get it fixed myself before reporting it...

I have been had in the past by rental companies who use this sort of situation as a profit center.

RickR

Sorry about the bad spot all around. Some observations:

• The clause sounds quite enforceable - but also is suspicious if they singled out this particular issue. Did they know the clutch is a likely problem? Trying to get out will likely require a local lawyer. Good luck on that.
• Not having low range must have at least contributed to the problem. This defect should be taken into account in assigning responsibility for costs.
• Given the high mileage on an SUV it does seem likely that the clutch had been replaced. With the vehicles undoubted rough use I would not expect a clutch to last 250KKm (~150Kmi.). If it was recently replaced that seems appropriate.
• HOWEVER - especially with a fairly new clutch, it is hard to see how simply getting going in the sand will burn out a clutch - on what should be a robust vehicle. High range low and reverse gears with some rocking to get going should get it out and on its way if it is going to at all. (note to all: recall the old trick of letting some air out of the tires to improve traction/floatation.)
• SO - it seems to me that either: a) the clutch was overdue for replacmeent and a bit of sand slogging put it over the edge that it was on anyway; or, b) the use of the clutch was so extreme - slipping all the time, even while rolling - that even a new clutch would be burned. I believe this would be hard to do.
• Thus - you should recall just how badly the clutch was treated and to what degree the fault may be with the driver. I would ask for receipts on the prior clutch replacement if you doubt you caused over 30% or the problem since it seems at least likely the clutch was already shot.

Also, seems in the circumstances the charges are not excessive - although a lot of money and hassle for what should have been a fun time.

robyng

As a lawyer - all I can say is read the rental contract and then consult with a lawyer in Australia - or one who knows about the law in Australia (some clauses in your contract may be unforceable for various reasons - only a lawyer versed in the law of Australia would know). Also look at your own auto policy. It might cover you.

As a traveler - I have my own cautionary tale to add. We went to Costa Rica many years ago and arranged to rent a 4 WD vehicle (from a major company - I think it was Hertz). We planned to drive the vehicle from San Jose to the Pacific Coast along the main road - a fair part of which wasn't paved then. When the vehicle arrived at our hotel in San Jose - it was a semi-wreck. The contract said all bets were off if we drove off paved roads (which happens to apply to a lot of main roads in Costa Rica). In addition - our liability insurance was limited to about $8000 American dollars.

My husband and I took one look at this - and decided to hire a driver. He cost a bit more than the rental car - but not much. It was a rocky drive (rocks - mud - you name it - we drove through it) - and he dropped us off. Agreed to pick us up in 3 days. We met him at a restaurant near our hotel the next day. Something in his car had been wrecked by the drive - and he was having his car repaired and taking a vacation while waiting to take us back to San Jose.

Moral of the story. Don't rent a car to drive on so-called roads you'd never dream of driving on if they were in your home town. We have beaches you can drive on here in north Florida. I am sure they keep a lot of auto repair people in business.

Inquire about your auto insurance (especially liability coverage). A normal US auto policy will cover your driving in the US and Canada and that's about it. Otherwise - you are at the mercy of the rental agency. If you want the insurance coverage you are used to having at home - you will need to purchase a supplemental auto policy. When we drove a lot in western Europe in the 80's and 90's - we would buy a one month policy from AIG (minimum policy period). Cost about $150-200. Of course - there are a lot of places where no company will write insurance for you (which is most of the world outside of western Europe and perhaps a few first world countries elsewhere). If you can't buy a supplemental auto policy - that is a good hint that you should hire a reputable car/driver in the country you plan to visit.

Finally - some drivers in some parts of the world (including parts of the US) act as if their roads are a ride in Disneyworld. That is - no matter what you do - you can't get hurt. That is false and stupid. If you're in any car in any country where a driver is doing something stupid - speak up. And if the driver persists in behavior which threatens your life (that has happened to us on occasion) - get out of the vehicle. And always wear your seatbelt (the worst accident we've ever been in was in New York City - we were in a taxi - and I am glad we were wearing our seatbelts). Robyn

Groundfeeder

tyro? What does that mean?
Respectfully means Beginner or novice.

oldpenny16

Thank you!

number_6

I'm sure that company has prior experience with clutches burning out, hence the clause in the contract. With that clause present, the onus falls on you to prove that it is unreasonable or not applicable. You can try negotiating with the company, particularly if your contract doesn't specify recovery costs. My feeling is that it would be easier to reduce the recovery cost than the clutch repair. But VISA probably won't touch this as a disputed charge, so you are in the unenviable position of having paid first and then trying to negotiate a refund.

You could try contacting the NRMA (auto association in australia), they might be able to provide some assistance and advice, or at least indicate if this kind of contract and charges is typical.
http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/

Gargoyle

I drove a Mitusubishi Montero for 10 years in Chicago. (note that the potholes can be as rough as any country road). Replaced the clutch 3 times in 110,000 miles (177k kilometers).

That clause in their contract is probably something they invoke often. That way they can stick their customers for their costs of doing business.

robyng

One thing I forgot to mention is the OP should check the fine print on all his credit cards. Some provide coverage for auto claims not covered by auto insurance. Robyn

Deimos

Surely only the card used for the rental would be relevant to this particular case right? In this case the German LH Visa.

Ex Amex Card

Rule number 1. Admit NOTHING. Deny EVERYTHING. Make counter accusations.

Dispute the transaction with your card issuer, refuse to pay it. Do everything in writing, recorded delivery so you can prove you sent the letter.

If the card issuer offers insurance cover then make a claim under that policy and do not negotiate with the hire firm.

Quite aside from all that, the sums are way too high. A vehicle of that age and condition wouldn't be worth anywhere near AU$5000, let alone a clutch job costing $2000. They are taking you for a ride.

biggestbopper

Of course they are trying to take him for a ride. That is the nature of car rental companies (pun intended).

Puns aside, many car rental companies have determined that the money is not in renting, but in "recovering" for damages to their vehicles that may or may not have actually been incurred. Many renters will not fight such claims and so the companies make money.

Anybody know what the chargeback law is in Germany?

Ty

Disclaimer: Note this is intended only to provide a summary and general overview on matters of interest. It is not intended to be comprehensive nor does it constitute legal advice!

Ouch, 5K for a clutch seems pretty excessive, I would have thought parts/labour it would be around a grand or so!

Without reading the whole contract and based on what you've said, Unfortunately the caselaw doesn't appear to be on your side, cases like Thorton v Shoe Lane Parking and Interphoto Picture Library v Stiletto Visual Programmes would appear to support the idea that a particularly onerous terms would need to be highlighted.

The current position on this in Australia is expressed in Toll (FGCT) v Alphapharm -- is essentially that even if a contract has particularly onerous terms, if the contract is signed then these onerous terms don't have to be highlighted.

Your best bets for trying to trump a contract would be statute, the statute that might help would be the Trade Practices Act (CTH).

For the TPA to apply the rental agency would have to be a corporation (due to a constitutional limitation). There is a good summary of some of the TPA provisions at this website.

Just off the top of my head, a few arguments that could be made would be that the rental breaches an implied term that the good be fit for purpose s71 TPA (there might also be a Queensland Sale of Goods Act s17(a) argument).

A bit of a longshot but an argument could be made under the equitable doctrine of unconscionable conduct. --- Essentially if you can show that you were under a special disability, and the rental agency knew of the disability and took advantage of it to their benefit. (Language, and a lack of understanding could be considered a special disability)

Hopefully that will give you a few starting points, you might also want to check out Fair Trading QLD.

Good luck, i'd advise talking to a solicitor to see what they think..

SmilingBoy

Thanks for your advice. A service at http://www.redbookasiapacific.com/au...p?key=NISS98BQ puts the 1998 Nissan Patrol at a range of $12,600-$14,500, albeit at a lower mileage and, probably, better condition. So even in a bad condition, it doesn't seem like it wouldn't be worth it to repair the car.

However, all the clutch replacements I have seen mentioned so far in the internet seem to be in the range of at most AUD 1,000 (including parts and labour). The quote for repair is for the replacement of the clutch assembly and fly-wheel - why would the fly-wheel need to be replaced?

SmilingBoy.

biggestbopper

TY's advice appears to be well-informed and excellent. ^ But, reading the thread, it is still unclear as to what law would apply. For example, in the US, Federal and state credit card law would probably trump say, Australian law, in determining what can be properly charged to OP's credit card. Assuming the matter went to Court which is probably something best to avoid, if possible.

Apparently, OP used a German based credit card card, although that is not completely clear. Other issues: what is OP's billing address-what country. And what is law of that country on billing disputes?

SmilingBoy

Yes, I used a German card, with a billing address in Belgium. The card has a car insurance, but the fine print seems to suggest it may not apply in my case. I will try in any case.

SmilingBoy.