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is it true that the original Pan Am is not completely dead yet?

is it true that the original Pan Am is not completely dead yet?

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Old Aug 18, 06, 1:24 am
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pizzamiles
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is it true that the original Pan Am is not completely dead yet?

During my drive home this afternoon, I heard something on the radio about the original Pan Am.(the one that was killed by Delta) It seems like they're finally getting the 20 or 30 million dollar settlement from the government of Libya. When they forward this money to the creditors, it will really spell the end of Pan Am.

Does anybody have any info on this?

Thanks!

Edit: all I found was this Reuters link:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...archived=False

Last edited by pizzamiles; Aug 18, 06 at 1:30 am
 
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Old Aug 18, 06, 1:27 am
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This company bought the name

http://www.flypanam.com/

but I don't think they are technically the original corporation.
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Old Aug 18, 06, 1:54 am
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Originally Posted by pizzamiles
During my drive home this afternoon, I heard something on the radio about the original Pan Am.(the one that was killed by Delta) It seems like they're finally getting the 20 or 30 million dollar settlement from the government of Libya. When they forward this money to the creditors, it will really spell the end of Pan Am.

Does anybody have any info on this?

Thanks!

Edit: all I found was this Reuters link:

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...archived=False
I think it's unfair to say that Delta killed Pan Am!! There's a stronger argument to be made that Pan Am committed suicide.

Pan Am really is dead. Some of its assets live on, but the airline is dead. Sure the creditors will benefit from a settlement, but not Pan Am.
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Old Aug 18, 06, 2:13 am
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Yes this is the final liquidation of the original Pan Am, which went out of business in 1991. Reduced to a few lawyers etc since then as long as there was money to collect and distribute.

The name has turned up again more than once but this is the original Pan Am company selling the rights to the name without selling the whole company. Not common but this happens elsewhere, like the Rolls Royce brand for cars, logo and all, ending up with quite a different company from the original which still does aircraft engines.

Pan Am had 40 years of brilliant management while Juan Trippe was in charge (1927-67), and then 25 years of steady decline (1967-91). Great at expansion, handling the elite of world travellers, staying ahead of the field and political manoeuvring, not so good once others managed to catch up and the mass market came along. I really would not say that Delta killed them at all, before the final demise these two had less competition than many others. Delta bought a lot of Pan Am's assets at the end (JFK terminal, European routes) so probably helped to stave of the final day.
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Old Aug 18, 06, 2:29 am
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Pan Am had 40 years of brilliant management while Juan Trippe was in charge (1927-67), and then 25 years of steady decline (1967-91). Great at expansion, handling the elite of world travellers, staying ahead of the field and political manoeuvring, not so good once others managed to catch up and the mass market came along.
THOSE WERE THE DAYS MY FRIEND, WE THOUGHT THEY'D NEVER END WE'D SING AND DANCE FOR EVER AND A DAY WE'D LIVE THE LIFE WE'D CHOOSE WE'D FIGHT AND NEVER LOSE FOR WE WERE YOUNG AND SURE TO HAVE OUR WAY......LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.
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Old Aug 18, 06, 7:48 am
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As an ex-shareholder of this company I can assure you it is no more.
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Old Aug 18, 06, 7:57 am
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Originally Posted by Pickles
THOSE WERE THE DAYS MY FRIEND, WE THOUGHT THEY'D NEVER END WE'D SING AND DANCE FOR EVER AND A DAY WE'D LIVE THE LIFE WE'D CHOOSE WE'D FIGHT AND NEVER LOSE FOR WE WERE YOUNG AND SURE TO HAVE OUR WAY......LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA LA.


Never having gotten the chance to fly Pan Am is one of two things I regret with regard to aviation. The other involves a certain Anglo-French jet...
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Old Aug 18, 06, 8:03 am
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Originally Posted by alex0683de
The other involves a certain Anglo-French jet...
The Airbus 319?
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Old Aug 18, 06, 8:22 am
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Originally Posted by MatthewClement
The Airbus 319?
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Old Aug 18, 06, 9:12 am
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The last time I was there, PanAm lived on in the airline memorabilia store at ORD. Exit T3 through the tunnel to the Hilton; it's on the right directly opposite where you'd turn left to enter the hotel.

Eastern, Northeast and a whole bunch of others live(d) on there, too. Great way for airline freaks like many FTers to spend some time during a connection if you don't mind re-entering through security again, or (e.g., international arrival to domestic departure) you have to anyway.
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Old Aug 18, 06, 9:18 am
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Many different companies have bought and sold the Pan Am name and/or logo since 1991, but they are not the original airline!

I only got to fly the original Pan Am once, and that was a red-eye in F! (This was back in the old days when F was really something! I only wish it was a daytime F flight! )
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Old Aug 18, 06, 11:12 am
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You look at how the current owner is misusing the Pan Am brand now, and remember what it used to stand for (pre-1970 or so), and it's positively heartbreaking.
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Old Aug 18, 06, 11:28 am
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Originally Posted by BearX220
You look at how the current owner is misusing the Pan Am brand now, and remember what it used to stand for (pre-1970 or so), and it's positively heartbreaking.
What do you expect after the PanAm brand was bought by a railway? For those who don't know, now it is a small regional airline mostly flying from 3rd-string airports to 3rd-string casinos. Nothing is left of the original PanAm, not even its dignity.

As for what killed PanAm, that is well documented and not too much in doubt....it was bad management. Rather ironically PanAm initiiated several industry trends which worked to destroy the corporation (but were good for aviation and their competitors).
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Old Aug 18, 06, 11:59 am
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I thought that the Lockerbie Bombing killed Pan Am. Is that too simplistic? I'm actually not too far from where it came down, it really was a terrible thing and to think that in the USA some think terrorism was not an issue before the twin towers came down!
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Old Aug 18, 06, 12:15 pm
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Originally Posted by joseph-GLA
I thought that the Lockerbie Bombing killed Pan Am. Is that too simplistic?
Lockerbie (December 1988) was about the tenth big spike in PA's coffin, and you could argue that it was the final lethal blow, but PA actually died from...

** Overcapacity (flooding routes with 747s during the '70s recession and the first oil shock)
** Lack of domestic feeder system (until deregulation all PA routes were international)
** Dumb purchase of National Airlines, post-deregulation, to acquire a domestic network when they could have just built their own
** Dumb fleet management (at one point they had 747s, DC10s, L1011s and A310s all on transats)
** Dumb route selloffs (they sold the Pacific to UA in the 1980s, which was a huge moneymaker, and held onto the north Atlantic for sentimental reasons despite terrible margins and crazy competition)
** Dumb Heathrow selloff
** Constant marketplace pressure they didn't know how to respond to

The airline was never a success in the post-deregulation world -- its glory days were mainly due to Juan Trippe's ability to butter up the world's governments -- but it was in trouble long before deregulation in 1977. An economist might argue that the 747 ultimately killed PA.
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