When you are supposed to turn off electronics on a flight
 

There seems to be different times when flight attendants say to turn off electronics on flights. From what I understand, it should be done just before final approach. Many times, the FA's ask that it be done on initial descent. Can someone fill me on what the rule is so I can know if I should be complaining? Thanks.

No electronics under 10,000 ft.

So, if you're flying into DEN, SLC or other "high-altitude" airports, it's almost like only before final approach; but if you're landing at a sea-level airport, and/or your plane is put onto a hold under 10,000 ft, it'll seem like forever.

It's different for different airlines.

I would respectfully suggest that you assume that the cabin crew (a) know how to do their jobs; and (b) have no interest in irritating you just for the sheer hell of it. If you're told by the cabin crew to do something, complaining about it starts from the premise that at least one of those two is missing.

So the 10k feet thing is from sea level? When you fly over Denver you're actually a mile lower to the ground then you would be in say Miami?

Actually, Denver is just a mile closer to you... ;)

Globalizer,

I expect the companies to make and follow their policy. No doubt the cabin crew knows what they're doing, but I have flown into the same airport on the same airline on equally uneventful clear days and have had to shut down at different times. This eats into my productivity and I do plan to hold people/companies accountable to their own policies. That being said, my complaining would be in the form of a letter to the airline each time this happens and not a direct complaint to the cabin crew. The 10k limit when you take off is always enforced clearly. Once you hit 10k feet, you can use any electronic device. The same is not being done for the descent part.

When you are told to

Yes, that's why I am in the camp that think these rules are arbitrary and not based on scientific facts.

If the FAA runs the airport in Lhasa, China or some other ones over 10,000 ft, then you don't have to turn off electronics at all.

As for following rules or not, I usually fly Continental, and on most if not all flights, the FAs do follow this closely. At 10,000ft during the descend (easy to track on the widebodies with personal screens and Airshow), the cockpit crew ring a tone, and then almost immediately, I'll hear the announcement from the FA about final descend, electronics, blah blah blah...

Alan,

Are you a lawyer? I guess I'll have to change the question to when should the FA's be telling people to turn electronics off. :rolleyes:

Even if there were consistent application by one airline of its policies, your working time aloft would still be as much affected by other flight time differences - different equipment, different routings, en route holds, etc. And the total time available for working is also subject to all the variations of air travel - gate delays, taxi time, queuing etc., which all also eat into the time that you have to work.

So I find it difficult to believe that your productivity is so critically dependent on that extra 5 or 10 minutes of time on board the aircraft that this is an issue worth complaining about, but I suspect that we are digressing.

At any rate, it sounds like the question that you really want to ask is "What is the rule on airline X?" As I say, different airlines have different rules.

And this has what to do with the question?

depends on the airline security measures

Globalizer,

It is only you that is digressing. Being a rational human being and not a complete idiot I understand that there are many things involved in air travel. My post here isn't why doens't my plane always leave at the same time or why does the plane not go to the same gate all of the time. It is why do airlines have inconsistent times, even amongst themselves, as to when electronics should be turned off. I'm perfectly aware that my working time in flight will vary. Are you just posting this garbage in this thread to make yourself seem important or something?

I'm perfectly able to deal with all of the variations that air travel brings along. That being said there are rules and guidelines that go along with it. Almost every FF on this site knows them and expects them to be carried out. Why should this rule be any different just because some FA's arbitrarily like to get people to turn off their electronics earlier than need be for no good reason.

I'm not sure that complaining is necessary, even if it is done before it is 'supposed' to be done.

Electronics should be powered off for 'critical' phases of flight - that is, the time when most accidents and incidents tend to occur, and the time when you and your crew should be prepared for those accidents and incidents should they occur. It may vary from airline to airline, but where I work we've set the magic number at 10,000 feet.

But sometimes there are special circumstances that have us doing it a little earlier or even a little later. If the flight deck has been warned that the approach may be very turbulent (and dangerous for us to be up, for galleys to be unsecured), then we may prepare the cabin a little earlier than usual - even if it turns out that we're spared the bumpy ride. Or if the approach pattern has us dropping below 10,000 very early or holding for quite a while before landing, the pilots occasionally wait to give us the 'final approach' signal.

In any case, the wisest thing to do would be to just turn them off when you are asked to do so. You can always ask your FA's about their policies and methods without accusing them of anything nefarious - and doing so might help you understand why they are doing whatever it is they are doing.

I find it much easier simply to ignore stupid instructions (no electronics when you are hundreds of miles from landing is a stupid instruction). Admittedly that would be difficult to get away with if you are trying to use a laptop, which I don't use on a plane.

No, you're the one who thinks you and your working time are more important than obeying the instructions of the cabin crew. I'm with alanR on this - just turn it off when you're told to - but I don't expect that you will ever agree.

Disobeying instructions just because one thinks they're stupid is also evincing the attitude that one knows better than the crew. Few people have the luxury of genuinely being in that position, and being a frequent passenger doesn't in itself count.

Hi, I've been lurking around FT for nearly a year, and finally have become bored/moved enough to post.

The regulation is that electronics must be powered down when below an altitude of 10,000' mean sea level. The flight deck crew gives the two or four bells signifying this altitude usually right when they're at that altitude on the climb or descent. It definitely will vary depending on the flight and the airport, because we aren't always instructed to descend below 10,000' at the same place. For instance, NY approach may instruct us to descend below 10,000' quite a distance from the airport. In the back of the aircraft, it may seem as if the "put your laptops away" call is premature on those flights because the descent happens some time before landing. On the other hand, some airports are notorious for leaving aircraft high and "slam-dunking" them in at the last minute. These aren't always the high altitude ones, either. ATL often leaves aircraft high when the weather is good, then asks them to do a steep descent into the airport. MCO does this, too. In those cases, the below 10,000' notification may come with barely enough time to put your laptop away before landing.

Why is it important? 10,000' is seen in many different FAA regulations. Passenger jet aircraft typically don't descend below that until the final stages of an approach. Below 10,000' is always a relatively critical phase of flight. There is more traffic down there, there are speed restrictions on all aircraft, and the flight deck crew is supposed to be sterile (the pilots can't talk about anything except the flying). Hence, the reason that electronics are supposed to be turned off below that altitude. If a device is going to affect an ILS needle or cause a burst of static in a headset at cruise altitude, it's not a big deal. At 4,000' in busy airspace, it is a big deal. We all know that there's only a slight chance of that happening, but it's an easily avoidable chance.

PLEASE do not squabble about high-altitude, etc. Turn it off when told as this may be when the cabin crew is to be seated....therefore a check must be done visually beforehand.

The FAA has a minimum altitude and airlines may have their own set of regulations which are MORE conservative.

Do not jeopardize the safety of your aircraft.

The FAA does not specify any altitude below which PEDs must be switched off. The regulation tasks the airline with ensuring that interference does not take place. It is up to the airline to determine how they will restrict the use of PEDs in order to comply with that rule.

It is final approach, below 10,000 ft. As a F/A, I make an announcement at initial," For those of you that are using a laptop computer, now would be a good time to start powering them down, we will be asking you to shut them off in just a few minutes", this usually works well, since it does give them time to save thier work and turn it off in time for final descent.

Upon reviewing the regs as they pertain to 121 carriers, Larry is correct and I apologize. I was thinking of 91.21, which is the applicable regulation. It states:

(a)(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, no person may operate, nor may any operator or pilot in command of an aircraft allow the operation of, any portable electronic device on any of the following U.S.-registered civil aircraft:
(1) Aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate; or
(2) Any other aircraft while it is operated under IFR.
(b) Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply to—
(1) Portable voice recorders;
(2) Hearing aids;
(3) Heart pacemakers;
(4) Electric shavers; or
(5) Any other portable electronic device that the operator of the aircraft has determined will not cause interference with the navigation or communication system of the aircraft on which it is to be used.
(c) In the case of an aircraft operated by a holder of an air carrier operating certificate or an operating certificate, the determination required by paragraph (b)(5) of this section shall be made by that operator of the aircraft on which the particular device is to be used. In the case of other aircraft, the determination may be made by the pilot in command or other operator of the aircraft.